MLS Expansion update

[ZooCougar]

I think they should take the Railhawks and just upgrade them. Similar to what Minnesota United is doing and what Sacramento FC will hopefully do if they get the nod. The Railhawks pull about 4400 fans. I would have preferred they'd be the team instead of adding an Atlanta team. However, my disdain for Atlanta is probably more related to the fact that they're going to be playing in a NFL stadium.

Railhawks have a looooong way to go. First they have to be able to pay the fee, and then finance a suitable stadium. Look at the newer stadiums in the league. Most of them are palaces. Sporting Park is 200 Million, DC is getting an expensive stadium, Man City USA wants to spend 400 million, Orlando's new stadium is also nice and I don't particularly care for San Jose's stadium. The barrier to entry gets bigger every year.

Atlanta supposedly has 30,000 people who want to buy season tickets. If they can get half that then they are already a success. I hate the NFL stadium as well, but at least it was designed to be converted for soccer so it won't look like an empty cavern.

Really, the only outlier will be New England and Foxboro will be the eyesore of the league once DC moves out of RFK.

But none of this addresses MLS's fundamental problem, it's not even the most popular league in the US. Liga MX gets better ratings in the US, and EPL gets fantastic ratings that dwarf MLS often at 7 am on a Saturday morning.

 

[UCFBfan]

Railhawks have a looooong way to go. First they have to be able to pay the fee, and then finance a suitable stadium. Look at the newer stadiums in the league. Most of them are palaces. Sporting Park is 200 Million, DC is getting an expensive stadium, Man City USA wants to spend 400 million, Orlando's new stadium is also nice and I don't particularly care for San Jose's stadium. The barrier to entry gets bigger every year.

Atlanta supposedly has 30,000 people who want to buy season tickets. If they can get half that then they are already a success. I hate the NFL stadium as well, but at least it was designed to be converted for soccer so it won't look like an empty cavern.

Really, the only outlier will be New England and Foxboro will be the eyesore of the league once DC moves out of RFK.

But none of this addresses MLS's fundamental problem, it's not even the most popular league in the US. Liga MX gets better ratings in the US, and EPL gets fantastic ratings that dwarf MLS often at 7 am on a Saturday morning.

I'd be curious to see where MLS ranks in terms of ratings among all the leagues. I know EPL is tops but where does MLS stack up against the Bundesliga (FS1), La Liga, Ligue 1, and Serie A (all on BeIN). I have a feeling they don't compare favorably. Which is why they need to slow the expansion roll and focus on the product. It's a giant let down when the European leagues end and you still wanna watch soccer and switch on a MLS game. I know that they don't have the quality of players the EPL does but it's not even remotely close in terms of product. I still have a hard time sitting and watching a full MLS game yet watch countless EPL games. I can probably count on one the hand the number of MLS games I've watched from start to finish. I can only imagine what it will look like if they dilute it even more with 28 teams.

As for Atlanta. I'm reserving judgement until I see a game. I know they are building it to convert to a soccer stadium somehow but from the videos it still looks like a football stadium with seats covered. I think it's still going to feel empty and cavernous. We shall see.

Any word on where NYCFC is going to build a stadium or even a time frame on when it might happen?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Railhawks have a looooong way to go. First they have to be able to pay the fee, and then finance a suitable stadium. Look at the newer stadiums in the league. Most of them are palaces. Sporting Park is 200 Million, DC is getting an expensive stadium, Man City USA wants to spend 400 million, Orlando's new stadium is also nice and I don't particularly care for San Jose's stadium. The barrier to entry gets bigger every year.

Atlanta supposedly has 30,000 people who want to buy season tickets. If they can get half that then they are already a success. I hate the NFL stadium as well, but at least it was designed to be converted for soccer so it won't look like an empty cavern.

Really, the only outlier will be New England and Foxboro will be the eyesore of the league once DC moves out of RFK.

But none of this addresses MLS's fundamental problem, it's not even the most popular league in the US. Liga MX gets better ratings in the US, and EPL gets fantastic ratings that dwarf MLS often at 7 am on a Saturday morning.

Just finished watching the Arsenal match myself. Bet I was not the only American watching that one.

With respect to a Carolina expansion team, as just thinking logistics and potential market. I agree that infrastructure is a key hurdle, though for certain clubs, MLS seems to ignore such challenges - like Miami being a horrible sports town, LA not having the market to support two teams, NYC FC lacking a true stadium. Such exceptions would not be made for a Carolina team. Don't know about the money; but, there is plenty of space to build a full MLS stadium where the Railhawks play.

