Mel Kiper and Todd McShay: "How did UConn give up any points?"
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We needed less 3 and outs to survive. That also never happened. I don't think many people expected them to put up Oregon like numbers, but they were one of the worst in offensives in college football.
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The D was great last year, but if they showed up against Western Michigan or didn't lay down against Temple on that last drive.....
At this point I'm glad we lost those two games, if we went to a bowl DeLeone might still be in charge of our offense, what a horrible thought.
At this point I'm glad we lost those two games, if we went to a bowl DeLeone might still be in charge of our offense, what a horrible thought.
Dooley
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This is exactly right. Our offense had to be in the top 10 of 3 and outs this past season. I think we even had a couple of 2 and outs.
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What's good Irish Loop? Surely not your defense of Deleone and the offensive scheme. Getting sensitive again doesn't work very well here or in the papers.
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Louisville was the best passing team in the league, and threw for the most touchdowns. They were 4th in total defense and 5th in scoring defense. They won the league, and beat Florida in the Sugar Bowl. Their defense was not as good as Florida's.
Defense wins Championships, sometimes.
Husky25
Dink & Dunk beat the Greatest Show on Turf.
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You're blaming Temple on the defense? The defense should have never been in that position.
The question asked by the draft-niks was how UConn gave up points, not how did they lose any games. The offense is irrelevent except to point out that UConn's Time of Possession was worse than lacking. It was stated correctly above: The defense was solid, but they gave up points because they were on the field for 45 minutes a game.
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The WRs were fine, the QB was fine, the TEs were better than fine, and I bet we'll find out this year that the OL was good too--when put in position to be good.
I do have my doubts about RB though, and that's the only spot on which I might agree with IrishLoop. It's beyond me how a school with Terry Caulley, Brockington, Andre Dixon, Donald Brown and Todman gets itself in such a situation at a key position.
I do have my doubts about RB though, and that's the only spot on which I might agree with IrishLoop. It's beyond me how a school with Terry Caulley, Brockington, Andre Dixon, Donald Brown and Todman gets itself in such a situation at a key position.
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Hey, good point, I really appreciate your highly technical response, as well as the plethora of evidence you provided to back up your claims. I am quite certain that you will probably win some kind of award for this well thought-out post where you finally proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that anybody who disagrees with you is an idiot, good sir.
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if you have 4-5 pros playing on your defense and they are all juniors/seniors yet you don't win half your games playing a mediocre schedule then:
1) the other six players are probably not very good
2) the offense is probably not very good
3) the coaching staff did not scheme well
I think all of those are true to a certain extent. the offense was awful, no way to sugar coat that. there are no pros there and the coaching was terrible. there is not a ton of talent coming back on defense, at least not multiple guys who you immediately think "he's gonna be a pro." And finally, teams beat UConn's defense last year by exploiting the safeties deep and isolating linebackers underneath on crossing patterns (a lot of teams get exploited this way). I think UConn's defensive coaching was sound but not very flexible and teams would exploit them late in games because uconn never really changed their packages much. Plus, uconn's d was not deep and often got worn out late in games, especially since the O couldn't stay on the field.
1) the other six players are probably not very good
2) the offense is probably not very good
3) the coaching staff did not scheme well
I think all of those are true to a certain extent. the offense was awful, no way to sugar coat that. there are no pros there and the coaching was terrible. there is not a ton of talent coming back on defense, at least not multiple guys who you immediately think "he's gonna be a pro." And finally, teams beat UConn's defense last year by exploiting the safeties deep and isolating linebackers underneath on crossing patterns (a lot of teams get exploited this way). I think UConn's defensive coaching was sound but not very flexible and teams would exploit them late in games because uconn never really changed their packages much. Plus, uconn's d was not deep and often got worn out late in games, especially since the O couldn't stay on the field.
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Christ will you look at GDL's track record at his previous stops? You keep asking for evidence and it's staring at you in the face. Unless you're gonna make the case that GDL has the most unfortunate set of circumstances in which most of the offensive players in his system suck. At every stop. For the last couple of decades.
