Mississippi St (10) @ Marquette - 11/25/19

[DaBball]

I have never claimed such a thing.

It's not necessarily a question of eradicating all cupcakes. It's about having enough quality opponents to overshadow the cupcakes. Balance and proportion. Plus there's the bigger picture of promoting the game, which I also happen to think is important.

There were others that did pertaining to SC’s schedule, which I happen to think does a terrific job of balancing out the cupcakes with
tough, highly-ranked teams.

 

[Plebe]

There were others that did pertaining to SC’s schedule, which I happen to think does a terrific job of balancing out the cupcakes with
tough, highly-ranked teams.

Well, they were wrong to say that. I'm not them.

I will say that watching SC Upstate was just cringey and painful. They were #341 in last year's RPI. But yes, Dawn overall does a commendable job with her schedule and doesn't shy away from scheduling tough games. She's taken some beatdowns from UConn and keeps scheduling us. And you didn't hear this from me, but this just might be the year she finally gets a win on Geno.

 

[SimpleDawg]

I have never claimed such a thing.

It's not necessarily a question of eradicating all cupcakes. It's about having enough quality opponents to overshadow the cupcakes. Balance and proportion. Plus there's the bigger picture of promoting the game, which I also happen to think is important.

But don't you think we help promote the game just because we're Mississippi State? Starkville attracts such a big crowd and we get a lot of media attention. We were #5 in crowds last year. That aspect helps the game more than it hurts it.

Only 5 or 6 campuses are crazy about women's basketball. MSU is one of them. You take us out of the equation and that's one less item to help promote the game.

And you don't think our 7 or 8 top 25 teams will help balance out the cupcakes? UConn also has 7 top 25 teams on their schedule, and they have less a chance to add to that with their conference tournament.

And again...please don't get riled up. I'm just having an understanding discussion.

 

[Plebe]

But don't you think we help promote the game just because we're Mississippi State? Starkville attracts such a big crowd and we get a lot of media attention. We were #5 in crowds last year. That aspect helps the game more than it hurts it.

Only 5 or 6 campuses are crazy about women's basketball. MSU is one of them. You take us out of the equation and that's one less item to help promote the game.

And you don't think our 7 or 8 top 25 teams will help balance out the cupcakes? UConn also has 7 top 25 teams on their schedule, and they have less a chance to add to that with their conference tournament.

And again...please don't get riled up. I'm just having an understanding discussion.

Answers: No and no.

I'm talking about outside the Starkville bubble. Creating must-see matchups for a national audience.

We've touched on the "7 top 25" claim elsewhere. That's a very soft 7. The only real contenders would be Stanford (if it happens), SC and A&M.

 

[IWearShoes]

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Sorry I will take this one, not gloating but not turning it down. I didn't see it but read the stats and MU shot the ball very well and MSU didn't, plus gave up too many rebounds.

We may not be #10 but we are probably still in the top 20. I have no problem admitting the schedule is a soft a tissue but this is a young team overall that isn't totally sure of their identity. Count me as one who is still not sure why Danberry got a waiver but am pumped she did. This team needs her experience. I too wonder why we've turned from a defense first squad to one where perimeter players score seemingly at will. 10 3 pointers (of 20) is tough to defeat no matter how weak the competition.

Meanwhile I am visiting family for Thanksgiving and am in the town of Cleveland, Mississippi, home of tiny Delta State University and a dynasty of the late 70s but I was too young to remember.

 

[Jmsdawg]

Marquette shoots almost 50% from the field (twos and threes) out-rebounds State, is playing at Home, State shoots 35% from the field (25% from three point land). However, State shot 87% from the FT line on the road. That is impressive for a relatively young team. If Marquette was going to beat State, tonight should have been that opportunity to cash in but they did not. 28 turnovers by Marquette was another big issue for them as well.
I see some of you on here love to criticize Coach Schaefer and the Dawgs and that is okay. You are entitled to your opinion. At the end of the game it was a big W for State. This team grew up some tonight and will continue to get better as the season moves along. They learned tonight how to scrap their way to a win on the road. It is easy to win when the shots are falling, not so much when you are throwing up clunkers. When shots are not falling you have to persevere and that is what the Dawgs did tonight.

