Mark Blaudschun, Boston Globe: If L'ville leaves, basketball schools out the door

[Carl Spackler]

BS.

A big east basketball league minus Syracuse/Boeheim, UConn/Calhoun, Louisville/Pitino, West Virginia.......

not much firepower left. Those schools aren't going to separate on their own, ever. There's too much money to be lost.

I'm not an advocate of the hybrid conference, not by any means, never was.

But in the current landscape, given the position the schools find themselves in, the next several years could be quite lucrative to maintain the thing for a while.

It's just sad to me that the sanity is gone. There really is no other reason aside from greed, and hubris, that there isn't a powerhouse athletic conference of both football and basketball right now based in the north east U.S.A. From State college in PA to Boston Harbor, to he great lakes and mason - dixon and all aroudn new york city.

Oh well.

I can't wait to see the huskies play on the blue field!!!

For real - it's kind of exciting. I think it would be damn cool to have Boise and Air Force at Rnetschler regularly. Maybe someof those jets based at Bradley could fly around the place.

 

[Stinger92860]

I disagree, especially if they add Xavier, Butler, and a third school, like Dayton or George Mason, or something.

Villanova
Georgetown
Xavier
Butler
St. John's
Marquette
Providence
Seton Hall
DePaul
Random Team X

Is a damn good league, much deeper than the A-10 ever was.

I have to respectfully disagree...take out the 3 you added...Xavier, Butler and Random Team X what do you have? You are left with Nova and GT for the most part. Over time (2-3 years) their ability to recruit at the level they do now will erode and they will be A10 level schools. That's not to say they will be doormats but you won'e see 2 teams from this league in the final 4.

 

[coachcap]

Just an fyi. Joe D. onWTIC Sportstalk mentioned that the Globe will begin charging for content of their online edition beginning tomorrow. Things must really be hurting with their bottom line.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Just an fyi. Joe D. onWTIC Sportstalk mentioned that the Globe will begin charging for content of their online edition beginning tomorrow. Things must really be hurting with their bottom line.

The "giving it away for free" business model isn't working out for them? Shocking.

 

[toppencil]

BB schools aren't leaving, football schools are. At this point the BB schools only have to wait it out if they want a BB league only. It would be a killer league especially if they add Butler, Xavier and perhaps VCU. Over the past 6 seasons, the schools that don't play football in the Big East have accounted for 23 NCAA bids, half the league total.

In 1985, three Catholic Big East schools made it to the final four, Georgetown, Villanova and St. Johns . That had never been done before or since. It helped put the Big East on the map. Schools like UConn, Miami and Pitt leveraged their position in the Big East to improve their basketball programs. It was never the other way around.

The Big East is a basketball league first, always was, always will be> It's time for the football experiment to die. Louisville or West Virginia will be gone soon and then there will be 4. What happens at that point?

Let's move on. The fact is the north east has not supported big time college football since Yale, Army, and Harvard were contenders. Georgetown used to play Divison 1A, they even played in the Orange Bowl one year, but they smartened up years ago. Most of the catholic schools played big time football years ago, they either dropped it or reduced its scope because of the ridiculous cost.

I'm sorry UConn got duped into going to division 1A, blame Miami, Boston College, Pitt and Syracuse. Notre Dame won't sign on so this thing looks hopeless. With or without the football schools, the Big East will be a huge player in the basketball world for the foreseable future. I hope UConn sticks around.

 

[The Funster]

Well, I think we know what Marinatto's nick is on this board.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I have to respectfully disagree...take out the 3 you added...Xavier, Butler and Random Team X what do you have? You are left with Nova and GT for the most part. Over time (2-3 years) their ability to recruit at the level they do now will erode and they will be A10 level schools. That's not to say they will be doormats but you won'e see 2 teams from this league in the final 4.

The idea that the hoops only schools will slip to A10 level is wishful thinking. If anything, the basketball programs at the football schools nationwide have been declining the last 5 years while several hoops only programs have made tremendous progress. When was the last time the SEC or Pac 12 were good as a conference?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Not mad, amused at your hypocrisy, and it was your CUSA post. How is it again that UConn is powerful enough to save the Big East but yet we couldn't get in CUSA? And if UConn is strong enough to save the big east, but too weak for the C-USA, then what does that say about YOUR opinion of the Big East?

You are right. #BegHarder has is a smashing success.