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I've looked at GDL's track record. He was the OC during Syracuse's run from 1987 to 1996. He had some very good seasons there. Have you ever actually looked? Dude won a Fiesta Bowl, unlike your good buddy Randy Edsall. (http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/deleone_george00.html)
See, the thing about facts is that you can't just make them up. The dude was a part of some very successful Syracuse teams, whether you admit it or not. The facts are the facts. You can't change them simply because you don't like Desmond Conner and John Silver.
I look at our O-line and it's not obvious to me that it's scheme vs. talent. I ask for evidence.
What I get in response is the same snarky BS without evidence as per usual. Which I assure you I am super impressed by. I mean, really.
The only evidence you have was some bad seasons at Syracuse and our last 2 years at UConn. Given his history of success at Syracuse, that's not really evidence. So what's left is UConn. And in the last two years, as opposed to the years before that, we had different personnel at O-line, as well as a new scheme. Multiple variables. Is it talent? Is it scheme? How can you tell?
The only thing you've proven is that you don't really get what the word evidence means.
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I'm not buying this story either that the defense outside of the 4 guys was not very good. Yawin Smallwood, Jory Johnson, Stephen, Worth, Campenni, TyMeer Brown, Jones, Mack, Jesse Joseph (until hurt). That was the supporting cast for the 4 at the combine.
And to say there are no pros on offense is going way to far. We don't know if kids like Ryan Griffin are going to make it. He just might. Who knows about Masters.
And to say there are no pros on offense is going way to far. We don't know if kids like Ryan Griffin are going to make it. He just might. Who knows about Masters.
sdhusky
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"While working with the offensive line at SU, five of his players were drafted by the NFL and as offensive coordinator, five players were named first team All-American. Syracuse won three BIG EAST Championships during DeLeone's tenure there"
Maybe he just had 5 more talented guys???
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1999: Syracuse 80th in nation in total offense (335), 39th rushing, 88th passing
2000: Syracuse 52nd in total offense, 18th rushing, 92nd passing
2001: Syracuse 93rd in total offense, 41st rushing, 98th passing (the heralded 10-3 season)
2002: Syracuse 54th in total offense, 34th rushing, 79th passing (4-8)
2003: Syracuse 70th total offense, 26th rushing, 91st passing (6-6)
2004: Syracuse 78th total offense, 31st rushing, 100th passing
2006: Temple 118th in total offense, 118 rushing, 98 passing
2007: Temple 112th in total offense, 108 rushing, 73 passing
2000: Syracuse 52nd in total offense, 18th rushing, 92nd passing
2001: Syracuse 93rd in total offense, 41st rushing, 98th passing (the heralded 10-3 season)
2002: Syracuse 54th in total offense, 34th rushing, 79th passing (4-8)
2003: Syracuse 70th total offense, 26th rushing, 91st passing (6-6)
2004: Syracuse 78th total offense, 31st rushing, 100th passing
2006: Temple 118th in total offense, 118 rushing, 98 passing
2007: Temple 112th in total offense, 108 rushing, 73 passing
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In 2005, GDL held the postions of OL Coach and Run Game Coordinator at Ole Miss. That year they finished 118 out of 119 teams rushing for a paltry 806 yards at a 2.4 ypc clip.
These guys made their living riding Dick MacPherson's coattails.
These guys made their living riding Dick MacPherson's coattails.
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There's no reason the team last year could not have run the ball better than it did. If the coaches had committed to do that the offense would have been much better off. It was never going to be a high powered offense, but it could have been a middle of the country type of offense with multiple RBs banging away. Had we done that, with the defense that was in place and the schedule it was an 8-9 win season.
It's only one example, but the wildcat was a complete and utter disaster. Meanwhile, Hypolite and Delorenzo ride the bench while we hand the ball off 20-25 times a game to a 150 LB RB. Defenses then know they have no running game to respect and send the house. Total disaster and 100% coaching.
It's only one example, but the wildcat was a complete and utter disaster. Meanwhile, Hypolite and Delorenzo ride the bench while we hand the ball off 20-25 times a game to a 150 LB RB. Defenses then know they have no running game to respect and send the house. Total disaster and 100% coaching.
sdhusky
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It is simply amazing the defense of GDL in this thread. If he was such a genius at implementing a pro blocking scheme he'd be an OC in the NFL.
His biggest mistake was trying to implement a system that few college teams use with huge success, especially right out of the gate.
A good coach evaluates the talent and then implements a system focusing on their strengths.
