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Yup, another dumb move, another example of not getting it, not understanding how the landscape has changed. This is not a time to be cute.
Maryland Post Game Izzo Presser
- Thread starter whaler11
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Yup, another dumb move, another example of not getting it, not understanding how the landscape has changed. This is not a time to be cute.
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And the new Prez/AD will have no loyalty to their coaches either. If the new regime is told to clean house, that's what they will do.
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Cooperated in investigations conducted by an AD who has since been fired for hiding assaults. Tom Izzo is an idiot.
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"So you're telling us today the MSU basketball program is under investigation? By whom? For what?"
You shouldn't get paid at all
intlzncster
i fart in your general direction
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True, but if the Board doesn't want Izzo removed, he won't be. They'll go a lot further for a HOF coach, than they would for a President/AD. The latter are easily replaceable.
intlzncster
i fart in your general direction
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What doe that mean? I'm curious as to what Izzo knew and what information he was privy to. Did he see Payne's tape? Has any of this been determined?
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No I mean it's stupid to hide behind "investigations have shown I didn't do anything wrong!" when the AD has since been fired for hiding wrongdoing.
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They're all going down (Prez, AD, any coach associated with these cover-ups, over-paid puppet admins, etc.) - it's just a matter of time. They should all be in jail. What the hell is wrong with people?! Hypocrisy and the almighty dollar over human decency abound everywhere. It's disgusting.
On Izzo, specifically - what a coward. A guy that is one of the most prepared coach in the last 50 years can't remember why a former star player turned coach left the program. BS!!
On Izzo, specifically - what a coward. A guy that is one of the most prepared coach in the last 50 years can't remember why a former star player turned coach left the program. BS!!
The gold standard has been Roy being asked about the UNC job after Kansas lost in the title game. But that’s humorous where this is tragic.
intlzncster
i fart in your general direction
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Ok, I understand, but that could imply that the AD hid information from Izzo, no? And Izzo participated to the extent the AD allowed him to. Again, I have no information. Nor any desire to side with or support Izzo whatsoever.
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It could point to a ton of things, all of which taint prior investigations, making "i've been investigated already!" a dumb thing to say.
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There is another aspect to the story that people aren't talking about and that is the role the media has played during all of this. If Izzo is guilty of covering up some egregious behavior, then he's guilty. If that means this is too much of a circus right now and you can't have him coaching the team, fine. I think that makes sense. Some things come before basketball.
But why is it somehow noble to grill a coach with questions you know he can't answer in a post game press conference? Do people get warm feelings when this kind of thing essentially becomes a back and forth at recess? Because these resignations are the result of public pressure and not justice. The scene at that press conference is taking at delicate legal process and moving it to the cafeteria so that some reporter has the chance to be a hero, despite the fact that the very negligence of the media contributed to the Universities ability to cover this up in the first place. Why? Because it wasn't as convenient then.
Michigan State is clearly guilty and Tom Izzo might be. The common denominator is always the media being obnoxious, chasing page clicks, and establishing narratives that predate facts. That is the cause and whatever happened at Michigan State is the symptom. Until the American public starts to realize what is going on here, injustice is just going to be perpetually re-distributed.
But why is it somehow noble to grill a coach with questions you know he can't answer in a post game press conference? Do people get warm feelings when this kind of thing essentially becomes a back and forth at recess? Because these resignations are the result of public pressure and not justice. The scene at that press conference is taking at delicate legal process and moving it to the cafeteria so that some reporter has the chance to be a hero, despite the fact that the very negligence of the media contributed to the Universities ability to cover this up in the first place. Why? Because it wasn't as convenient then.
Michigan State is clearly guilty and Tom Izzo might be. The common denominator is always the media being obnoxious, chasing page clicks, and establishing narratives that predate facts. That is the cause and whatever happened at Michigan State is the symptom. Until the American public starts to realize what is going on here, injustice is just going to be perpetually re-distributed.
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I just don't think it's plausible he didn't know about Payne copping on tape to Appling forcing the girl, the girl said they both forced her. How the DA didn't bring charges with that tape is really unfathomable.....it wasn't he said / she said.....both parties said it was rape essentially.
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He even gives the reporter the "death stare" as if he is going to wreck her career. He did seem impressed at how much detail she knew.
These coaches are real sociopaths.
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The thing that gets me more than any of it is how this wasn't caught by someone. Campus PD records are public information.Like how SOMETHING wasn't flagged earlier and pursued more - aby anyone - be in the administration itself, the school, the media - it's astonishing. This wasn't a quiet thing. This was rampant.