I agree, we did not play well and I thought Marquette’s play was exceptional. I believe whoever decided Marquette was the 9th rated Big East team made a mistake. I realize shots do not always go in but rebounding is effort and with our length we should not get out reboundEd by a smaller team. Vic still has work to do.

 

[DefenseBB]

Really, just chill out. I'm in a thread about a Mississippi State game. I'm not all over your board touting anything. The strength of schedule is a constant and pointless drumbeat IMO, so I said that. Your response is over the top.

No, I won’t chill out when you tell a logical colleague to stop “beating a drum”, Especially on a thread about MSU in a UConn Board. Suck it up and own that Vic schedules cupcakes and that your team, while having had a nice run with a generational type player (for MSU anyway) Is not a foregone shoe-in for any more Final Fours in the near future. So it is not like playing these #300 rank teams at home helps you. Games AT Marquette do help your program. He should schedule more of those and then, maybe we could rally around “the Preacher”. Until then deal with the drum beats.

 

[meyers7]

As @Lorcan posted yesterday, UConn had quite a few cupcakes back in the day (from 12-13):

“#164 College of Charleston
#161 Wake Forest
#236 Colgate
#292 Oakland
#255 Oregon”

Ah, how we love to cherry-pick our evidence.

Those 5 cupcake games were more than counterbalanced by the quality games on UConn's OOC schedule, including:

• #1 Baylor
• #3 Stanford
• #5 Duke
• #6 Penn State
• #10 Texas A&M
• #12 Maryland
• #14 Purdue

UConn's nonconference SOS that year was #5 and overall SOS was #2.

When was the last time Vic scheduled 7 top-15 teams in a season?
Has he even scheduled 7 top-15 teams in his entire career?

In addition, the Big East in 2013 was amazingly strong, sending 3 teams to the Final Four.

In addition, Wake Forest (a P5 school) was at the Virgin Island Tourney, so UCONN really didn't have a say in scheduling them. And Oregon (another P5 school) was a Knight (Nike) Classic game. So that was kind of scheduled for them also.

 

[Dillon77]

Sorry I will take this one, not gloating but not turning it down. I didn't see it but read the stats and MU shot the ball very well and MSU didn't, plus gave up too many rebounds.

We may not be #10 but we are probably still in the top 20. I have no problem admitting the schedule is a soft a tissue but this is a young team overall that isn't totally sure of their identity. Count me as one who is still not sure why Danberry got a waiver but am pumped she did. This team needs her experience. I too wonder why we've turned from a defense first squad to one where perimeter players score seemingly at will. 10 3 pointers (of 20) is tough to defeat no matter how weak the competition.

Meanwhile I am visiting family for Thanksgiving and am in the town of Cleveland, Mississippi, home of tiny Delta State University and a dynasty of the late 70s but I was too young to remember.

Coach Margaret Wade and Luisa "Lucy" Harris of Delta State. I do remember that, having spent two years working for the Jackson Clarion-Ledger.

At the end of the day, Mississippi State -- probably still adjusting to not having some tough, scrappy guards and that, ahem, presence in the paint -- went north to play a tough program. Yes, Marquette lost five starters (hey, ND, you're not the only one!), but team recruits well and Megan Duffy is a Muffet McGraw/Kim Barnes Arico hybrid coach, so it was tough. And the Dogs won. ND went into Michigan, was outrebounded by nearly 30 and came away with a "W." Take it, learn and get better.

And have a great Thanksgiving. Harris was a great player, btw.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

Coach Margaret Wade and Luisa "Lucy" Harris of Delta State. I do remember that, having spent two years working for the Jackson Clarion-Ledger.

At the end of the day, Mississippi State -- probably still adjusting to not having some tough, scrappy guards and that, ahem, presence in the paint -- went north to play a tough program. Yes, Marquette lost five starters (hey, ND, you're not the only one!), but team recruits well and Megan Duffy is a Muffet McGraw/Kim Barnes Arico hybrid coach, so it was tough. And the Dogs won. ND went into Michigan, was outrebounded by nearly 30 and came away with a "W." Take it, learn and get better.

