Memphis Post Game Thread

[444JR]

We can't base our season on Mahaney learning how to become a very good point guard and improving a ton on defense. Newton is simply bigger than him, more physical, and was getting 5 assists per game before he came to UConn and he had the advantage of playing alongside Spencer and Castle who had size and could play point, and Jackson the year before who had size and could play point.

Weren't you the same poster that jumped all over me for saying that Mahaney shouldn't start because a backcourt of Mahaney and Diarra was too small? I'm glad you have seen the light, granted you are specifically talking about Mahaney at pg now. This will still be an incredible season, but we had unmatchable size+skill throughout the lineup the last two championship seasons.

Tangent: I have the utmost faith that Hurley, Kimani, Luke and Tom will get the right rotation sorted out with this group.

Nowell/Diarra/Mahaney
Solo/Ross/Mahaney
McNeeley/JStew/Ross
Karaban/JStew/McNeeley
Reed Jr./Samson/Karaban

A rotation like this, with Isaiah Abraham waiting in the wings if needed, feels closer to the "bullet proof" type of lineup we had last season; albeit without two top seven draft picks.

Excited to see how the team bounces back and if they coaching staff makes any adjustments to the rotation.

 

[superjohn]

I know you're being hyperbolically funny here, but it is undeniable that the kid has a solid fundamental skillset and has elite athleticism.

He only got 101 minutes of live game time last year, and only 3 games with over 10min. Almost all were garbage-time meaningless minutes

He came out of the gate strong to support the hype, but he's still obviously gonna need game reps to figure things completely out.

I expect him to pay important roles on D and O as we head into Big East play and beyond. And to show more flashes of play that remind us of the best of past UConn greats!

People compared him to Dr. J, Ray Allen, Reggie Lewis and someone said he's a guaranteed top 10 pick after this season and the best athlete he's ever seen at UConn.

This was based off of 14 points against UNH. They were really impressive minutes and his one baseline move was a big time NBA move but he has a ways to go and he was getting compared to all-time great NBA players based off of a cupcake game.

I like his longterm potential and he has really good athleticism, should become a really good defender, plus a shot that looks like it will be good but he still looks very raw. Handle looks loose, blow byes on defense, and he seems to be playing a little skittish.

 

[Hunt for 7]

I guess it is time to state the obvious, if you read through the posts in this thread. The recurring theme is we have a problem at the guard position.

Unfortunately, great guard play is what wins chips.

It is only one game but we need better guard play and that is not an opinion it is a fact. And I am not sure where it is going to come from which is a bigger concern.

 

[DRBackup]

Remind:

Two straight Nattys. Our cup is overflowing.

This team is not the team of the last two seasons, not close. Sooooo much inexperience. Who knows what the ceiling and the floor will be....it's a real mystery box. Maybe we become one of those squads that's truly positionless and just throws waves of wing players at you. It's worked before and might again.

And other teams don't stand still waiting for us to get our dookie together; there are more than a handful of title competitors that are better than we are right now either due to cohesion, talent, or both. Just let Hurley cook. If it happens it happens if not......eh. As long as we don't fall off a la 'Nova or UNC back in the day. And I don't think we will.

Another thing:

Memphis is an OLD TEAM. That's been a running conundrum in college basketball-do you go heavy High School and development, or heavy portal and experience? Hurley's preference is the former, at least for most of the roster. If we want to shift field we probably need to get a different coach and I will never be in that boat. Never. I hoped he would blow off the Lakers and when he did I was very happy. Still am.

Hurley's approach has consistently been a mix of 1) incoming high level youth, 2) development of returning players, and 3) infusion of experience through the portal.

1) Castle, Clingan, McNeeley, 2) Ball, Sanogo, Stewart, Jackson, and 3) Newton, Spencer, Reed, Diarra

 

[bmayuc]

Three working theories from the first 4 games that were validated by Memphis

1. Tarris Reed is much better than Samson, and needs to start. This will have the dual impact of improving our starts AND maximizing Samson in the role he's already proven to excel - change of pace big dunking on opponents 2nd team.

2. Our guards are much smaller than last year and physically weaker - so they can't get to their spots to initiate offense and then run through multiple iterations and get clear vision. I don't know the solution here, but its really gumming up the whole works. TNewt/Steph/Cam is a big, strong pack of ballhandlers. Mahaney, Diarra, Solo just needs to be stronger with the ball. Maybe this is why I like the idea of getting Ahmad Nowell minutes. I think he is the best and strongest ball handling guard on the roster.