FYI - No surprise; but, there has not been a peep in the press about stadium for the Rev since Boston's Olympic bid went belly-up. Kraft si only going to build a stadium if someone else pays for it.

 

[ZooCougar]

Just finished watching the Arsenal match myself. Bet I was not the only American watching that one.

With respect to a Carolina expansion team, as just thinking logistics and potential market. I agree that infrastructure is a key hurdle, though for certain clubs, MLS seems to ignore such challenges - like Miami being a horrible sports town, LA not having the market to support two teams, NYC FC lacking a true stadium. Such exceptions would not be made for a Carolina team. Don't know about the money; but, there is plenty of space to build a full MLS stadium where the Railhawks play.

FYI - No surprise; but, there has not been a peep in the press about stadium for the Rev since Boston's Olympic bid went belly-up. Kraft si only going to build a stadium if someone else pays for it.

MLS is contractually obligated to give Beckham a franchise for $25 Mil. But the word on the street is he sold his stake to the Qataris. Still a chance it will never happen.

 

[ZooCougar]

I'd be curious to see where MLS ranks in terms of ratings among all the leagues. I know EPL is tops but where does MLS stack up against the Bundesliga (FS1), La Liga, Ligue 1, and Serie A (all on BeIN). I have a feeling they don't compare favorably. Which is why they need to slow the expansion roll and focus on the product. It's a giant let down when the European leagues end and you still wanna watch soccer and switch on a MLS game. I know that they don't have the quality of players the EPL does but it's not even remotely close in terms of product. I still have a hard time sitting and watching a full MLS game yet watch countless EPL games. I can probably count on one the hand the number of MLS games I've watched from start to finish. I can only imagine what it will look like if they dilute it even more with 28 teams.

As for Atlanta. I'm reserving judgement until I see a game. I know they are building it to convert to a soccer stadium somehow but from the videos it still looks like a football stadium with seats covered. I think it's still going to feel empty and cavernous. We shall see.

Any word on where NYCFC is going to build a stadium or even a time frame on when it might happen?

I can definitely see why it is a letdown. It's a not as much of a letdown for me because I know the league and the managers. Plus MLS Fantasy is really fun. I am going to do the MLS DraftKings this season because I think it might be pretty easy money.

 

[UCFBfan]

Interesting article comparing the MLS with the China Super League.

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-s...e-chinese-super-leagues-ambition-mean-for-mls

Will be interesting to see how this impacts MLS. The biggest take away is that while the CSL is dumping tons of money into bringing in players in their prime, it's still the reality that you will be living in China while in MLS you get to live in North America. That seems to be an attractive option for many in MLS. However, it would be nice if the CSL's moves force MLS to maybe open up their rules on transfers and bring in players who are closer to their prime instead of well off of it. It also will be interesting to see if China starts to take the younger players who have come up through the academies in MLS. If that happens, I believe MLS will start to be more concerned.

 

[Chuck]

I've posted a few times here and I always start with the qualifier that I don't know nearly as much professional soccer as you guys. I thought you might find this interesting (although probably not surprising). I took my 9 year old son to an academy camp yesterday. Of course, all the kids were wearing pro jerseys. My son decided to wear his Real Salt Lake jersey (he randomly picked them as his MLS team despite living 20 miles from Red Bulls Arena and 15 miles from Yankee Stadium and NYCFC). He also loves Man U and Real Madrid (he took a lot of chances with those, but Man U hasn't rewarded him for his 3 years of loyalty). He was the only kid in any MLS gear. Big percentage of the kids had Messi jerseys (they put them together in a scrimmage at one point rather then using pinnies). There were a bunch of Premier League jerseys, a handful of Real Madrid and then a number of other random team or country jerseys.

I still think the popularity of professional soccer is a net positive for US soccer (both playing and for MLS), but MLS isn't doing a great job turning the kids into die hard fans.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I've posted a few times here and I always start with the qualifier that I don't know nearly as much professional soccer as you guys. I thought you might find this interesting (although probably not surprising). I took my 9 year old son to an academy camp yesterday. Of course, all the kids were wearing pro jerseys. My son decided to wear his Real Salt Lake jersey (he randomly picked them as his MLS team despite living 20 miles from Red Bulls Arena and 15 miles from Yankee Stadium and NYCFC). He also loves Man U and Real Madrid (he took a lot of chances with those, but Man U hasn't rewarded him for his 3 years of loyalty). He was the only kid in any MLS gear. Big percentage of the kids had Messi jerseys (they put them together in a scrimmage at one point rather then using pinnies). There were a bunch of Premier League jerseys, a handful of Real Madrid and then a number of other random team or country jerseys.