And have a great Thanksgiving. Harris was a great player, btw.

My moms brother was at DSU playing basketball during those days and recalls it well. I was a toddler during their heyday and the only reason I didn’t attend DSU was their lack of an engineering school.

Glad to read there is someone else here who has spent a little time in the “Sip”. I live in Atlanta now but do enjoy the periodic visits

 

[DaBball]

Vic is probably really wishing he had Esmery Martinez this season. She’s like an Anriel Howard.

 

[Jmsdawg]

But don't you think we help promote the game just because we're Mississippi State? Starkville attracts such a big crowd and we get a lot of media attention. We were #5 in crowds last year. That aspect helps the game more than it hurts it.

Only 5 or 6 campuses are crazy about women's basketball. MSU is one of them. You take us out of the equation and that's one less item to help promote the game.

And you don't think our 7 or 8 top 25 teams will help balance out the cupcakes? UConn also has 7 top 25 teams on their schedule, and they have less a chance to add to that with their conference tournament.

And again...please don't get riled up. I'm just having an understanding discussion.

I believe Plebe is saying the elite teams have a responsibility to promote WBB,I agree. WBB is not Attractive to a national audience unless competitive elite teams play one another (South Carolina/Maryland, Tennessee/ND, etc.). If MSST is an elite team we need to schedule games with other elite teams, for example Oregon, Baylor, UConn, etc. OOC I can only recall one team we played in the last 3 years, Oregon last year. Contrast that with UConn, South Carolina, Baylor, Oregon and we are not promoting WBB with our OCC schedule.
scheduling. Hopefully we correct this in the near future.

 

[DanishBulldog]

I'm talking about outside the Starkville bubble. Creating must-see matchups for a national audience.

I will address this one. Vic is trying to build a basketball culture in Mississippi and the Mid-South. The national audience is important, but he is going to spend time focusing on teams within a 5 or 6 hour drive of Starkville. Going to Jackson State this year was part of that plan. Yes, they are a cupcake, but a whole segment of fans that cannot make games in Starkville got a chance to meet the players and attend a game.

He is trying to re-create for women's basketball what Ron Polk did for men's baseball. MSU, Ole Miss, and USM all have large attendance for baseball. Their success has filtered down into D2, D3, Juco, and high school ranks as well. It is a baseball crazy state and can become a women's basketball crazy state with some focus. It won't happen over night, but the culture is changing.

-------------
November 10, 2019 11:03:17 PM

STARKVILLE -- How times have changed.

Just eight games into his tenure at Mississippi State, coach Vic Schaefer took the 2012 version of his squad down to Hattiesburg for an early season contest against Joye Lee-McNelis' Southern Miss team.

For Schaefer, an adopted Mississippian whose drawl is a reminder of his deep Texas roots, the battle to rebuild an MSU program that had only briefly brushed with success in its 38-year history began in-state.


On Dec. 1, 2012, it was Lee-McNelis' Southern Miss squad that took down the Bulldogs 61-59 courtesy of an Ance Celmina two-point jumper with six seconds left. On that day, 1,100 fans sat in Reed Green Coliseum to watch the action.

Seven years on from that result, 7,591 maroon and white faithful packed the rungs of Humphrey Coliseum to watch Schaefer and Lee-McNelis' teams do battle once more during Saturday's 91-58 MSU victory.

And though the result was lopsided, the game offered a glimpse into the ever-growing psyche of basketball -- particularly women's basketball -- in the state of Mississippi.

"I just want to say thank you to (Mississippi State) fans, the administration and your people for supporting women's basketball," Lee-McNelis said. "You have transformed the culture of basketball in the state of Mississippi."

Through a career that has spanned four decades, Lee-McNelis has proved a strong voice for the conscious of Mississippi basketball. A Leetown native and Southern Miss grad, she concluded her four-year career (1980-1984) as the program's No. 9 all-time leading scorer and has coached the Golden Eagles since 2004.

"I can remember years ago when there was nobody here," Lee-McNelis quipped of Humphrey Coliseum. "When I was a player at Southern Miss and Polly Branch played here -- and she was a great player -- you could stand during the national anthem and count on your hands and toes how many people were here."

