Mississippi St (5) @ Oregon (7) - 12/18/18

[IWearShoes]

Wow. This is a thread well traveled. Just wanted to add that I enjoyed both the TN/Stanford game and this one. Very competitive and engaging. There's a tremendous amount of talent now in wcbb, which makes the game a better entertainment than in the past.
Sadly, in the Oregon game, Vic did his usual disruptive and unseemly act. They should T him up every time he leaves the coaches' box. Maybe that will sedate him enough to act like something less than a nut. He and Kim are embarrassments. Nice people? Probably. Good role models? Nah.

I do really wish Vic would stay in the box, but personalities will differ. Always have, always will.

He's a very nice man and a caring coach. Nut and embarrassment are not applicable IMO.

 

[jonson]

Let me parse your comments as there are a few divergent thoughts going on.
#1. I think Ionescu is AWESOME. She had a great game last night and was the main reason UO won. I take offense when commenters make it sound like she is significantly better and that had she made her shots, it would have been a blowout. That’s not true. If she would have made her shots, she probably doesn’t pass as much or Boley and Sabally play more, I have seen her play 19 times now so while not as much as some more than most on the East Coast.
#2. As the PAC12 is the strongest conference for the 3rd year running, I do appreciate it, what I don’t appreciate is Touting Sabrina having great shooting nights against Utah, Col, Wash St, Wash, last years USC as examples of how she is awesome. I do think OSU almost always and at time Stanford (they did give up 85 to Tenn yesterday) play good defense.
#3. Not sure of what that means as I do think she’s a great player and impacted the game differently last night. Never said she wasn’t a good shooter so you are misguided on your extolling her acume and as you noted players have a bad night for any number reasons- Ask Teira what happened last night, maybe it was UOs defense..something as rare a sighting as Sasquatch in the NW but it happened.
I choose to think MSU defense contributed to SI off shooting night. Nothing you can elicit from you caldron of past watched games will change what I felt I saw last night.
I think she was awesome last night but will ABSOLUTELY push back on those posters who want to give a different assessment that the game would have been a blowout if she played well shooting. Same could be said for Teira...

Maybe I can split the difference. First, I don't think the game would have been a blowout whatever Ionescu did from the field. Before the game I had more faith in Oregon than the majority of posters here, but I'm not that optimistic about this team's abilities. I do think that Ionescu missed a fair number of open shots she normally makes. So I suppose that's a minus. But she also made 17 straight free throws, a record for her and the program as well. And almost half of her points came in the fourth quarter. In short, she did what great players are supposed to do when they are not shooting well for whatever reason: find a way to win. I think that there were several keys to the game, but Ionescu certainly played her part.

 

[JonathanXIV]

I did think that too awhile back. But with Oregon, Baylor & MS St all stumbling, if MD runs the table it will be difficult for the committee not to give the turtles a #1 seed.

If ND wins the ACC, they will get a 1 seed. If MSU runs through the SEC without more than one stumble, they will likely get a 1 seed. That leaves a final 1 seed, and if one of the PAC 12 teams can assume control of the conference, or Baylor only loses one more game (UConn), then there is a good possibility that the final 1 seed goes to one of them. Maryland doesn't just need to go undefeated, they need to be impressive and hope that other teams stumble more than once.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Let me parse your comments as there are a few divergent thoughts going on.
#1. I think Ionescu is AWESOME. She had a great game last night and was the main reason UO won. I take offense when commenters make it sound like she is significantly better and that had she made her shots, it would have been a blowout. That’s not true. If she would have made her shots, she probably doesn’t pass as much or Boley and Sabally play more, I have seen her play 19 times now so while not as much as some more than most on the East Coast.
#2. As the PAC12 is the strongest conference for the 3rd year running, I do appreciate it, what I don’t appreciate is Touting Sabrina having great shooting nights against Utah, Col, Wash St, Wash, last years USC as examples of how she is awesome. I do think OSU almost always and at time Stanford (they did give up 85 to Tenn yesterday) play good defense.
#3. Not sure of what that means as I do think she’s a great player and impacted the game differently last night. Never said she wasn’t a good shooter so you are misguided on your extolling her acume and as you noted players have a bad night for any number reasons- Ask Teira what happened last night, maybe it was UOs defense..something as rare a sighting as Sasquatch in the NW but it happened.
I choose to think MSU defense contributed to SI off shooting night. Nothing you can elicit from you caldron of past watched games will change what I felt I saw last night.
I think she was awesome last night but will ABSOLUTELY push back on those posters who want to give a different assessment that the game would have been a blowout if she played well shooting. Same could be said for Teira...

