Mark Blaudschun, Boston Globe: If L'ville leaves, basketball schools out the door | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Mark Blaudschun, Boston Globe: If L'ville leaves, basketball schools out the door

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Stinger92860 said:
I have to respectfully disagree...take out the 3 you added...Xavier, Butler and Random Team X what do you have? You are left with Nova and GT for the most part. Over time (2-3 years) their ability to recruit at the level they do now will erode and they will be A10 level schools. That's not to say they will be doormats but you won'e see 2 teams from this league in the final 4.
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The idea that the hoops only schools will slip to A10 level is wishful thinking. If anything, the basketball programs at the football schools nationwide have been declining the last 5 years while several hoops only programs have made tremendous progress. When was the last time the SEC or Pac 12 were good as a conference?
 
WingU-Conn said:
Not mad, amused at your hypocrisy, and it was your CUSA post. How is it again that UConn is powerful enough to save the Big East but yet we couldn't get in CUSA? And if UConn is strong enough to save the big east, but too weak for the C-USA, then what does that say about YOUR opinion of the Big East?
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You are right. #BegHarder has is a smashing success.
 
Stinger92860 said:
I have to respectfully disagree...take out the 3 you added...Xavier, Butler and Random Team X what do you have? You are left with Nova and GT for the most part. Over time (2-3 years) their ability to recruit at the level they do now will erode and they will be A10 level schools. That's not to say they will be doormats but you won'e see 2 teams from this league in the final 4.
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While I concede that I selected 2 schools that made my list look best, I would expect that the hoops schools would be foolish to not add those 2 in particular. I would say St. Joes, but I imagine Nova would reject that. George Mason would be a nice addition, but they don't fit the academic profile and are in Georgetown's footprint. I'm not sure who you ask to get to 10.

But, I think, you are underselling some of these teams. Certainly a BE without Syracuse, Louisville, UConn, WVU is weaker. But Villanova and Georgetown have each been top programs for the last decade, and have each been to Final Fours more recently than Syracuse or Louisville. You add Butler, and they've done it twice. Marquette last went to the Final Four the exact same time as the last trip by Syracuse. These aren't programs that are on life support. They may entice recruits to come in part by point out that their competition will be top notch in Syracuse, UConn, etc. But UConn does the exact same thing. When we recruit a guard, part of the deal has to be how they will match up with Villanova (which always has a bevy of good guards).

I'll agree that some schools, namely PC, Seton Hall, and DePaul, haven't been good in a while. 2004 was the last good season for DePaul or PC. Seton Hall had some decent ones around then as well. But the three have been bubble teams at best. But it's not like the football schools don't have USF. And are about to have SMU and UCF (I suspect Houston can somewhat compete).

The BE football top programs are better than the top non-football programs. But not by a ton.

And a top of Georgetown, Villanova, St. John's, Xavier, Butler, Marquette is a better top than UCLA, Arizona (these two are better, but there's no depth), Washington, California, USC, Wazzou.

It's also better than: Kansas, Texas, KState, Missouri, Baylor, Oklahoma State. That could change if you add Louisville, Cincy, and West Virginia.

It's better than: Kentucky, Florida, Vanderbilt, Alabama....ummm, who else is in this league for basketball? This league has been terrible.

It's also on par with: Ohio State, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Wisconsin

And, it was better than the ACC.
 
Butler and Xavier aren't a given, SJU has a fine recruiting class but nothing else yet and Marquette is solid. Losing UConn, Cuse, Pitt, Ville and WVU is subtracting a ton of star power. The BE tourney at MSG would never, ever be the same.
 
The Funster said:
Butler and Xavier aren't a given, SJU has a fine recruiting class but nothing else yet and Marquette is solid. Losing UConn, Cuse, Pitt, Ville and WVU is subtracting a ton of star power. The BE tourney at MSG would never, ever be the same.
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Agreed. It probably can't be in MSG anymore.

The conference drops from the best conference (or at worst, second best), down a couple of steps. The top schools (Villanova and Georgetown) would be below every other leagues #1-2 (UCLA-Arizona; MSU-OSU; Kansas-Texas; Kentucky-Florida), but the depth would be very good. Probably consistently the 3rd or 4th best league.
 
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Here's the coaches poll for the upcoming men's hoops season. I understand the BB only school's frustration with the situation but voluntarily breaking away would be insane for them.

If the poaching hadn't happened and the FB schools wanted to break away yeah, for FB it's a light weight conference, but from a hoops perspective it stands up to anyone despite the exclusion of Nova, Gtown and Marquette.

2011-12 Preseason Coaches' Poll
Team Pts.
1. Connecticut (7) 209
Syracuse (5) 209
3. Louisville (3) 201
4. Pittsburgh (1) 188
5. Cincinnati 169
6. Marquette 155
7. West Virginia 132
8. Villanova 127
9. Notre Dame 114
10. Georgetown 104
11. Rutgers 75
12. St. John's 71
13. Seton Hall 56
14. USF 43
15. Providence 40
16. DePaul 27
First-place votes in parentheses
 
Speaking of the Globe and basketball preseason rankings, take a look at the Globe's front page sports headlines. Once again, an article on UConn and SU topping the BE poll. That's the only college sports article in sight.
 
tzznandrew said:
Agreed. It probably can't be in MSG anymore.