Conversely, Schaefer has been progressively indoctrinated into Mississippi basketball lore. In his now eight years at the helm in Starkville, the Bulldogs have twice reached the national title game, won the program's first ever SEC tournament championship, and been ranked in the Associated Press top 25 for 94-straight weeks.

Having taken the Bulldogs to unprecedented heights, Schaefer has earned a front row seat to what success has done for his team and school.

"We owe it to our fans, we owe it to our university and we owe it to our families -- we owe it to them to give them the best product we can give them," he said. "Our best effort every night -- no matter who we're playing against."

"We've got a brand that we're proud to be a part of and a brand in Mississippi State women's basketball that we have to uphold and we don't need to take that for granted," he continued.

Though the top-tier stability Schaefer has brought to MSU is impressive, it's the rabid fan base he has accumulated over the years in a state that lacks a history of interest in basketball that stands above all.

The longtime Texas A&M assistant coach was born and bred in a state and a region that prides itself on football success. Mississippi is no different.

While the hometown Bulldogs were on a bye this week, the sports world was transfixed on Saturday's gridiron meeting between No. 1 LSU and No. 2 Alabama just over an hour down Highway 82 in Tuscaloosa -- a matchup that drew 16.636 million viewers on CBS.

Granted football remains at the center of Mississippi and the Southern United States' athletic universe, Saturday's crowd at Humphrey Coliseum did its part in supporting the Bulldogs on the hardwood.

"Almost 7,600 people in there today when No. 1 and No. 2 were playing in football," Schaefer said. "We're in the south where football is a pretty big deal around here. To see that we have 7,500 people in there supporting women's basketball -- it's a pretty neat deal."

It's been 2,535 days since Schaefer and Lee-McNelis first met as head coaches at two of Mississippi's flagship institutions. And if Saturday's crowd, or the estimated 6,000 season tickets Schaefer says his program has sold prove anything, it's that women's basketball has grasped a firm foothold in the state. How times have changed.

"I think we all recognize that we're in a really special place," Schaefer added. "And that's what I consistently try to tell these kids -- it's not like this most places. You're at a really special place."

 

[MSUFan2003]

I will address this one. Vic is trying to build a basketball culture in Mississippi and the Mid-South. The national audience is important, but he is going to spend time focusing on teams within a 5 or 6 hour drive of Starkville. Going to Jackson State this year was part of that plan. Yes, they are a cupcake, but a whole segment of fans that cannot make games in Starkville got a chance to meet the players and attend a game.

He is trying to re-create for women's basketball what Ron Polk did for men's baseball. MSU, Ole Miss, and USM all have large attendance for baseball. Their success has filtered down into D2, D3, Juco, and high school ranks as well. It is a baseball crazy state and can become a women's basketball crazy state with some focus. It won't happen over night, but the culture is changing.

-------------
November 10, 2019 11:03:17 PM

STARKVILLE -- How times have changed.

Just eight games into his tenure at Mississippi State, coach Vic Schaefer took the 2012 version of his squad down to Hattiesburg for an early season contest against Joye Lee-McNelis' Southern Miss team.

For Schaefer, an adopted Mississippian whose drawl is a reminder of his deep Texas roots, the battle to rebuild an MSU program that had only briefly brushed with success in its 38-year history began in-state.


On Dec. 1, 2012, it was Lee-McNelis' Southern Miss squad that took down the Bulldogs 61-59 courtesy of an Ance Celmina two-point jumper with six seconds left. On that day, 1,100 fans sat in Reed Green Coliseum to watch the action.

Seven years on from that result, 7,591 maroon and white faithful packed the rungs of Humphrey Coliseum to watch Schaefer and Lee-McNelis' teams do battle once more during Saturday's 91-58 MSU victory.

And though the result was lopsided, the game offered a glimpse into the ever-growing psyche of basketball -- particularly women's basketball -- in the state of Mississippi.

"I just want to say thank you to (Mississippi State) fans, the administration and your people for supporting women's basketball," Lee-McNelis said. "You have transformed the culture of basketball in the state of Mississippi."

