Memory Check - Old Timers Only

[Prezidint]

I might just be getting really old and I might simply not remember well.

I started watching about 86.

From 86 to about the mid-2000s, I can't remember any UConn team that didn't play hard, with pride, buzzer to buzzer.

Since 04, I've felt as though we've had several teams that suffered from regular bouts of whattheduckitis.

04 we won, of course, but I remember being frustrated with that team at times, when they would lose to inferior opponents.

The 06 is legend, of course, for folding.

2010 folded like a poker player with 8 high at a 10 man table.

2012 now looks like another team that is pulling the giant el-foldo.

So help me out here - did I just forget the Calhoun teams pre 2004 that would quit at times and get out-worked regularly?

Or, sadly, have we just seen a sea change in how our players handle adversity. We've now had 3 teams in a 6 or 7 year stretch that played without much heart, and 2 of the last 3.

If so, what changed? The reason I fell in love with UConn basketball is because our teams, while usually underdogs, never rolled over. Never quit.

2010 was a brutal year to be a fan.
Last year offered redemption.
I'm finding 2012 and to be another brutal year to be a fan.

It's just not nearly as much fun as it used to be.

 

[willie99]

lots of teams had growing pains over the years, with the light bulbs usually going off sometime between the end of Jan through the end of Feb

I remember a Ray Allen team going into KU and getting smoked

we go to the NIT every 5th year on average

we've never been a program that's ranked every year, just 4 out of 5 or 3 out of 4

all our down years have the same thing in common with 1 exception. That common thread is youth, the exception was 2010.

 

[RuffRuff]

End of the day would you take an NC every 5-6 years for 2 or 3 years of whatthefuckitis? Unlike a Calipari who seems to know how to get through to the frosh types, its never seemed to be Calhouns strength. His in your face bobby knight stuff seems like it needs a year or two for a kid to callous up to.

 

[Yonick]

Between the 1st Seton Hall game, that Louisville game, the 2nd half of the Georgetown game, and yesterdays game, I've never seen Calhoun coached teams lay down like this.
Some of the teams you mention since '04 have underachieved. But playing poorly, and laying down are two completely different matters.
If Boeheim really said , to his team, "if you punch them first they'll lay down" he was absolutely right. I honestly don't know if another years experience can help this team, or not. I doubt a frosh can step in and lead right away. Napier's comments might have been correct, but he has contributed to the problem, too, in certain games. Making a public statement, and singling out Olender, even if true, won't endure him to his teammates.
Maybe it's best to clear out this team, and start anew. With players and coaches. JC has earned the right to stay as long as he wishes. But, with his health, and the inconsistent seasons over the past 6+ years, a change might be best for this program. Even if it means we take a backseat for 2-3 years.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

God almighty. Just because you don't win a National Title or go to a final 4 doesn't mean you don't have heart. Get a dose of reality man. If its easier for yyou deal with the losing by claiming we didn't have heart, just keep it to yourself. I hate seeing people like you trash OUR kids on OUR message board.

So a little humility and respect.

 

[Fishy]

On the topic of youth, if you have to use Kentucky or Calipari to make your argument, you've already lost.

Calipari is bringing an entirely different level of kid onto campus than Calhoun does. I'm not sure anyone can bring in the talent that Calipari does.

Going by ESPN's rankings, Kentucky's 2011 class included the top ranked point guard, small forward and power forward available. He also added the fifth best power forward. In 2010, he had the 2nd best point guard (went pro), the 2nd best small forward and sixth-best shooting guard.

When he stretches past those top ranked kids into merely top-100 kids, (Stacey Poole, Jon Hood), he doesn't seem to have the same ability to 'get through to frosh types'.

 

[Prezidint]

God almighty. Just because you don't win a National Title or go to a final 4 doesn't mean you don't have heart.

I call this "arguing to the extreme."

I say to my wife, "you could be a bit more organized with the checkbook," and she responds with, "oh, so now I'm some dumb woman who can't do math?"

How did you get to National Title or Final 4 from my post, you adorable lunatic?

Point out that losing to Marquette, at home, with little hustle, little heart, and obvious dissension among the players is caused by lack of heart is not me complaining that we didn't get to the final four.

Did you watch the game son?

 

[Prezidint]

End of the day would you take an NC every 5-6 years for 2 or 3 years of whattheduckitis?