I still think the popularity of professional soccer is a net positive for US soccer (both playing and for MLS), but MLS isn't doing a great job turning the kids into die hard fans.

I agree and it also highlights the rapid increase in exposure that the European leading clubs have generated in the last few years on TV and in game consoles.

 

[UCFBfan]

I agree and it also highlights the rapid increase in exposure that the European leading clubs have generated in the last few years on TV and in game consoles.

I agree as well and I think the rapid rise of Fifa on the XBox and PlayStation consoles has helped immensely as well while not helping MLS. If you look at how the game is set up there are tons of things built in for the high profile leagues but there are barely any MLS stadiums even in the game. I know the game is marketed worldwide but MLS is barely a blip in the game.

In the school I teach in there are many kids who wear soccer jerseys (it's a K-5 school). I can't recall seeing one MLS jersey being worn by a student. I see a decent amount of EPL and Barca/Real jerseys but never seen a MLS one. I've had a few kids tell me they've gone to a Revs game but more talk about the European league games they see on TV then anything else.

I agree that MLS still has a ways to go. For all the massive strides professional soccer has made in this country in the last decade or so, MLS seems to be lagging. I know that a superstar like Messi isn't walking through the door but MLS has gotta get something going.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Interesting article comparing the MLS with the China Super League.

Some corrupt barstads may throw money at some players, but, first hand, the CSL is a steaming pile of crap compared with MLS, dodgy missed shots (e.g., penalty shots), results, etc., despite continued efforts to limit gambling-influences, etc. At some point, CSL may have a good league. In the interim, it basically sukks.

 

[ZooCougar]

Interesting article comparing the MLS with the China Super League.

http://www.espnfc.us/major-league-s...e-chinese-super-leagues-ambition-mean-for-mls

Will be interesting to see how this impacts MLS. The biggest take away is that while the CSL is dumping tons of money into bringing in players in their prime, it's still the reality that you will be living in China while in MLS you get to live in North America. That seems to be an attractive option for many in MLS. However, it would be nice if the CSL's moves force MLS to maybe open up their rules on transfers and bring in players who are closer to their prime instead of well off of it. It also will be interesting to see if China starts to take the younger players who have come up through the academies in MLS. If that happens, I believe MLS will start to be more concerned.

Here is the comparison in a nutshell:

MLS with it's massive warts, actually pays their players on time. Full stop.

What's amazing is how many of these big names go to China, only to have their contracts abruptly canceled a year later. Tim Cahill is the most recent example.

 

[ZooCougar]

The Qatari League. The biggest sh5tshow in soccer.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eD81rLIAVvQ?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wbqUoCr_f9c?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The Qatari League. The biggest sh5tshow in soccer.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/eD81rLIAVvQ?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wbqUoCr_f9c?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Is that a surprise? With all of the money that Qatar has invested in the 2022 World Cup between building stadiums with technology that does not currently exist and bribing most of FIFA executive leadership plus the recent crash of oil prices, they don't have the money left to start a new professional soccer league.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

MLS with it's massive warts, actually pays their players on time. Full stop.

That too, yet I opted to avoid piling on the sh|t show which is CSL.

 

[ZooCougar]

http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/me...558a-a624-68f6ddcdb8b6.html?mobile_touch=true

St. Louis is coming together.

 

[ZooCougar]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/02/22/football/football-mls-messi-ronaldo/index.html?iref=obinsite

This is a little off the wall.. But if I were running LAFC, I would be pushing for this, with Jose Mourinho at the helm.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

First pics of Minnesota United's proposed stadium on a plot of land in between downtown St. Paul and the U of Minn campus in Minneapolis. I believe it will be on the existing busline between the two.



I am hoping it is big enough to host USMNT games, say Cup Qualifying against Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, etc. in February

 

[ZooCougar]

San Antonio really wants an MLS team.

Why does San Antonio want a Major League Soccer team?

 

[DarthGrumpy]

San Antonio really wants an MLS team.

Why does San Antonio want a Major League Soccer team?

Really wants a team. I did not know that the new stadium they built can be expanded and that the company that built the stadium owes the city money if it can't get an MLS team.