3. Im kinda worried that Jayden is following in the same buzz/reality cycle as Samson. The missing ingredient with both is strength/ruggedness. You see the athleticism and skill package and get seduced by it - but lack of functional strength means the guys get tossed around when the intensity level rises in game conditions and they can't transfer their skillsets into production.

 

[FearThePups]

People will blame the refs, but that's secondary to me.

Our coach lost that game for us more than any player. That was an embarassment to the program, and a reversion fo 3 years ago. Massively disappointing. No player should be help accountable until Hurley apologizes to this team.

I've said it for a long time and taken a lot of flack. Samson simply isn't that good. Love the kid--but he isn't improving nearly enough. Start Reed.

Guard play will be our biggest weakness. Mahaney was suppsed to replace Tristen but has looked more like Joey California, unfortunately. I'm not really even seeing the flashes of brilliance you'd hope for from a guard making the transition to a new program. Diarra is a solid 6th-man, no doubt.

Pretty obvious we don’t have a lock down wrench like Stephon this year. I believe that’s what cost us this game. And Mahaney is no Cam.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Hurley has an emotional stake in his team so it’s understandable at least to some degree for him to get angry and agitated. Did he take it too far? Sure. Referees are not supposed to be that emotionally invested. I haven’t heard one explanation that changed my mind on the Ball getting elbowed play that went to the monitor replays. In my opinion, the officials let a grudge they had against Hurley allow a bad call to stand. And that’s not even touching on the Liam phantom over the back foul call. If there was ever a time for a good actual makeup call that was based on sound officiating, that was it.

Ball’s was the right call, Tarris’ was the wrong call, IMO at least.

 

[TheHorde]

Ball’s was the right call, Tarris’ was the wrong call, IMO at least.

Is Ball not entitled to his space? He was not “leaning in” as some claimed. He was in a defensive stance and the Memphis kid swung his elbows wildly in front of his body initiating the contact. Agree to disagree completely.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Is Ball not entitled to his space? He was not “leaning in” as some claimed. He was in a defensive stance and the Memphis kid swung his elbows wildly in front of his body initiating the contact. Agree to disagree completely.

He isn’t entitled to the offensive player’s cylinder, no.

 

[Zonepress]

Three working theories from the first 4 games that were validated by Memphis

1. Tarris Reed is much better than Samson, and needs to start. This will have the dual impact of improving our starts AND maximizing Samson in the role he's already proven to excel - change of pace big dunking on opponents 2nd team.

2. Our guards are much smaller than last year and physically weaker - so they can't get to their spots to initiate offense and then run through multiple iterations and get clear vision. I don't know the solution here, but its really gumming up the whole works. TNewt/Steph/Cam is a big, strong pack of ballhandlers. Mahaney, Diarra, Solo just needs to be stronger with the ball. Maybe this is why I like the idea of getting Ahmad Nowell minutes. I think he is the best and strongest ball handling guard on the roster.

3. Im kinda worried that Jayden is following in the same buzz/reality cycle as Samson. The missing ingredient with both is strength/ruggedness. You see the athleticism and skill package and get seduced by it - but lack of functional strength means the guys get tossed around when the intensity level rises in game conditions and they can't transfer their skillsets into production.

Agree with your assessment especially point number two

 

[FearThePups]

Well, the definition of "in the cylinder" changed from when it was called as a foul against Reed.

Hmmmm, what was the difference? The color of the jersey?

I thought the same thing. Inconsistent refereeing the whole game.

 

[TheHorde]

He isn’t entitled to the offensive player’s cylinder, no.

He was in his own space he was clerical not in the offensive player’s space. The offensive player swung his elbows FORWARD, which is why he connected with Ball’s jaw who was standing away from him.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

He was in his own space he was clerical not in the offensive player’s space. The offensive player swung his elbows FORWARD, which is why he connected with Ball’s jaw who was standing away from him.

Disagree, all good.

 

[Excalibur]

He isn’t entitled to the offensive player’s cylinder, no.

The cylinder doesn’t matter when elbows are being swung. Ball fouled him before he was hit, but the opposing player swung his elbows without pivoting. That is a dead ball personal foul.