Through a career that has spanned four decades, Lee-McNelis has proved a strong voice for the conscious of Mississippi basketball. A Leetown native and Southern Miss grad, she concluded her four-year career (1980-1984) as the program's No. 9 all-time leading scorer and has coached the Golden Eagles since 2004.

"I can remember years ago when there was nobody here," Lee-McNelis quipped of Humphrey Coliseum. "When I was a player at Southern Miss and Polly Branch played here -- and she was a great player -- you could stand during the national anthem and count on your hands and toes how many people were here."

Conversely, Schaefer has been progressively indoctrinated into Mississippi basketball lore. In his now eight years at the helm in Starkville, the Bulldogs have twice reached the national title game, won the program's first ever SEC tournament championship, and been ranked in the Associated Press top 25 for 94-straight weeks.

Having taken the Bulldogs to unprecedented heights, Schaefer has earned a front row seat to what success has done for his team and school.

"We owe it to our fans, we owe it to our university and we owe it to our families -- we owe it to them to give them the best product we can give them," he said. "Our best effort every night -- no matter who we're playing against."

"We've got a brand that we're proud to be a part of and a brand in Mississippi State women's basketball that we have to uphold and we don't need to take that for granted," he continued.

Though the top-tier stability Schaefer has brought to MSU is impressive, it's the rabid fan base he has accumulated over the years in a state that lacks a history of interest in basketball that stands above all.

The longtime Texas A&M assistant coach was born and bred in a state and a region that prides itself on football success. Mississippi is no different.

While the hometown Bulldogs were on a bye this week, the sports world was transfixed on Saturday's gridiron meeting between No. 1 LSU and No. 2 Alabama just over an hour down Highway 82 in Tuscaloosa -- a matchup that drew 16.636 million viewers on CBS.

Granted football remains at the center of Mississippi and the Southern United States' athletic universe, Saturday's crowd at Humphrey Coliseum did its part in supporting the Bulldogs on the hardwood.

"Almost 7,600 people in there today when No. 1 and No. 2 were playing in football," Schaefer said. "We're in the south where football is a pretty big deal around here. To see that we have 7,500 people in there supporting women's basketball -- it's a pretty neat deal."

It's been 2,535 days since Schaefer and Lee-McNelis first met as head coaches at two of Mississippi's flagship institutions. And if Saturday's crowd, or the estimated 6,000 season tickets Schaefer says his program has sold prove anything, it's that women's basketball has grasped a firm foothold in the state. How times have changed.

"I think we all recognize that we're in a really special place," Schaefer added. "And that's what I consistently try to tell these kids -- it's not like this most places. You're at a really special place."

Vic can build a culture in Mississippi and schedule more competitive games nationally. Both goals can be achieved. I have no problem with Vic scheduling USM, Jackson State, MS Valley, ect. All schedules have cupcakes, so go ahead and play the cupcakes in our state.

But we've had a woefully uncompetitive OOC schedule when we shouldn't. You don't have to play Notre Dame and UConn every year, but there are some other schools out there that we can play. If the women's game ever starts using the NET rankings like the men, Vic will be forced to schedule tougher.

 

[Jmsdawg]

No, I won’t chill out when you tell a logical colleague to stop “beating a drum”, Especially on a thread about MSU in a UConn Board. Suck it up and own that Vic schedules cupcakes and that your team, while having had a nice run with a generational type player (for MSU anyway) Is not a foregone shoe-in for any more Final Fours in the near future. So it is not like playing these #300 rank teams at home helps you. Games AT Marquette do help your program. He should schedule more of those and then, maybe we could rally around “the Preacher”. Until then deal with the drum beats.

No team is a shoe-in for the Final Four this year and it is my belief that will be the case for quite a while. Parity has arrived in WBB and I love it. Soon we will see upsets in the WBB tournaments just like we do in the men tournaments. Exciting times ahead!

 

[LoTrader]

No team is a shoe-in for the Final Four this year and it is my belief that will be the case for quite a while. Parity has arrived in WBB and I love it. Soon we will see upsets in the WBB tournaments just like we do in the men tournaments. Exciting times ahead!

Parity has arrived, and, I believe here to stay for a good while.