My issue with watching last night's game and Ionescu is that after she scored, the commentator didn't just report her point total, but insisted - every damn time - of reporting her assists and rebounds, although she was no where near a triple double. "Ionescu now with 10 points, and 3 assist and 3 rebounds." It goes to show the narrative that is being pushed, even thought it had nothing to do with the actual game we were watching.

 

[NWHoopFan2]

Does it appear OU ...what's the right term, "palm" the ball when they dribble or is the court background playing tricks on my eyes?

I used to hate the court when I saw it on TV. However, it’s much better when you see it in person.

 

[Centerstream]

Sadly, in the Oregon game, Vic did his usual disruptive and unseemly act. They should T him up every time he leaves the coaches' box. Maybe that will sedate him enough to act like something less than a nut. He and Kim are embarrassments. Nice people? Probably. Good role models? Nah.

Could not agree more and I posted about his "on court" presence in this thread, that actually stepping onto the court qualifies for a "T". And Karen Aston is famous for this too.

 

[huskyd]

I do really wish Vic would stay in the box, but personalities will differ. Always have, always will.

He's a very nice man and a caring coach. Nut and embarrassment are not applicable IMO.

I said "acts" like a nut; I don't think he is one. If you don't consider his behavior embarrassing, that's fine, but I and most of the Oregon fans weren't thrilled with his antics. And role model? Whatever. It's punishment enough that his team went down. Think his act helped?

 

[NWHoopFan2]

Maybe I can split the difference. First, I don't think the game would have been a blowout whatever Ionescu did from the field. Before the game I had more faith in Oregon than the majority of posters here, but I'm not that optimistic about this team's abilities. I do think that Ionescu missed a fair number of open shots she normally makes. So I suppose that's a minus. But she also made 17 straight free throws, a record for her and the program as well. And almost half of her points came in the fourth quarter. In short, she did what great players are supposed to do when they are not shooting well for whatever reason: find a way to win. I think that there were several keys to the game, but Ionescu certainly played her part.

I appreciate your diplomatic response. I was also at the game and felt that with what the MSU defense was giving Oregon, an average Oregon shooting performance given the shots MSU gave them easily could have resulted in a 20 point win. Is that a blowout? You decide. I also agree with you that a couple of earlier games raised a question about the team’s upside. Sabally is streaky and Boley is one dimensional. But I think the growth Chavez has shown so far and Graves’s willingness to use her in place of Sabally or Boley as situations dictate make me much more optimistic. Ionescu, Cazorla and Hebard are all givens on the offensive end. Hebard’s defensive improvement against athletic posts is also a reason for optimism. The conference season will be a grind and I doubt any team gets through it with less than two losses. But, it will be fun to watch.

 

[Plebe]

Oregon won’t appeal NCAA’s 2-game suspension of women’s basketball coach Kelly Graves

 

[nwhoopfan]

Well that worked out as expected. Graves coached the tougher games, waited til the window to appeal was about to close, and will sit out 2 games that should be fairly easy W's.

 

[oldude]

If ND wins the ACC, they will get a 1 seed. If MSU runs through the SEC without more than one stumble, they will likely get a 1 seed. That leaves a final 1 seed, and if one of the PAC 12 teams can assume control of the conference, or Baylor only loses one more game (UConn), then there is a good possibility that the final 1 seed goes to one of them. Maryland doesn't just need to go undefeated, they need to be impressive and hope that other teams stumble more than once.