With Spurs on board, San Antonio FC set sights on MLS expansion | THE WORD

 

[UCFBfan]

There are so many more deserving cities for a MLS team then Miami, LA, and the horrendous idea of Vegas (not sure if that was put to rest yet). Just look at these cities that support heir USL, NASL, or whatever level team they have in droves. Sacramento is HUGE. Why not put the second LA team there instead of LA. Northern California has San Jose and that's it. Sacramento has proven they'll draw.

I'm glad to see that Minnesota was given a team but Atlanta, in a football stadium? Yuck. I get why they wanted to get into the Southeast though so I'm not going to criticize that move as much as I will the Miami and second LA team.

San Antonio is doing everything right it seems. I think they supported their now defunct NASL team very well. Didn't they disband the NASL team with the sole purpose of getting into the MLS??? That's pretty nuts.

It is just ridiculous that is MLS is hell bent on expanding to ridiculous levels that they don't go to cities that have shown the ability to support a club at a high level. It's a win-win.

This league just makes me scratch my head so many times.

 

[ZooCougar]

SoccerAmerica - MLS expansion, immediate and long term, taking shape 04/15/2016

Nauseating.

Sacramento is a good club, but they could basically end the San Jose Earthquakes.

Just not looking forward to a 28 team soccer league with a complicated NFL style playoff system.

 

[ZooCougar]

There are so many more deserving cities for a MLS team then Miami, LA, and the horrendous idea of Vegas (not sure if that was put to rest yet). Just look at these cities that support heir USL, NASL, or whatever level team they have in droves. Sacramento is HUGE. Why not put the second LA team there instead of LA. Northern California has San Jose and that's it. Sacramento has proven they'll draw.

I'm glad to see that Minnesota was given a team but Atlanta, in a football stadium? Yuck. I get why they wanted to get into the Southeast though so I'm not going to criticize that move as much as I will the Miami and second LA team.

San Antonio is doing everything right it seems. I think they supported their now defunct NASL team very well. Didn't they disband the NASL team with the sole purpose of getting into the MLS??? That's pretty nuts.

It is just ridiculous that is MLS is hell bent on expanding to ridiculous levels that they don't go to cities that have shown the ability to support a club at a high level. It's a win-win.

This league just makes me scratch my head so many times.

The old San Antonio owner used the profits from the club and the sale towards a theme park for disabled children which is adjacent to the stadium. The Scorpions were really successful, and they had an interesting history with their mascot which was supposed to be a Scorpion but looked like piece of !



But I just think that the owner saw that the deep pocketed Spurs group wanted the club so he got out while they were ahead, and most of the old Scorpions went to the new Rayo OKC club in NASL.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

SoccerAmerica - MLS expansion, immediate and long term, taking shape 04/15/2016

Nauseating.

Sacramento is a good club, but they could basically end the San Jose Earthquakes.

Just not looking forward to a 28 team soccer league with a complicated NFL style playoff system.

I think current MLS ownership is addicted to expansion fees. They should be more focused on:

• 1) Improving the quality of play on the pitch, which will attract better players more fans in the seats and on TV, which attracts more money, which circles back to better players
• 2) Fix issues with their current teams, such as NYC FC and the Revs desperately needing a home pitch (I assume that DC's field is a done deal)
  
• 3) See #1, look very closely at the value of adding a team in Atlanta that will play in a football stadium when Atlanta has proven to be a challenging pro sports market and only 1 team has been successful in a NFL stadium and ditto on Miami and a second MLS team in LA as both are also tough sports towns

 

[ZooCougar]

I think current MLS ownership is addicted to expansion fees. They should be more focused on:

• 1) Improving the quality of play on the pitch, which will attract better players more fans in the seats and on TV, which attracts more money, which circles back to better players
• 2) Fix issues with their current teams, such as NYC FC and the Revs desperately needing a home pitch (I assume that DC's field is a done deal)
  
• 3) See #1, look very closely at the value of adding a team in Atlanta that will play in a football stadium when Atlanta has proven to be a challenging pro sports market and only 1 team has been successful in a NFL stadium and ditto on Miami and a second MLS team in LA as both are also tough sports towns

Atlanta is already happening. They have sold LOTS of tickets, and signed players.

Their stadium will look much like Vancouver, you probably won't notice the upper deck.

 

[ZooCougar]

Atlanta United unveil dazzling plans for "best in MLS" training complex

Not too shabby.