 

[DefenseBB]

No team is a shoe-in for the Final Four this year and it is my belief that will be the case for quite a while. Parity has arrived in WBB and I love it. Soon we will see upsets in the WBB tournaments just like we do in the men tournaments. Exciting times ahead!

Well parity for THIS year but starting NEXT year....

 

[LoTrader]

Well parity for THIS year but starting NEXT year....

What happens next year? As if I have to ask....there are other teams not named UCONN that have pretty darn good recruiting classes. I don't see one team dominating the WCBB landscape next year the way UCONN teams of past did for consecutive seasons.

 

[Jmsdawg]

Well parity for THIS year but starting NEXT year....

You think South Carolina, Baylor, MSST, Sanford, Oregon, UConn will not be stronger next year than this year? You may be in for a big surprise. I can see a dogfight for years to come.

 

[DaBball]

You think South Carolina, Baylor, MSST, Sanford, Oregon, UConn will not be stronger next year than this year? You may be in for a big surprise. I can see a dogfight for years to come.

Oregon will take a step back because that’s what happens when you lose a player like Ionescu. I don’t think a big step back, but definitely a step back. Hebard too.

South Carolina will lose Ty Harris and Herbert-Harrigan. They’ll still have a really solid core with Henderson, Cooke, Boston, Beal, Amihere, Saxton, Littleton and others, so it’ll be interesting to see. Even though they’ll lose Harris, Henderson should be ready to run the show with Cooke as her running mate. I don’t think the losses of Harris or Herbert-Harrigan will be felt a ton because they have some solid players on the bench.

 

[Reypl21]

Ah, how we love to cherry-pick our evidence.

Those 5 cupcake games were more than counterbalanced by the quality games on UConn's OOC schedule, including:

• #1 Baylor
• #3 Stanford
• #5 Duke
• #6 Penn State
• #10 Texas A&M
• #12 Maryland
• #14 Purdue

UConn's nonconference SOS that year was #5 and overall SOS was #2.

When was the last time Vic scheduled 7 top-15 teams in a season?
Has he even scheduled 7 top-15 teams in his entire career?

In addition, the Big East in 2013 was amazingly strong, sending 3 teams to the Final Four.

All that plus ND four times and Louisville and DePaul.

 

[Jmsdawg]

Not sure who you are talking about. I never said anything about thumping Oregon and don’t think too many other State fans did either. Much respect for the Oregon program. No lame excuse here. We lost twice to a team that was a little bit better than us last year.

I plead guilty. I did think MSST was the better team last year. We played both those games in Oregon before a very partial home crowd. I dare say UConn May have suffered a similar fate if the elite eight game was played in Kentucky. Home court means a lot in WBB.

 

[MSSportsGuy]

I plead guilty. I did think MSST was the better team last year. We played both those games in Oregon before a very partial home crowd. I dare say UConn May have suffered a similar fate if the elite eight game was played in Kentucky. Home court means a lot in WBB.

I disagree that we were better than Oregon last year. Playing in Portland definitely helped give them an edge but top to bottom the Ducks were better in my opinion.

UConn reloads significantly next year but they will be young. I do think we are at a point where no one program will dominate with a 111 game winning streak and 4 straight titles though.

 

[IWearShoes]

No, I won’t chill out when you tell a logical colleague to stop “beating a drum”, Especially on a thread about MSU in a UConn Board. Suck it up and own that Vic schedules cupcakes and that your team, while having had a nice run with a generational type player (for MSU anyway) Is not a foregone shoe-in for any more Final Fours in the near future. So it is not like playing these #300 rank teams at home helps you. Games AT Marquette do help your program. He should schedule more of those and then, maybe we could rally around “the Preacher”. Until then deal with the drum beats.

I didn't tell anybody to stop beating a drum. I said the cupcake speeches are old and tired. That's my opinion and it shouldn't be offensive unless you are very easily offended.

The rest of your post is more of the same overly confrontational type language and misinformation. Didn't indicate MSU doesn't play cupcakes or that they were any kind of shoe in for future Final Fours.

I'll trust Vic more than any internet personas to set up a schedule he sees as likely to best prepare his teams to compete for championships. He's done just fine since MSU arrived on the national scene.