That is a potential scenario. However, should MD go undefeated and end up with a 2-seed, let’s say in the Albany region, while several 1 or even 2 loss teams secure 1-seeds ahead of them, the selection committee will have to consider the negative consequences of 1,000’s of angry Lady Turtle fans who can’t get tickets in Albany because they’re already sold out, as well as the unfortunate tragedy when Brenda’s head explodes on national tv.

 

[NWHoopFan2]

I do really wish Vic would stay in the box, but personalities will differ. Always have, always will.

He's a very nice man and a caring coach. Nut and embarrassment are not applicable IMO.

But, as hard as it is to believe, he got out coached this game. His defensive scheme didn’t respect Oregon’s ability to attack the basket.

 

[SCspur]

But, as hard as it is to believe, he got out coached this game. His defensive scheme didn’t respect Oregon’s ability to attack the basket.

That’s the only way he plays defense though. Man to man all game. I’ve never seen him actually go to a zone even when McCowan got in foul trouble last year. Graves just knew attacking them was the best way to beat them.

 

[triaddukefan]

I do really wish Vic would stay in the box, but personalities will differ. Always have, always will.

He's a very nice man and a caring coach. Nut and embarrassment are not applicable IMO.

Not the only coach having trouble staying in the box and attacking ref's lately.

 

[MSUFan2003]

That’s the only way he plays defense though. Man to man all game. I’ve never seen him actually go to a zone even when McCowan got in foul trouble last year. Graves just knew attacking them was the best way to beat them.

I figured that would be his downfall at some point. I mentioned this a year ago on one of the message boards. He's not flexible with his defensive strategy even when his players can't execute it, and it's clearly not working. The difference was that last year, the team could overcome it offensively most of the time.

They also had a bench last year. This year, there's barely a bench. So you have players forced to play a full court press, man to man, for 40 minutes. They just get gassed and exposed to foul trouble. Two starters fouled out by the the time it was all said and done. His inability to realize that a zone can be helpful is my one big gripe with him. It's his blind spot. Otherwise, he's obviously dang good. They played zone for about 5 minutes this year when they were beating someone by 40, but I haven't seen it since.

 

[SCspur]

I figured that would be his downfall at some point. I mentioned this a year ago on one of the message boards. He's not flexible with his defensive strategy even when his players can't execute it, and it's clearly not working. The difference was that last year, the team could overcome it offensively most of the time.

They also had a bench last year. This year, there's barely a bench. So you have players forced to play a full court press, man to man, for 40 minutes. They just get gassed and exposed to foul trouble. Two starters fouled out by the the time it was all said and done. His inability to realize that a zone can be helpful is my one big gripe with him. It's his blind spot. Otherwise, he's obviously dang good. They played zone for about 5 minutes this year when they were beating someone by 40, but I haven't seen it since.

Yes, I see your point but it’s hard for a coach to implement something different especially when what your doing is working. I personally think he should be more flexible with his defense intstead of going man to man the entire game. That’s what makes coaches like Geno and Muffet so elite. They take you out of what you like to do and make you score from uncomfortable positions. Now ND plays a pretty good Zone defense and can switch to man when a team gets hot from the arc, and the same can be said about UCONN.

But I will say in the past three years Miss St has been one of the top 5 defensive teams in the country.

 

[oldude]

Yes, I see your point but it’s hard for a coach to implement something different especially when what your doing is working. I personally think he should be more flexible with his defense intstead of going man to man the entire game. That’s what makes coaches like Geno and Muffet so elite. They take you out of what you like to do and make you score from uncomfortable positions. Now ND plays a pretty good Zone defense and can switch to man when a team gets hot from the arc, and the same can be said about UCONN.

But I will say in the past three years Miss St had been a top 5 defensi

Geno has resisted playing very much zone for many years up until the last few when he’s begun to employ multiple zone packages more and more frequently.