More ACC issues...now Virginia

[Yawkey Way]

Nah.. you're just into personal insulting, and not into discussing the topic with me. Thats your thing, thats all.

I don't know you personally, so how could that be a personal insult? Are you 2 foot tall or something?

.[/QUOTE]
You did it again.. look, before you run out of stuff in your insult bag, why don't you do yourself ( and me ) a favor and just simply put me on your Ignore bin. I'm not going anywhere with you I can see, and thats fine with me too.

 

[upstater]

I don't know you personally, so how could that be a personal insult? Are you 2 foot tall or something?

.

You did it again.. look, before you run out of stuff in your insult bag, why don't you do yourself ( and me ) a favor and just simply put me on your Ignore bin. I'm not going anywhere with you I can see, and thats fine with me too.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for insulting you. Didn't realize you actually were 2 feet tall.

Because that's the only way that would be offensive.

What's the matter with you? Other than the fact you're trolling here?

 

[Yawkey Way]

Oh sure, if I called you " a troll ", and then " 2 feet tall", I 'm not insulting you.
I see. You got any other insults you'd like to get off your chest with me ? Or are you done with this ?

 

[upstater]

Oh sure, if I called you " a troll ", and then " 2 feet tall", I 'm not insulting you.
I see. You got any other insults you'd like to get off your chest with me ? Or are you done with this ?

Stop being a baby.

 

[tcf15]

Not sure if this thread is still on topic, but Rolling Stone just issued this statement regarding this story: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205

 

[Fishy]

Not sure if this thread is still on topic, but Rolling Stone just issued this statement regarding this story: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205

That is....not good.

Rolling Stone has a very, very big problem on their hands and methinks the University of Virginia and that frat will be landing on them with both feet.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

That is....not good.

Rolling Stone has a very, very big problem on their hands and methinks the University of Virginia and that frat will be landing on them with both feet.

Not sure as where there is smoke there is usually fire. Dooesn't some of the UVA's Hullabahoos male choir have some very racy lyrics? This more sound like 1) nothing I every black and while and 2) Rolling Stone is finding out the hard way that UVA's frat network includes some very powerful, connected, and well off alumni who can pull in serious legal weight.

 

[Fishy]

I think what Rolling Stone is finding is that they printed a false account.

The Washington Post attempted to fact check the story and apparently come up empty as well.

 

[ZooCougar]

Rolling Stone is a joke.

 

[upstater]

I mentioned here earlier that I had a helluva hard time believing that college students on ANY campus are so like-minded. This just seems totally wrong from my experience. I didn't doubt the rape story or any of the other stuff, but the portrayal of the students and the rape counselor seemed so very off to me.

And by the way, in email conversations with people at UVa about this, I learned that the counselor was well regarded and well respected, and that what made this story so plausible is that there is indeed a rape problem at UVa, and this is why the US gov't is investigating them. I should add that the rape song they sing is real, as is the mural. The gang-rape story was appalling.

 

[pj]

I think what Rolling Stone is finding is that they printed a false account.

The Washington Post attempted to fact check the story and apparently come up empty as well.

The dam broke on this after veteran journalist Richard Bradley pointed out shortcomings and unlikely claims in the story. http://www.richardbradley.net/shotsinthedark/

Rumor has it that UVa knows what incident provided the underlying basis in the story, and there were many falsehoods and exaggerations in the story. There may not have been any criminal activity at all; and the rumors are that the purported victim "Jackie" declined to cooperate with a criminal investigation, and no witnesses alleged criminal activity, so there was no basis for police involvement.

Read the first paragraph of this WaPo story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...a5f7d2-7c91-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html

 

[upstater]

The dam broke on this after veteran journalist Richard Bradley pointed out shortcomings and unlikely claims in the story. http://www.richardbradley.net/shotsinthedark/

Rumor has it that UVa knows what incident provided the underlying basis in the story, and there were many falsehoods and exaggerations in the story. There may not have been any criminal activity at all; and the rumors are that the purported victim "Jackie" declined to cooperate with a criminal investigation, and no witnesses alleged criminal activity, so there was no basis for police involvement.

Read the first paragraph of this WaPo story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...a5f7d2-7c91-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html

On the one hand, he talks about the shards of glass. I think he makes a good point there. There should have been signs.

One the other hand, he seems fairly incredulous that a gang-rape could have occurred. Which seems strange on the face of it.

Obviously the reporter should have contacted her so-called friends if only to hear them say they are not friends with her anymore.

 

[MASSconn]

Let's not forget that Rolling Stone made the Boston Bomber look like a sex symbol. Hopefully they get destroyed over this.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

That is....not good.

Rolling Stone has a very, very big problem on their hands and methinks the University of Virginia and that frat will be landing on them with both feet.