He did not have the talent to implement a very complicated system. He decided not to bring it in slowly and p*ssed off most of the OL who just lost their position coach they would take a bullet for.
If Foley was the OL coach I find it hard to believe the UConn power blocking style does not work. We run better and then we pass better.
If he ever had people skills he apparently lost them. Most coaches can be dicks but they also know everybody is motivated differently.
His biggest mistake was trying to implement a system that few college teams use with huge success, especially right out of the gate.
A good coach evaluates the talent and then implements a system focusing on their strengths.
He did not have the talent to implement a very complicated system. He decided not to bring it in slowly and p*ssed off most of the OL who just lost their position coach they would take a bullet for.
If Foley was the OL coach I find it hard to believe the UConn power blocking style does not work. We run better and then we pass better.
If he ever had people skills he apparently lost them. Most coaches can be dicks but they also know everybody is motivated differently.
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You make an interesting point but I don't think you've proven it.
1. "If GDL is such a genius at such and such, he'd be successful in the NFL." Like Nick Saban was? College != Pros. One could be a successful coach in the NCAA's without having the ability to transfer it to the NFL.
2. "Few college teams use zone blocking scheme, as it's too complicated." From what I can tell, zone blocking is definitely used by some major universities. Not sure if Syracuse used it when GDL was successful (this actually happened, btw). Minnesota, Michigan, and Iowa use it. Also, have you heard of this school, Alabama? According to this article on Grantland, the scholars down in Tuscaloosa have figured it out, but maybe it's a little too advanced for UConn players.
3. "UConn does better with power blocking." Maybe, but you haven't shown it. You could've just as easily shown that an OL with Zach Hurd, Will Beatty, and Adam Masters is better than one without them. Which I suspect is probably true.
Again, I'm not saying GDL is the greatest OC ever. I'm just challenging the conventional Boneyard Knowledge that our offensive problems are strictly scheme and we have all kinds of offensive talent that's gone to waste.
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Part of the problem is that you're asking for proof of something that can't necessarily be proven one way or the other.
Do I think we had talent issues on offense (OL in particular) that date back to the previous regime? Yes I do.
Do I think GDL is an unmitigated disaster of OC/OL coach based on his most recent track record? Yes I do.
But how do either of us "prove" our points? This is not a crime scene on CSI for . Sometimes, all it takes is for you to watch something with your own 2 eyes.
IMind
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I disagree with the OL talent issue... but you're right about the lack of evidence. I think we have lost some depth on the offensive line and injuries plagued us... but Foley has had excellent OLs since he came here in 2006 and before that excellent OLs at Colgate. I mean we went from 22nd in the country in sacks allowed to 113th last year and 98th this year. It's hard to believe that the talent we brought in suddenly became that much worse. I honestly think about the only two positions the prior regime didn't excel at developing were at WR and QB. We've had OLs all over NFL camp rosters over the last few years and Donald Thomas and Will Beatty didn't just come from blind luck.
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Fair enough. That's kind of my point. You can't prove it. Which is fine. But the problem is that the Boneyard Mob basically says that anybody who disagrees is an idiot. I have said countless times that I don't think GDL is a great OC, but people act like I'm some kind of idiot because I also think we have some glaring offensive talent issues, and that Desmond Conner and John Silver are moronic hacks because they don't repeat the same "It's all GDL" nonsense.
I'm just saying that it's okay to take a nuanced view of things. I don't think everything is as black and white as everybody pretends it is.
jbdphi
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A couple of points going back to the original premise. I know most people understand this, but there is this thing called hyperbole. Announcers use it a lot to make or stress a point. It doesn't mean something on a straight literal sense. Instead of asking how we gave up any points, it would have been a lot better if someone had said "You know, UConn had a legit Top 20 defense in all of college football last year and these four guys we're seeing here today are some of the biggest reasons."
Secondly, with respect to the time of possession arguments earlier in this thread, I know I'm making a mistake by trying to make a point with facts, but UConn was actually in the top half of the league in terms of TOP with almost 31 minutes. The top team in the country was Rice with almost 34 minutes. There may have been certain games where our defense was on the field more than usual but on average, that was definitely not the case. Our defense was very good but they weren't perfect - anyone who expects perfection (that isn't an Alabama fan) will always end up being disappointed.
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