 

[boog204]

2. Our guards are much smaller than last year and physically weaker - so they can't get to their spots to initiate offense and then run through multiple iterations and get clear vision. I don't know the solution here, but its really gumming up the whole works. TNewt/Steph/Cam is a big, strong pack of ballhandlers. Mahaney, Diarra, Solo just needs to be stronger with the ball. Maybe this is why I like the idea of getting Ahmad Nowell minutes. I think he is the best and strongest ball handling guard on the roster.

This is the key. We've been a dominant team the last two years because we had three big guards on the court. Newton, Hawkins, and Andre Natty One and Newton, Cam, and Castle Natty two. Those guys were strong enough and talented enough to basically play any of the perimeter positions and were completely interchangeable in role. Hurley when talking about the incoming recruits stressed that our guards this year were too small to run the alley-oop game with Samson and that he wanted to correct that with the incoming class. Without that wrinkle pretty much Samson's entire offensive game is removed.

I'm also a big fan of starting to acclimate Nowell in. He already looks like a stronger handler than any of the guards who get minutes and his athleticism is clearly better than two of the three.

 

[superjohn]

Is Ball not entitled to his space? He was not “leaning in” as some claimed. He was in a defensive stance and the Memphis kid swung his elbows wildly in front of his body initiating the contact. Agree to disagree completely.

I agree that the offensive player swung his elbow wildly but I think it may have been negated by Solo having at least one arm on the offensive player and maybe both of them on him. It was a bang bang play with Solo running up on him. Solo makes the first contact which most likely negated being in a legal defensive position. I don't have a real problem with the call but when elbows fly there in college games it's usually called a foul and a technical on the guy clearing space with the elbow if he makes contact with the face. I have a real problem with Tarris being called for a foul when his elbow made contact because that was a normal offensive move with the defender giving him no space to turn.

 

[FearThePups]

He may be our best option but that also may not be a good thing.

None of our great guards were no where near ready to run a show as freshman, hell even sophomores.

Did you forget about Khalid El Amin?

 

[TheHorde]

I agree that the offensive player swung his elbow wildly but I think it may have been negated by Solo having at least one arm on the offensive player and maybe both of them on him. It was a bang bang play with Solo running up on him. Solo makes the first contact which most likely negated being in a legal defensive position. I don't have a real problem with the call but when elbows fly there in college games it's usually called a foul and a technical on the guy clearing space with the elbow if he makes contact with the face. I have a real problem with Tarris being called for a foul when his elbow made contact because that was a normal offensive move with the defender giving him no space to turn.

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I hear you but the officials didn’t cite the original arm contact as being the reason they called the foul. I’m familiar with the rule. But I think the offensive player went beyond what could reasonably be construed as “his cylinder”. He took more than his space in my opinion. He leaned forward and swung his elbows to be able to connect with Ball’s jaw. Ball gave him enough room to move his elbows without contacting him UNLESS he leaned into Ball, which he did. I’d argue that they incorrectly applied or interpreted the cylinder rule there.

 

[superjohn]

I hear you but the officials didn’t cite the original arm contact as being the reason they called the foul.

They didn't?

 

[TheHorde]

They didn't?

Right they didn’t. I agree that the offensive player has the right to his space but when you lean forward into the defender and swing your elbows you aren’t in your “cylinder” any longer. You’re in the defender’s space.

 

[Excalibur]

They didn't?

They did. Then they refused to call the elbow based on the "cylinder" rule. Correct call was live ball foul on Ball for the reach/hack, dead ball personal on Memphis for the elbow.

 

[TheHorde]

They did. Then they refused to call the elbow based on the "cylinder" rule. Correct call was live ball foul on Ball for the reach/hack, dead ball personal on Memphis for the elbow.

At the worst they could have no called all of it. Solo got the worst of it obviously. But I don’t recall the contact causing the offensive player to lose possession of the ball, did it?

 

[superjohn]

They did. Then they refused to call the elbow based on the "cylinder" rule. Correct call was live ball foul on Ball for the reach/hack, dead ball personal on Memphis for the elbow.

I agree with that.

 

[boog204]

Did you forget about Khalid El Amin?

The famous story is that KEA "ran the show" on his recruiting visit. Dude was a killer.

 

[Excalibur]

Right they didn’t. I agree that the offensive player has the right to his space but when you lean forward into the defender and swing your elbows you aren’t in your “cylinder” any longer. You’re in the defender’s space.

The whistle clearly blew before the elbow.