The story didn't sound right from the start. This idea that an entire fraternity at a school like UVa was engaging in premeditated roofie attacks on women sounded a little far fetched, which is why I stayed out of this thread before. It would be difficult to keep something like that quiet for a month, much less forever.

There is no way for Rolling Stone to un-ring that bell.

I also think that rape survivors should have the right to punch this Jackie hag in the face, because this story just made it tougher to prove real s e x ual assaults.

 

[pj]

One the other hand, he seems fairly incredulous that a gang-rape could have occurred. Which seems strange on the face of it.

Why strange? From a story at Slate, http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...lling_stone_writer_talk_to_the_alleged.2.html:

Caitlin Flanagan, who did an investigation into bad behavior at fraternities for the Atlantic, emailed us:

In all my time studying fraternity rapes for my own essay, I didn’t come across a single report of anything like this. I did find reports of women who were raped by multiple men on one night—but those always involved incapacitation, either by alcohol or a drugged drink. And I did also find accounts of violent, push-down rape of the kind in the essay—but those were always by one member, not a bunch of members. (In fact, many of that kind—now that I think about it—were committed by non-members, or by visiting former members). But a planned Kavanaughed, without alcohol or drugs, and keyed to initiation—I have never seen a case like that. Nor have I seen penetration with a foreign object—I’ve seen plenty of that committed by brothers to pledges as hazing, but I haven’t seen it in sexual assault cases. I’m sure it’s happened, but again—as part of a ritualized Kavanaughed ... Never anything like it.​

This story was unprecedented -- there is no recorded instance of anything like it happening in US history.

Gang rapes on college campuses do occur, but they are perpetrated by off-campus criminals, not students. Like this from Johns Hopkins. http://abc7.com/news/2-charged-with-rape-at-johns-hopkins-frat-house/421092/

 

[upstater]

Why strange? From a story at Slate, http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...lling_stone_writer_talk_to_the_alleged.2.html:

Caitlin Flanagan, who did an investigation into bad behavior at fraternities for the Atlantic, emailed us:

In all my time studying fraternity rapes for my own essay, I didn’t come across a single report of anything like this. I did find reports of women who were raped by multiple men on one night—but those always involved incapacitation, either by alcohol or a drugged drink. And I did also find accounts of violent, push-down rape of the kind in the essay—but those were always by one member, not a bunch of members. (In fact, many of that kind—now that I think about it—were committed by non-members, or by visiting former members). But a planned Kavanaughed, without alcohol or drugs, and keyed to initiation—I have never seen a case like that. Nor have I seen penetration with a foreign object—I’ve seen plenty of that committed by brothers to pledges as hazing, but I haven’t seen it in s e xual assault cases. I’m sure it’s happened, but again—as part of a ritualized Kavanaughed ... Never anything like it.​

This story was unprecedented -- there is no recorded instance of anything like it happening in US history.

As I said, he had a great case about individual details like the glass shards or some of other stuff seemed questionable, but gang-rapes in this fashion obviously occur. And for initiation too. I've hear dof them before. People are in jail for them. The reporter at the Atlantic is not covering herself in glory here either.

It's pretty simply to do a google search and uncover hundreds of articles on it within seconds. Like this one: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/pre-teens-gang-raped-in-initiation-rites-197304.html

 

[pj]

As I said, he had a great case about individual details like the glass shards or some of other stuff seemed questionable, but gang-rapes in this fashion obviously occur. And for initiation too. I've hear dof them before. People are in jail for them. The reporter at the Atlantic is not covering herself in glory here either.

It's pretty simply to do a google search and uncover hundreds of articles on it within seconds. Like this one: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/pre-teens-gang-raped-in-initiation-rites-197304.html

I wasn't talking about European stories of Pakistani Muslim sex trafficking gangs kidnapping and "initiating" lonely, uncared for 11 year olds into sex slavery by providing fake boyfriends. I was talking about gang rapes on US college campuses. I have googled it and apart from date rape/intoxication/drugged type rapes, there are no such stories in which violent gang rapes were perpetrated by students. There are other stories where gang rapes were perpetrated by non-students, but none by students.

 

[upstater]

I wasn't talking about European stories of Pakistani Muslim s e x trafficking gangs kidnapping and "initiating" lonely, uncared for 11 year olds into s e x slavery by providing fake boyfriends. I was talking about gang rapes on US college campuses. I have googled it and apart from date rape/intoxication/drugged type rapes, there are no such stories in which violent gang rapes were perpetrated by students. There are other stories where gang rapes were perpetrated by non-students, but none by students.

Well, you said US history. I thought it extended beyond just college campuses. And no, I'm not referring to sex slavery when I said such gang-rapes occur. I just didn't bother with all the links. Lots of them in the USA with absolutely nothing to do with kidnapping gangs and the like.