The conference drops from the best conference (or at worst, second best), down a couple of steps. The top schools (Villanova and Georgetown) would be below every other leagues #1-2 (UCLA-Arizona; MSU-OSU; Kansas-Texas; Kentucky-Florida), but the depth would be very good. Probably consistently the 3rd or 4th best league.
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why wouldn't it be at MSG anymore?
 
Somebody explain to me why you guys think St Johns belongs in the top half of thkis new conference? With the exception of a late run last year which also fizzled come tourney time (they got a huge break when the refs decided they couldn't be late for their dinner reservations) they haven't been a significant player in a long time. Since the expanded Big East started play, they are much closer to Providence and Depaul than they are to UCONN and Syracuse. If that is your number 3 team, your league is in for a world of hurt.
 
huskyjawz said:
why wouldn't it be at MSG anymore?
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I don't think they'd draw.

There'd also be competition from the ACC, especially one that had UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, on top of Duke, UNC, etc.
 
freescooter said:
Somebody explain to me why you guys think St Johns belongs in the top half of thkis new conference? With the exception of a late run last year which also fizzled come tourney time (they got a huge break when the refs decided they couldn't be late for their dinner reservations) they haven't been a significant player in a long time. Since the expanded Big East started play, they are much closer to Providence and Depaul than they are to UCONN and Syracuse. If that is your number 3 team, your league is in for a world of hurt.
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First, I'd imagine that they'd pick up Xavier and Butler, along with another. Xavier and Butler would both be ahead of St. John's. I'd also put Marquette ahead of St. John's. So that makes St. John's number 6.

I also think that Lavin is going to continue to recruit well, and that they are on the rise. They've had some coaches, but it wasn't all that long ago when St. John's was really good.
 
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tzznandrew said:
I don't think they'd draw.

There'd also be competition from the ACC, especially one that had UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, on top of Duke, UNC, etc.
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they'll draw enough.

you ever go to a st john's game or coach v cancer or jimmy v classic?

the place is half full at best. they'll do much better then that.

what competition from acc? a commitment to play there every eight years, compared to every yr from big east?

i don't think so.
 
huskyjawz said:
they'll draw enough.

you ever go to a st john's game or coach v cancer or jimmy v classic?

the place is half full at best. they'll do much better then that.

what competition from acc? a commitment to play there every eight years, compared to every yr from big east?

i don't think so.
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Well, in the world of hypotheticals here (and it is all hypothetical), the ACC would have Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, UConn, Maryland, Duke, UNC, etc. They all draw very well, and would draw better than the New BE. So I am imagining the ACC, when the contract was open for negotiation in this imaginary world, would go every year.
 
Obviously they could outbid big east, but I can't see them wanting it there every year. Their base is north carolina.
 
The Funster said:
Here's the coaches poll for the upcoming men's hoops season. I understand the BB only school's frustration with the situation but voluntarily breaking away would be insane for them.

If the poaching hadn't happened and the FB schools wanted to break away yeah, for FB it's a light weight conference, but from a hoops perspective it stands up to anyone despite the exclusion of Nova, Gtown and Marquette.

2011-12 Preseason Coaches' Poll
Team Pts.
1. Connecticut (7) 209
Syracuse (5) 209
3. Louisville (3) 201
4. Pittsburgh (1) 188
5. Cincinnati 169
6. Marquette 155
7. West Virginia 132
8. Villanova 127
9. Notre Dame 114
10. Georgetown 104
11. Rutgers 75
12. St. John's 71
13. Seton Hall 56
14. USF 43
15. Providence 40
16. DePaul 27
First-place votes in parentheses
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St. Johns will be much better than 12th.
 
tzznandrew said:
Well, in the world of hypotheticals here (and it is all hypothetical), the ACC would have Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, Pitt, UConn, Maryland, Duke, UNC, etc. They all draw very well, and would draw better than the New BE. So I am imagining the ACC, when the contract was open for negotiation in this imaginary world, would go every year.
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There is zero per cent chance a 16 team ACC would want to play in the Garden every year. Do you think Duke and UNC would want to be adding UConn if that meant that half the tourneys wouldn't be in North Carolina?
 
HuskyHawk said:
St. Johns will be much better than 12th.
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Hard to say. They have only 8 scholarship players and are wing heavy. Also they are a young team.
 
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SJU doesn't have a player over 6'8", they are young and will be playing with a lot of expectations. Plus as Fleudsplicon said they'll have 4-5 walkons to go with only 8 scholarship players. 12th would be a good season for them.
 
MTHusky said:
I believe that if a new conference is formed by the BB only schools, they have to wait a few years(might be only one) to get an automatic bid to March Madness
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Automatic bid in basketball is irrelevant except for the tourney winner bid. If they have a good season, they're in anyway.
 
Danzz said:
Automatic bid in basketball is irrelevant except for the tourney winner bid. If they have a good season, they're in anyway.
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It is the tourney winner bid that they might have to wait for and it makes a difference because in the BB olines conference there is a chance that a team like PC gets hot and wins it, something that probably wouldn't happen in the Pitt and syracuse BE
 
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