Maryland Post Game Izzo Presser

[Kembacity]

Its amazing to me how many MSU fans are willfully ignorant to an insane degree on this. They say since no one was charged with rape, they didn't rape anyone. Not understanding that the fact Walton was charged with littering for punching a woman in the face for not respecting him sending her to the hospital with a concussion, and Payne's own words on tape show he shouldn't have been playing basketball.

I literally had a guy reply to me with a link to the women suing UConn for not doing enough in response to their assaults, as though since UConn had a rape problem, I can't criticize a different college's athletic department and staff for covering up rape by their athletes... I didn't think MSU fans were West Virginia dumb, but here we are

 

[J187Money]

The thing that gets me more than any of it is how this wasn't caught by someone. Campus PD records are public information.Like how SOMETHING wasn't flagged earlier and pursued more - aby anyone - be in the administration itself, the school, the media - it's astonishing. This wasn't a quiet thing. This was rampant.

And to boot - what a terrible year for college basketball and particularly old Big East teams. Good in a way, because so much cleaning up needs to be done and that's what's really important. But this will demolish Michigan State as a program. UConn's in free fall. Louisville is toast for the forseeable future. Syracuse seems like a mired mess. Georgetown is a shattered mess. Pitt is entirely uncompetitive and BC is an active disaster. Providence has underperformed and lost to freaking UMass. Then the FBI probe I don't think has even scratched the surface. Just sad, that's all.

Because the names were redacted. ESPN had to go to the Michigan Supreme Court to FORCE MSU to give them copies of the records with names.

 

[Dogdeacon]

What really bothers me is that it has been years that these stories and rumors have been out there and the college basketball media largely ignored the story because Tom Izzo was one of their favorites. Now that he is considered fair game they are like vultures circling the carcass. Maybe they should look in the mirror and think consider if they regret the way they acted as well

Huh? These are people doing a job, its somewhat true that they respond, write, investigate and report what the public wants - because that's their job to sell newspapers/attract eyeballs. Its not like reporters received fat contracts b/c they glossed over problems or didn't do their job thoroughly enough - whereas lots of MState administrators and coaches were. AND THEIR JOB IS TO LOOK AFTER THESE STUDENTS/KIDS! Lots of people had a role in this long debacle, but to simultaneously blame reporters for not investigating it thoroughly enough and then digging in too deep once it breaks is hypocritical. Why do reporters need to be held accountable? They were not in charge and missing a story is far different than covering one up. Multiple people at MState favored the accused over victims, the media covers these things mostly for fans of the team - so its hardly surprising that fans reward the good stories. Does the UConn board jump all over Jeff Jacobs?! We don't want to hear it. We know our athlete 'heroes' might not be role models or even good people, we primarily care about their performance on the court - after that just stay out of the news would be 90% of fans perspective.

So we never cared/read/clicked before either. For example I never read the stories that started coming out 1-year+ ago about USA gymnastics cuz I thought, duh - just look at those girls every Olympics - the sport obviously is insular and obsessive and you can read it on almost every gymnast's face. MState football & basketball is in trouble b/c of gymnastics unveiled a systemic problem, but bigger fan bases of those sports were equally complicit in looking the other way and wanting to believe their program was clean.

 

[Penfield]

Huh? These are people doing a job, its somewhat true that they respond, write, investigate and report what the public wants - because that's their job to sell newspapers/attract eyeballs. Its not like reporters received fat contracts b/c they glossed over problems or didn't do their job thoroughly enough - whereas lots of MState administrators and coaches were. AND THEIR JOB IS TO LOOK AFTER THESE STUDENTS/KIDS! Lots of people had a role in this long debacle, but to simultaneously blame reporters for not investigating it thoroughly enough and then digging in too deep once it breaks is hypocritical. Why do reporters need to be held accountable? They were not in charge and missing a story is far different than covering one up. Multiple people at MState favored the accused over victims, the media covers these things mostly for fans of the team - so its hardly surprising that fans reward the good stories. Does the UConn board jump all over Jeff Jacobs?! We don't want to hear it. We know our athlete 'heroes' might not be role models or even good people, we primarily care about their performance on the court - after that just stay out of the news would be 90% of fans perspective.

So we never cared/read/clicked before either. For example I never read the stories that started coming out 1-year+ ago about USA gymnastics cuz I thought, duh - just look at those girls every Olympics - the sport obviously is insular and obsessive and you can read it on almost every gymnast's face. MState football & basketball is in trouble b/c of gymnastics unveiled a systemic problem, but bigger fan bases of those sports were equally complicit in looking the other way and wanting to believe their program was clean.

Sorry. I didn't mean to make it sound like I think the journalists were more to blame than the coaches or administrators. I don't think that is the case at all.

As a journalist one of your jobs is to hold people in power accountable, and in general they gave Izzo a pass in 2009 & 2010. The local media may have picked up the story about Appling, Payne, and the accusations (I remember reading something when we were going to play them in the final four), but the national media largely ignored the story. Four years later all we saw were fluff pieces about Payne.