 

[tzznandrew]

I have to respectfully disagree...take out the 3 you added...Xavier, Butler and Random Team X what do you have? You are left with Nova and GT for the most part. Over time (2-3 years) their ability to recruit at the level they do now will erode and they will be A10 level schools. That's not to say they will be doormats but you won'e see 2 teams from this league in the final 4.

While I concede that I selected 2 schools that made my list look best, I would expect that the hoops schools would be foolish to not add those 2 in particular. I would say St. Joes, but I imagine Nova would reject that. George Mason would be a nice addition, but they don't fit the academic profile and are in Georgetown's footprint. I'm not sure who you ask to get to 10.

But, I think, you are underselling some of these teams. Certainly a BE without Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, WVU is weaker. But Villanova and Georgetown have each been top programs for the last decade, and have each been to Final Fours more recently than Syracuse or Louisville. You add Butler, and they've done it twice. Marquette last went to the Final Four the exact same time as the last trip by Syracuse. These aren't programs that are on life support. They may entice recruits to come in part by point out that their competition will be top notch in Syracuse, UConn, etc. But UConn does the exact same thing. When we recruit a guard, part of the deal has to be how they will match up with Villanova (which always has a bevy of good guards).

I'll agree that some schools, namely PC, Seton Hall, and DePaul, haven't been good in a while. 2004 was the last good season for DePaul or PC. Seton Hall had some decent ones around then as well. But the three have been bubble teams at best. But it's not like the football schools don't have USF. And are about to have SMU and UCF (I suspect Houston can somewhat compete).

The BE football top programs are better than the top non-football programs. But not by a ton.

And a top of Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Xavier, Butler, Marquette is a better top than UCLA, Arizona (these two are better, but there's no depth), Washington, California, USC, Wazzou.

It's also better than: Kansas, Texas, KState, Missouri, Baylor, Oklahoma State. That could change if you add Louisville, Cincy, and West Virginia.

It's better than: Kentucky, Florida, Vanderbilt, Alabama....ummm, who else is in this league for basketball? This league has been terrible.

It's also on par with: Ohio State, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

And, it was better than the ACC.

 

[The Funster]

Butler and Xavier aren't a given, SJU has a fine recruiting class but nothing else yet and Marquette is solid. Losing UConn, Cuse, Pitt, Ville and WVU is subtracting a ton of star power. The BE tourney at MSG would never, ever be the same.

 

[tzznandrew]

Butler and Xavier aren't a given, SJU has a fine recruiting class but nothing else yet and Marquette is solid. Losing UConn, Cuse, Pitt, Ville and WVU is subtracting a ton of star power. The BE tourney at MSG would never, ever be the same.

Agreed. It probably can't be in MSG anymore.

The conference drops from the best conference (or at worst, second best), down a couple of steps. The top schools (Villanova and Georgetown) would be below every other leagues #1-2 (UCLA-Arizona; MSU-OSU; Kansas-Texas; Kentucky-Florida), but the depth would be very good. Probably consistently the 3rd or 4th best league.

 

[The Funster]

Here's the coaches poll for the upcoming men's hoops season. I understand the BB only school's frustration with the situation but voluntarily breaking away would be insane for them.

If the poaching hadn't happened and the FB schools wanted to break away yeah, for FB it's a light weight conference, but from a hoops perspective it stands up to anyone despite the exclusion of Nova, Gtown and Marquette.

2011-12 Preseason Coaches' Poll
Team Pts.
1. Connecticut (7) 209
Syracuse (5) 209
3. Louisville (3) 201
4. Pittsburgh (1) 188
5. Cincinnati 169
6. Marquette 155
7. West Virginia 132
8. Villanova 127
9. Notre Dame 114
10. Georgetown 104
11. Rutgers 75
12. St. John's 71
13. Seton Hall 56
14. USF 43
15. Providence 40
16. DePaul 27
First-place votes in parentheses

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Speaking of the Globe and basketball preseason rankings, take a look at the Globe's front page sports headlines. Once again, an article on UConn and SU topping the BE poll. That's the only college sports article in sight.

 

[huskyjawz]

Agreed. It probably can't be in MSG anymore.