And to boot - what a terrible year for college basketball and particularly old Big East teams. Good in a way, because so much cleaning up needs to be done and that's what's really important. But this will demolish Michigan State as a program. UConn's in free fall. Louisville is toast for the forseeable future. Syracuse seems like a mired mess. Georgetown is a shattered mess. Pitt is entirely uncompetitive and BC is an active disaster. Providence has underperformed and lost to freaking UMass. Then the FBI probe I don't think has even scratched the surface. Just sad, that's all.
And to boot - what a terrible year for college basketball and particularly old Big East teams. Good in a way, because so much cleaning up needs to be done and that's what's really important. But this will demolish Michigan State as a program. UConn's in free fall. Louisville is toast for the forseeable future. Syracuse seems like a mired mess. Georgetown is a shattered mess. Pitt is entirely uncompetitive and BC is an active disaster. Providence has underperformed and lost to freaking UMass. Then the FBI probe I don't think has even scratched the surface. Just sad, that's all.
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People were chanting in support of JoePa after like 3 months. Our collective consciousness does some hardcore mental gymnastics the look the other way when our heroes are terrible or do terrible things.
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I think you underestimate how important the press is to justice and democracy. If anything the press has been too weak for too long and the time for them to be embolden is long overdue. The "legal process" left to its own devices participated in covering this up and that process doesn't deserve to be put on any type of pedestal when comparing that process to the process of investigative journalism.
The legal process without the watchful eye of a free press quite often becomes a cesspool.
and the whole me too movement began with Harvey Weinsteen resigning because of a story in the New York Times.
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David 76
Forty years a fan
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The common denominator is always the media being obnoxious, chasing page clicks, and establishing narratives that predate facts. That is the cause and whatever happened at Michigan State is the symptom. Until the American public starts to realize what is going on here, injustice is just going to be perpetually re-distributed.[/QUOTE]
Holy crap. Yep, that is the real problem
Holy crap. Yep, that is the real problem
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Since the AD was his college roommate, and Izzo was the best man at his wedding, I'd doubt that the AD hid anything from him.
Penfield
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What really bothers me is that it has been years that these stories and rumors have been out there and the college basketball media largely ignored the story because Tom Izzo was one of their favorites. Now that he is considered fair game they are like vultures circling the carcass. Maybe they should look in the mirror and think consider if they regret the way they acted as well
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Its amazing to me how many MSU fans are willfully ignorant to an insane degree on this. They say since no one was charged with rape, they didn't rape anyone. Not understanding that the fact Walton was charged with littering for punching a woman in the face for not respecting him sending her to the hospital with a concussion, and Payne's own words on tape show he shouldn't have been playing basketball.
I literally had a guy reply to me with a link to the women suing UConn for not doing enough in response to their assaults, as though since UConn had a rape problem, I can't criticize a different college's athletic department and staff for covering up rape by their athletes... I didn't think MSU fans were West Virginia dumb, but here we are
I literally had a guy reply to me with a link to the women suing UConn for not doing enough in response to their assaults, as though since UConn had a rape problem, I can't criticize a different college's athletic department and staff for covering up rape by their athletes... I didn't think MSU fans were West Virginia dumb, but here we are
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Because the names were redacted. ESPN had to go to the Michigan Supreme Court to FORCE MSU to give them copies of the records with names.
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Huh? These are people doing a job, its somewhat true that they respond, write, investigate and report what the public wants - because that's their job to sell newspapers/attract eyeballs. Its not like reporters received fat contracts b/c they glossed over problems or didn't do their job thoroughly enough - whereas lots of MState administrators and coaches were. AND THEIR JOB IS TO LOOK AFTER THESE STUDENTS/KIDS! Lots of people had a role in this long debacle, but to simultaneously blame reporters for not investigating it thoroughly enough and then digging in too deep once it breaks is hypocritical. Why do reporters need to be held accountable? They were not in charge and missing a story is far different than covering one up. Multiple people at MState favored the accused over victims, the media covers these things mostly for fans of the team - so its hardly surprising that fans reward the good stories. Does the UConn board jump all over Jeff Jacobs?! We don't want to hear it. We know our athlete 'heroes' might not be role models or even good people, we primarily care about their performance on the court - after that just stay out of the news would be 90% of fans perspective.
So we never cared/read/clicked before either. For example I never read the stories that started coming out 1-year+ ago about USA gymnastics cuz I thought, duh - just look at those girls every Olympics - the sport obviously is insular and obsessive and you can read it on almost every gymnast's face. MState football & basketball is in trouble b/c of gymnastics unveiled a systemic problem, but bigger fan bases of those sports were equally complicit in looking the other way and wanting to believe their program was clean.