 

[ghostmutt]

Spartan Life Student Handbook - Article 4: Non-Academic Hearing Board Structures

This is the link to Michigan State Student Life’s Article 4, “Non-Academic Hearing Board Structures.” These articles govern the process for selecting a hearing board that would render a verdict on student misconduct (non-academic) and resulting punishments.

There are four classifications for hearing boards, dependent upon the nature of the complaint. All hearing boards adjudicate “personal misconduct.”

The hearing boards may be comprised of 1) undergraduate and graduate students only; or, 2) undergraduate students, graduate students, staff, and faculty. The nature of the person or groups of persons responding to the complaint partly determines the composition of students, faculty, and staff on the hearing board.

One key question is if the alleged sexual assault attributed to Payne and Appling took place in 1) campus housing (governed by the MSU Residence Halls Association); 2) Greek housing (governed by...unclear from linked document); or 3) an off-campus location.

I worked in Student Affairs at a B1G private university for three years. My university held a mandatory education session on sexual assault during its six-day orientation for first-year students. The training session used role play (performance) and lecture to help the students define consent under state law and gauge the level of sexually suggestive interaction at which a large group (maybe 600 attending) would indicate that consent to sex had been violated.

The alleged sexual assault took place after the female complainant completed her new student orientation. It is not clear whether Appling and Payne, who were freshman at the time of the alleged crime, completed their orientations.

That’s presuming that MSU offered sexual assault awareness and prevention education during their 2010 first-year orientation, which I don’t know.

Bottom line: The police needed to report the assault to...judicial affairs...student conduct office...really unclear which department and which administrator from this document. But once reported, all three parties to the complaint needed to immediately be advised of their rights to a hearing within the University’s judicial system.

No word yet on whether the kids actually read their Student Rights and Responsibilities, which might have influenced the immediate fallout after the alleged crime.

 

[Dove]

He should have went Mark McGwire on that reporter.

Also, kudos to that reporter for drilling into him like that.

 

[Doginaus]

What really bothers me is that it has been years that these stories and rumors have been out there and the college basketball media largely ignored the story because Tom Izzo was one of their favorites. Now that he is considered fair game they are like vultures circling the carcass. Maybe they should look in the mirror and think consider if they regret the way they acted as well

one has to have a heart to regret ones actions, something the media is sincerely lacking.

 

[Towney007]

Because the names were redacted. ESPN had to go to the Michigan Supreme Court to FORCE MSU to give them copies of the records with names.

But it's public information. You can't hide it. I'm sure they tried to once ESPN showed up and rightfully weren't allowed to by the court.

But before that. Anyone who wants a lot of this info can get it. And even if you can't get all of it, SOMETHING has to fall through the cracks that makes people raise an eyebrow.

 

[Adios]

Sorry. I didn't mean to make it sound like I think the journalists were more to blame than the coaches or administrators. I don't think that is the case at all.

As a journalist one of your jobs is to hold people in power accountable, and in general they gave Izzo a pass in 2009 & 2010. The local media may have picked up the story about Appling, Payne, and the accusations (I remember reading something when we were going to play them in the final four), but the national media largely ignored the story. Four years later all we saw were fluff pieces about Payne.

The media gives people what they want to hear. It's all about timing.

 

[Captbluefin]

Very good point. Danny Hurley has another job to think about soon.. MSU

 

[intlzncster]

People were chanting in support of JoePa after like 3 months. Our collective consciousness does some hardcore mental gymnastics the look the other way when our heroes are terrible or do terrible things.

That extends right up to politics. What people desire most of all is validation of their own viewpoints. And they'll perform whatever mental gymnastics required for that to be the case.

 

[intlzncster]

Now that he is considered fair game they are like vultures circling the carcass. Maybe they should look in the mirror and think consider if they regret the way they acted as well

They don't and they won't. Maybe lip service at best. As champs says, they are chasing clicks, not being the 4th estate.

 

[whaler11]

They don't and they won't. Maybe lip service at best. As champs says, they are chasing clicks, not being the 4th estate.

That’s not true of everyone though.

Liz Clarke from the Washington post cried on the Kornheiser podcast talking about her coverage of the sport in the past.

 

[intlzncster]

That’s not true of everyone though.

Liz Clarke from the Washington post cried on the Kornheiser podcast talking about her coverage of the sport in the past.

Fair, but we're talking the vast minority no? I mean, we as fans often do the same thing.

 

[David 76]

People got to get off trying to blame the press for everything. They can be lazy, but we we still would not know about this without the press.

 

[Jaker]

With the whole "me too" thing going on, this won't be the last school put under the fire.

 

[freescooter]

Let’s see. 2 players raped a woman. Numerous other incidents of various types over a decade. The AD and coach covered it up. And the problem is reporters ask tough questions. Got it.