Tough call.
I loved watching UConn ball for 14 years without having won it all.

To have to go through a 2010 and a 2012 to get the 2011 is, really, not an easy call for me, as I'm not in the ring-collection business - I'm a fan. Watching the young men play as hard as they can is more enjoyable to me than winning. I did not enjoy watching the 06 team. It would have been more enjoyable to see a bunch of fighters go down in the round of 16 then to see what I saw.

 

[mets1090]

Tough call.
I loved watching UConn ball for 14 years without having won it all.

To have to go through a 2010 and a 2012 to get the 2011 is, really, not an easy call for me, as I'm not in the ring-collection business - I'm a fan. Watching the young men play as hard as they can is more enjoyable to me than winning. I did not enjoy watching the 06 team. It would have been more enjoyable to see a bunch of fighters go down in the round of 16 then to see what I saw.

How much fun was it to watch them grow from the 06-07 season to the 08-09 season though? And if you take out the NCAA/APR nonsense and either Lamb or Drummond came back next year (I don't think either will or even would if it was clear there would be no ban next year, but just for arguments sake), this team would likely be a formidable squad next year, so watching them grow through this season would be satisfying as well.

Edit: Sorry, I'm not an old timer. But I do appreciate what it means to see a team fight and grow together and how much fun that can be to watch as a fan despite the fact that I've only known UConn as a national power.

 

[Henry]

Been watching since 1980. I agree with original poster. I have never seen such lackluster effort as over the past 6-7 years. I don't care about losing but it matters how you look doing it. Being close to Syracuse and Marquette and then losing by 15-20? Not acceptable.

 

[mets1090]

I think that this is part of the overall culture of AAU and High School basketball moreso now than it ever was before the last decade or so. This is especially why it takes 2 or 3 years for kids to fully come into their own under Calhoun. He really has to punish the lazy me-first AAU culture out of them.

 

[RuffRuff]

On the topic of youth, if you have to use Kentucky or Calipari to make your argument, you've already lost.

Calipari is bringing an entirely different level of kid onto campus than Calhoun does. I'm not sure anyone can bring in the talent that Calipari does.

Going by ESPN's rankings, Kentucky's 2011 class included the top ranked point guard, small forward and power forward available. He also added the fifth best power forward. In 2010, he had the 2nd best point guard (went pro), the 2nd best small forward and sixth-best shooting guard.

When he stretches past those top ranked kids into merely top-100 kids, (Stacey Poole, Jon Hood), he doesn't seem to have the same ability to 'get through to frosh types'.

Not really about the W/L's with the matter as much as it is with response to the style. It's not often you see Calipari get in the face of a kid and blow up - bit more a nurturer and seems to get his kids to play hard without the scare tactics. I don't see Calipari yanking kids after 30 seconds for one bad play. He allows them to play through it and build confidence. Calhoun takes a bit more of the break you down, build trust, build you back up angle. Freshman don't have the chance to go through the break you down phase of the JC learning curve. Just saying - Calhoun, for all the great he is, could never thrive in that Calipari system. He's old school, has his personal psychological system and it's not built for a group of frosh/soph's to thrive.

 

[CL82]

I call this "arguing to the extreme."

I say to my wife, "you could be a bit more organized with the checkbook," and she responds with, "oh, so now I'm some dumb woman who can't do math?"

How did you get to National Title or Final 4 from my post, you adorable lunatic?

Point out that losing to Marquette, at home, with little hustle, little heart, and obvious dissension among the players is caused by lack of heart is not me complaining that we didn't get to the final four.

Did you watch the game son?

Prez, if you have to name call to make a point, you have no point.

No one is happy with this team's results this year. I agree with your point that I've can remember a Calhoun coached team laying down like this. There have been frustrating years, but I do feel like this year is different. Yes, these guys don't seem to have the grit of JC coached team. I suspect the two biggest factors contributing to that are that 1) they are young, and 2) Calhoun has been missing a huge chunk of the season and pain even when he was here.

I do think it is very hard to justify a post complaining about how disppointed you were in 2010 and 2011 when there was a (unacknowleged) National Championship wedged right in the middle of those years. I get it - you are not having a fun, but being a fan means that you support your team, even when it's not "fun." In fact the down years are what makes great years oh so sweet.

All those who count us down and out would be well advised to remember this phrase:

 

[Prezidint]

Prez, if you have to name call to make a point, you have no point.