Penfield
a.k.a PencilForest
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Sorry. I didn't mean to make it sound like I think the journalists were more to blame than the coaches or administrators. I don't think that is the case at all.
As a journalist one of your jobs is to hold people in power accountable, and in general they gave Izzo a pass in 2009 & 2010. The local media may have picked up the story about Appling, Payne, and the accusations (I remember reading something when we were going to play them in the final four), but the national media largely ignored the story. Four years later all we saw were fluff pieces about Payne.
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Spartan Life Student Handbook - Article 4: Non-Academic Hearing Board Structures
This is the link to Michigan State Student Life’s Article 4, “Non-Academic Hearing Board Structures.” These articles govern the process for selecting a hearing board that would render a verdict on student misconduct (non-academic) and resulting punishments.
There are four classifications for hearing boards, dependent upon the nature of the complaint. All hearing boards adjudicate “personal misconduct.”
The hearing boards may be comprised of 1) undergraduate and graduate students only; or, 2) undergraduate students, graduate students, staff, and faculty. The nature of the person or groups of persons responding to the complaint partly determines the composition of students, faculty, and staff on the hearing board.
One key question is if the alleged sexual assault attributed to Payne and Appling took place in 1) campus housing (governed by the MSU Residence Halls Association); 2) Greek housing (governed by...unclear from linked document); or 3) an off-campus location.
I worked in Student Affairs at a B1G private university for three years. My university held a mandatory education session on sexual assault during its six-day orientation for first-year students. The training session used role play (performance) and lecture to help the students define consent under state law and gauge the level of sexually suggestive interaction at which a large group (maybe 600 attending) would indicate that consent to sex had been violated.
The alleged sexual assault took place after the female complainant completed her new student orientation. It is not clear whether Appling and Payne, who were freshman at the time of the alleged crime, completed their orientations.
That’s presuming that MSU offered sexual assault awareness and prevention education during their 2010 first-year orientation, which I don’t know.
Bottom line: The police needed to report the assault to...judicial affairs...student conduct office...really unclear which department and which administrator from this document. But once reported, all three parties to the complaint needed to immediately be advised of their rights to a hearing within the University’s judicial system.
No word yet on whether the kids actually read their Student Rights and Responsibilities, which might have influenced the immediate fallout after the alleged crime.
This is the link to Michigan State Student Life’s Article 4, “Non-Academic Hearing Board Structures.” These articles govern the process for selecting a hearing board that would render a verdict on student misconduct (non-academic) and resulting punishments.
There are four classifications for hearing boards, dependent upon the nature of the complaint. All hearing boards adjudicate “personal misconduct.”
The hearing boards may be comprised of 1) undergraduate and graduate students only; or, 2) undergraduate students, graduate students, staff, and faculty. The nature of the person or groups of persons responding to the complaint partly determines the composition of students, faculty, and staff on the hearing board.
One key question is if the alleged sexual assault attributed to Payne and Appling took place in 1) campus housing (governed by the MSU Residence Halls Association); 2) Greek housing (governed by...unclear from linked document); or 3) an off-campus location.
I worked in Student Affairs at a B1G private university for three years. My university held a mandatory education session on sexual assault during its six-day orientation for first-year students. The training session used role play (performance) and lecture to help the students define consent under state law and gauge the level of sexually suggestive interaction at which a large group (maybe 600 attending) would indicate that consent to sex had been violated.
The alleged sexual assault took place after the female complainant completed her new student orientation. It is not clear whether Appling and Payne, who were freshman at the time of the alleged crime, completed their orientations.
That’s presuming that MSU offered sexual assault awareness and prevention education during their 2010 first-year orientation, which I don’t know.
Bottom line: The police needed to report the assault to...judicial affairs...student conduct office...really unclear which department and which administrator from this document. But once reported, all three parties to the complaint needed to immediately be advised of their rights to a hearing within the University’s judicial system.
No word yet on whether the kids actually read their Student Rights and Responsibilities, which might have influenced the immediate fallout after the alleged crime.
one has to have a heart to regret ones actions, something the media is sincerely lacking.
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But it's public information. You can't hide it. I'm sure they tried to once ESPN showed up and rightfully weren't allowed to by the court.
But before that. Anyone who wants a lot of this info can get it. And even if you can't get all of it, SOMETHING has to fall through the cracks that makes people raise an eyebrow.
The media gives people what they want to hear. It's all about timing.
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Very good point. Danny Hurley has another job to think about soon.. MSU
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