The conference drops from the best conference (or at worst, second best), down a couple of steps. The top schools (Villanova and Georgetown) would be below every other leagues #1-2 (UCLA-Arizona; MSU-OSU; Kansas-Texas; Kentucky-Florida), but the depth would be very good. Probably consistently the 3rd or 4th best league.

why wouldn't it be at MSG anymore?

 

[freescooter]

Somebody explain to me why you guys think St Johns belongs in the top half of thkis new conference? With the exception of a late run last year which also fizzled come tourney time (they got a huge break when the refs decided they couldn't be late for their dinner reservations) they haven't been a significant player in a long time. Since the expanded Big East started play, they are much closer to Providence and Depaul than they are to UCONN and Syracuse. If that is your number 3 team, your league is in for a world of hurt.

 

[tzznandrew]

why wouldn't it be at MSG anymore?

I don't think they'd draw.

There'd also be competition from the ACC, especially one that had UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, on top of Duke, UNC, etc.

 

[tzznandrew]

Somebody explain to me why you guys think St Johns belongs in the top half of thkis new conference? With the exception of a late run last year which also fizzled come tourney time (they got a huge break when the refs decided they couldn't be late for their dinner reservations) they haven't been a significant player in a long time. Since the expanded Big East started play, they are much closer to Providence and Depaul than they are to UCONN and Syracuse. If that is your number 3 team, your league is in for a world of hurt.

First, I'd imagine that they'd pick up Xavier and Butler, along with another. Xavier and Butler would both be ahead of St. John's. I'd also put Marquette ahead of St. John's. So that makes St. John's number 6.

I also think that Lavin is going to continue to recruit well, and that they are on the rise. They've had some coaches, but it wasn't all that long ago when St. John's was really good.

 

[huskyjawz]

I don't think they'd draw.

There'd also be competition from the ACC, especially one that had UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, on top of Duke, UNC, etc.

they'll draw enough.

you ever go to a st john's game or coach v cancer or jimmy v classic?

the place is half full at best. they'll do much better then that.

what competition from acc? a commitment to play there every eight years, compared to every yr from big east?

i don't think so.

 

[tzznandrew]

they'll draw enough.

you ever go to a st john's game or coach v cancer or jimmy v classic?

the place is half full at best. they'll do much better then that.

what competition from acc? a commitment to play there every eight years, compared to every yr from big east?

i don't think so.

Well, in the world of hypotheticals here (and it is all hypothetical), the ACC would have Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, UConn, Maryland, Duke, UNC, etc. They all draw very well, and would draw better than the New BE. So I am imagining the ACC, when the contract was open for negotiation in this imaginary world, would go every year.

 

[huskyjawz]

Obviously they could outbid big east, but I can't see them wanting it there every year. Their base is north carolina.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Here's the coaches poll for the upcoming men's hoops season. I understand the BB only school's frustration with the situation but voluntarily breaking away would be insane for them.

If the poaching hadn't happened and the FB schools wanted to break away yeah, for FB it's a light weight conference, but from a hoops perspective it stands up to anyone despite the exclusion of Nova, Gtown and Marquette.

2011-12 Preseason Coaches' Poll
Team Pts.
1. Connecticut (7) 209
Syracuse (5) 209
3. Louisville (3) 201
4. Pittsburgh (1) 188
5. Cincinnati 169
6. Marquette 155
7. West Virginia 132
8. Villanova 127
9. Notre Dame 114
10. Georgetown 104
11. Rutgers 75
12. St. John's 71
13. Seton Hall 56
14. USF 43
15. Providence 40
16. DePaul 27
First-place votes in parentheses

St. Johns will be much better than 12th.

 

[businesslawyer]

Well, in the world of hypotheticals here (and it is all hypothetical), the ACC would have Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, UConn, Maryland, Duke, UNC, etc. They all draw very well, and would draw better than the New BE. So I am imagining the ACC, when the contract was open for negotiation in this imaginary world, would go every year.

There is zero per cent chance a 16 team ACC would want to play in the Garden every year. Do you think Duke and UNC would want to be adding UConn if that meant that half the tourneys wouldn't be in North Carolina?

 

[ctchamps]

St. Johns will be much better than 12th.

Hard to say. They have only 8 scholarship players and are wing heavy. Also they are a young team.

 

[The Funster]

SJU doesn't have a player over 6'8", they are young and will be playing with a lot of expectations. Plus as Fleudsplicon said they'll have 4-5 walkons to go with only 8 scholarship players. 12th would be a good season for them.