That being said, one of the links is to a .pdf I found on a database I have access to. A Clinical Therapist compiled case studies. Someone reviewed the book and wrote this (scroll down). By the way, the university cited here is University of Pennsylvania. This is from 1990:

http://www.jstor.org.gate.lib.buffa...e=images/pages/dtc.112.tif.gif&suffix=2073740

EDIT: well, that didn't work. I copied it and only the link appeared. I'll transcribe the first few sentences: "More than 110 cases of gang-rape have been reported on college campuses in the past 6 years. In Fraternity Kavanaughed, P. Sanday describes the events leading up to one Kavanaughed at a fraternity in 1983... Sanday reports on the case from the viewpoints of the victim, the witnesses, the fraternity members, the court system, and the university. What is truly remarkable is that no one disputes the facts of the case--that five or six fraternity members had sex with the unconscious victim. Yet few label what happened a rape." The frat members she goes on to say referred to it as "pulling a train."

 

[CoastAtlantic]

I've been reluctant to bring this up but you can't ignore the political angle when discussing the issue of campus rapes. The radfem movement has been trying to take advantage of ginning up rape hysteria. There has been an issue of the most extreme of feminist movements attempting to demonize male hetero s e xuality with rape hysteria, like saying that all s e x, whether consensual or not, is rape.

This has consequences. Imagine if you had consensual s e x and then later on you're accused of rape by the same person you had it with. Your reputation is ruined, having to spend thousands in legal fees, your job in jeopardy, even family members not wanting to talk to you. Even if you are found not guilty the suspicion stays with you.

That's why false rape accusations are a very serious matter. I don't really know what happened in Charlottesville but I hope that truth comes out of the situation.

 

[pj]

EDIT: well, that didn't work. I copied it and only the link appeared. I'll transcribe the first few sentences: "More than 110 cases of gang-rape have been reported on college campuses in the past 6 years. In Fraternity Kavanaughed, P. Sanday describes the events leading up to one Kavanaughed at a fraternity in 1983... Sanday reports on the case from the viewpoints of the victim, the witnesses, the fraternity members, the court system, and the university. What is truly remarkable is that no one disputes the facts of the case--that five or six fraternity members had s e x with the unconscious victim. Yet few label what happened a rape." The frat members she goes on to say referred to it as "pulling a train."

That does not contradict the generalization made by Caitlin Flanagan that I quoted above: there have been gang rapes of unresisting drugged women, but not violent gang rapes of a conscious and resisting women, by college students. Violent gang rapes on campus have all been by non-student perpetrators.

 

[ASweet3781]

The magazine that put a glamorous rock star like photo of the Boston bomber on it's cover showed bad judgment it seems. Shocker.

 

[upstater]

I've been reluctant to bring this up but you can't ignore the political angle when discussing the issue of campus rapes. The radfem movement has been trying to take advantage of ginning up rape hysteria. There has been an issue of the most extreme of feminist movements attempting to demonize male hetero s e xuality with rape hysteria, like saying that all s e x, whether consensual or not, is rape.

This has consequences. Imagine if you had consensual s e x and then later on you're accused of rape by the same person you had it with. Your reputation is ruined, having to spend thousands in legal fees, your job in jeopardy, even family members not wanting to talk to you. Even if you are found not guilty the suspicion stays with you.

That's why false rape accusations are a very serious matter. I don't really know what happened in Charlottesville but I hope that truth comes out of the situation.

Such f'in bullshit in this post.

The reason people are promoting rape awareness is because the vast, vast majority of rapes are unreported. Which propagates rape.

 

[upstater]

That does not contradict the generalization made by Caitlin Flanagan that I quoted above: there have been gang rapes of unresisting drugged women, but not violent gang rapes of a conscious and resisting women, by college students. Violent gang rapes on campus have all been by non-student perpetrators.

First, the distinction is NOT one that Bradley made.

But, I'd like to get a hold of that 1990 study of 110 instances of gang-rape in fraternities in the prior 6 years. Gotta wonder if it was all drugged or unconscious women.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

Such f'in bull in this post.

The reason people are promoting rape awareness is because the vast, vast majority of rapes are unreported. Which propagates rape.

It's not bull. There are feminists who are now saying that the accuser should have been believed even when the story isn't panning out.

We already have issues regarding the right to due process in regards to other types of crime. A false rape accusation has the potential of damaging the accused. I think both accuser and accused should have their names shielded from being released to the public until the trial is done.

 

[upstater]

It's not bull. There are feminists who are now saying that the accuser should have been believed even when the story isn't panning out.

We already have issues regarding the right to due process in regards to other types of crime. A false rape accusation has the potential of damaging the accused. I think both accuser and accused should have their names shielded from being released to the public until the trial is done.

There is no accused here.