Ordinarily I would agree, but not when it's written by a foofy-head like you.

 

[Prezidint]

being a fan means that you support your team, even when it's not "fun."

I'd change that to ". . . even when they're losing." Which I do. Very well. I was a Mets fan for 18 years before Doc Gooden came along.

But when it's not fun, and you're still watching, that's not being a fan, that's being an auto-masochist.

 

[uconnbill]

As someone who has been watching since the mid 70's when Tony Hanson was at UConn. I will say it seems that this team just gets down on itself more when they get behind than other teams under Calhoun. The talent is there, but are they playing as a team, no.
In all honesty they need another year together but that more than likely won't happen which is sad.

 

[Yonick]

God almighty. Just because you don't win a National Title or go to a final 4 doesn't mean you don't have heart. Get a dose of reality man. If its easier for yyou deal with the losing by claiming we didn't have heart, just keep it to yourself. I hate seeing people like you trash OUR kids on OUR message board.

So a little humility and respect.

I don't expect a NC every year, chief...If I see something that's disturbing, I'm going to say it. Let's face it, this isn't a commie nation or board. As far as YOU your internet shouting comment on " OUR kids/ OURmessage board," I've been a huge fan since the mid 50's. If I don't like what MY team does, I'm going to say it. If you don't like that....TOUGH!!! "

 

[RuffRuff]

PreZ, dont know you from a hole in the wall, but based on your writing style on this message board, just envision someone that looks like Carrot Top - I get a kick out of it.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I don't expect a NC every year, chief...If I see something that's disturbing, I'm going to say it. Let's face it, this isn't a commie nation or board. As far as YOU your internet shouting comment on " OUR kids/ OURmessage board," I've been a huge fan since the mid 50's. If I don't like what MY team does, I'm going to say it. If you don't like that....TOUGH!!! "

LOL, you're probably one of the old bags at the games who wears the collared shirt underneath the crew neck UConn sweatshirts that complains about the team not playing the "right way". The guys are trying, it's just been a tough season. You want undefeated seasons with no competition, go watch the womens team.

Have a little humility and show some class, for as I refer to them OUR kids, and just support them. It doesn't mean you can't call them out for a bad play, bad game or mental errors, but to say they don't have heart or aren't trying just makes you look like some ignorant front running UConn fan - which unfortunately is like 50% of our fanbase.....To think the same kids that won a BE Title and an NCAA Title less than a year ago aren't trying hard and don't have heart, quite frankly makes you look like an ignorant moron...CHIEF! lol

 

[businesslawyer]

I especially like the bashing of the '06 team. Big East regular season champion. Top 5 team all year and number 1 for part of it. Won at Maui without Marcus Williams. Made the Regional Final. And lost in OT to a team not as good as UConn but playing way overe its heads in front of a home crowd. Oh -- and that team had only one player who was anything more than marginal at the next level, and he was a timid freshman.

Crushing loss to Mason? Unless you were in the traffic trying to get up I-95 and home that night and not moving, don't think you felt it more than I did. But that team over the course or the season gave you pain? Why do you watch?

 

[tzznandrew]

I especially like the bashing of the '06 team. Big East regular season champion. Top 5 team all year and number 1 for part of it. Won at Maui without Marcus Williams. Made the Regional Final. And lost in OT to a team not as good as UConn but playing way overe its heads in front of a home crowd. Oh -- and that team had only one player who was anything more than marginal at the next level, and he was a timid freshman.

Crushing loss to Mason? Unless you were in the traffic trying to get up I-95 and home that night and not moving, don't think you felt it more than I did. But that team over the course or the season gave you pain? Why do you watch?

It's amazing. That team lost two games during the regular season. Then they lost in OT to a desperate Syracuse team in the BET.

Their NCAA run to the Elite 8 gave us more heartburn then necessary, but it is difficult to get to the Elite 8.

That team always showed up for the big games--or at least the games they thought were big. If they got by Mason, they win the title. Sadly, Brown's 3 didn't go down.

 

[Danzz]

Any

I might just be getting really old and I might simply not remember well.

I started watching about 86.

From 86 to about the mid-2000s, I can't remember any UConn team that didn't play hard, with pride, buzzer to buzzer.

Since 04, I've felt as though we've had several teams that suffered from regular bouts of whattheduckitis.

04 we won, of course, but I remember being frustrated with that team at times, when they would lose to inferior opponents.

The 06 is legend, of course, for folding.

2010 folded like a poker player with 8 high at a 10 man table.

2012 now looks like another team that is pulling the giant el-foldo.

So help me out here - did I just forget the Calhoun teams pre 2004 that would quit at times and get out-worked regularly?

Or, sadly, have we just seen a sea change in how our players handle adversity. We've now had 3 teams in a 6 or 7 year stretch that played without much heart, and 2 of the last 3.

If so, what changed? The reason I fell in love with UConn basketball is because our teams, while usually underdogs, never rolled over. Never quit.

2010 was a brutal year to be a fan.
Last year offered redemption.
I'm finding 2012 and to be another brutal year to be a fan.

It's just not nearly as much fun as it used to be.

Chuck Alexsinas used to quit or never get sarted.

 

[Dogbreath2U]

I especially like the bashing of the '06 team. Big East regular season champion. Top 5 team all year and number 1 for part of it. Won at Maui without Marcus Williams. Made the Regional Final. And lost in OT to a team not as good as UConn but playing way overe its heads in front of a home crowd. Oh -- and that team had only one player who was anything more than marginal at the next level, and he was a timid freshman.

Crushing loss to Mason? Unless you were in the traffic trying to get up I-95 and home that night and not moving, don't think you felt it more than I did. But that team over the course or the season gave you pain? Why do you watch?

I agree, the actual anger and nastiness toward the 2006 team is pretty strange when you think about it. Great season, but a flawed team in terms of the makeup, with only one ballhandler. I think that the level of disappointment that is felt by some fans determines the way that the players are remembered, not the actual play. Marcus Williams was just great that year, carried a huge load, and is rarely remembered on The Boneyard as a top Husky PG. I wonder if we are not only spoiled by the Huskies success under Calhoun, but also addicted to it. When we don't get our fix, we lash out. We have fans who seriously think that it is reasonable to expect the team to win the title every year.

 

[Prezidint]

I agree, the actual anger and nastiness toward the 2006 team is pretty strange when you think about it. Great season, but a flawed team in terms of the makeup, with only one ballhandler.

You're a revisionist.

I don't pretend to speak for others on this board, but that certainly was never my complaint with the 06 team. My complaint was that they never seemed to bring 100% effort. They played relaxed. That's what killed them. You look at the make-up of that team, and "chemistry" doesn't explain the mediocre play.

And to sum up the 06 team by saying, "they made it to the EE" is ridiculous.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they struggled mightily against the 1st round team, and, IIRC, against Washington in the SS we had all the calls go our way, including a few questionable ones down the stretch, and we got lucky to win on a last second shot by DB.

I will always remember the 06 team as the greatest underachievers under Calhoun. That's what always sat poorly with me - the fact that they did so little with so much talent.

The claim that the issue was that the team "only had 1 ballhandler" is a Boneyard Myth and is ridiculous.

That team had Senior D. Brown, Rashad Andersen, and Hilty. A junior Marcus Williams and Boone, and a sophmore Rudy Gay.

The issue wasn't ball handling, the issue was effort. That team had more talent and experience than the 2011 team by a huge margin, and struggled to get past the 1st round as a 1 seed.

That's why the 06 team is somewhat infamous around here.

Marcus Williams, BTW, was great.

 

[The Funster]

Can we put these supposedly "halcyon days" of UConn basketball in it's proper perspective? I seem to remember a lot of "This team can't play offense. All they do is stand around and watch (Smith, Allen, Hamilton, Gordon) create his own shot. They can't play half court defense all they have is that gimmick press. UConn can't win unless we turn it into a track meet. Ricky Moore is the only player that can play defense." The fanbase criticized Ben Gordon and savaged Taliek Brown THE YEAR WE WON OUR 2ND NC! I could go on, season by season and recall criticisms for each and every UConn team if I wanted to.

My point would not be to criticize the fanbase for those criticisms but to point out that each teams had flaws, didn't have a target on their backs and had a relatively light burden of expectation on them back then. Again, as I said in another thread, no one is happy with the way the team is playing but don't invoke some mythical history to somehow support that point. The landscape in men's hoops has been constantly changing. I would say that UConn was THE team to show the others how to break into the big time. The proliferation of college hoops games have helped other teams raise their level as well. If anything, one could say that UConn has become a victim of it's own success. We just have to deal with it.