Making a Murderer on Netflix

[mauconnfan]

http://www.businessinsider.com/steven-avery-juror-believes-police-framed-2016-1

 

[whaler11]

I think he was just a publicity whore. They showed him talking to Dasseys mother on camera during Dasseys trial and he was was acting like he was some sort of trial expert (his qualification being that he was the dismissed juror on the Avery trial and that somehow made him an expert to speak on the judicial system).

there is something in the water up there. Backwards hillbillies.

Yeah that's my feeling too just likes the attention.

I thought they should have elected for the mistrial when it happened.

 

[J187Money]

Yeah that's my feeling too just likes the attention.

I thought they should have elected for the mistrial when it happened.

Yeah - that's the odd thing. But from what his lawyers say they had a hard enough time seating a jury that they "thought" might be fair - so probably thought it would get worse if they went for the mistrial.

 

[boog204]

Sorry to bring this back, but I just finished this and I have to admit, I feel a little sick to my stomach. I'm 50/50 on Avery being guilty; I think it's very plausible that they framed him, yet there is no direct link either way. But I am 100% sure that Brandon had no role whatsoever. His case is far more tragic considering how he was completely manipulated. A severely learning disabled kid who was telling this investigators stories to please them. I am a high school teacher and I have students just like him. Who will tell you anything or "lie on their homework" just to get by. It is absolutely disgusting. In a lot of ways this is another example where telling the difference between the sane/insane and guilty/innocent is totally ambiguous. Curious if the huge media exposure has any effect on finding out the truth in these cases.

 

[mauconnfan]

boog - Bingo

Same feelings

 

[Vuce]

I read that the film makers still keeping in touch with Avery and are continuing to work on the case and will release more. Having read some stuff on it I think Avery probably did it but who knows for sure with the BS those cops pulled along with the prosecutor. That kid is rotting in jail and he likely didn't do anything. And his first scumbag attorney set him up!

 

[RayRay19]

I am pissed. I just finished the series. Steven just filed for an appeal 2 days ago for something about a bias in the Jurors. Man this is so frustrating. Not one ounce of evidence to suggest he did it. If you read reddit page about this it only proves his innocence even more.

 

[methodology]

Finished this a while ago but have been reading up a bunch on reddit and the Web. I don't feel Avery committed this crime and believe it was Tadych and the other Dassy.

Such an infuriating case, especially for Brendan. Kid had absolutely no clue what was going on and just going along with the detectives just so he could "go home" in his mind.

Lenk and the guy who called in the plate along with the police chief who said on TV it would be easier to kill avery then set him up all are hiding something. Imo they had it out from the beginning and Avery's huge lawsuit he was about to receive is way too much a coincidence to ignore the motive that department had to frame Avery.

Way too many question marks. They definitely deserve new trials.

 

[Dove]

2 episodes in and this is no better than 48 Hours. I have not read this thread except for first few posts.

Was told it will get better.

 

[methodology]

Yes first 2 episodes are slow. They are just setting everything up so you can see how it all builds and shows manitowoc has it out for avery

 

[Jerry1714]

A disgusting example of our criminal justice system. Also , this guy may in fact have done the 2nd murder, I could be convinced either way, but a jury should never have found him guilty considering the evidence presented at trial.

Do you actually think you saw all the evidence presented to the jury? Because you did not.

Some of the evidence published, that was not presented in the documentary, makes it pretty hard to argue his innocence.

 

[August_West]

Do you actually think you saw all the evidence presented to the jury? Because you did not. Some of the evidence published, that was not presented in the documentary, makes it pretty hard to argue his innocence.

I was enough to make it plausible that police planted evidence, I saw enough to to see that Dasseys confession was absolutely coerced,

 

[The Viking]

Do you actually think you saw all the evidence presented to the jury? Because you did not.

Some of the evidence published, that was not presented in the documentary, makes it pretty hard to argue his innocence.

To be clear, the issue isn't whether or not he did it. It's whether or not the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it.

For what its worth, the majority of the jurors wanted not guilty after closing arguments. I think that's pretty damn telling considering they DID see all the evidence. Relatives of the sherrifs dept are on the jury? I mean come the fook on. All the sketchy-ness of the police dept, the fact they had a MASSIVE motive to pin this on Avery.

Again, I wouldn't be shocked if the truth was that he did it even though he was on the precipice of collecting tens of millions of dollars, but beyond a reasonable doubt seems pretty damn tough from what I saw and from what 7 of the 12 jurors saw after closing arguments.

 

[Jerry1714]

To be clear, the issue isn't whether or not he did it. It's whether or not the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it.

For what its worth, the majority of the jurors wanted not guilty after closing arguments. I think that's pretty damn telling considering they DID see all the evidence. Relatives of the sherrifs dept are on the jury? I mean come the fook on. All the sketchy-ness of the police dept, the fact they had a MASSIVE motive to pin this on Avery.

Again, I wouldn't be shocked if the truth was that he did it even though he was on the precipice of collecting tens of millions of dollars, but beyond a reasonable doubt seems pretty damn tough from what I saw and from what 7 of the 12 jurors saw after closing arguments.

I am an attorney so I am aware of the standard used. Not uncommon for jurors to initially vote one way and over deliberating change their stance.

I agree from what was shown, and that was the purpose of the filmmakers, it is hard to believe the prosecution met this standard, but the evidence released after the documentary, specifically Avery's sweat inside the car (which cannot be planted) makes it a little more reasonable that he was found guilty.

I do agree there was a myriad of issues with the investigation and the jury selection. Also, the confession of Dassey was very very troubling and his initial attorney should be disbarred for his representation and hiring of, and use of, the investigator.

 

[methodology]

Jerry everything I have read regarding the sweat was that it was only found on the hood latch to the car and on the key lanyard. I havent seen any articles or evidence saying sweat was found inside the vehicle. Also extremely odd that the keys found only have the RAV4 key and no other keys. Almost like it was a spare key that someone gave Lenk to plant in Avery's room.

No blood whatsoever in Avery's trailer, room, garage yet there was still blood found from deer or another animal in the garage. They jack hammered out the garage flooring and there was no blood found that would have seeped into the cracks. Bones found in 3 different areas on the property (gravel pit, burn pit, and the burn barrel belonging to Brendan's mom I believe). Theresa's ex boyfriend, Ryan, had scratch marks and cuts on himself yet was never questioned along with evidence that TH told her boss he was calling her constantly and getting on her nerves.

Tadych and Bobby Dassey really should have been looked into. There multiple people who say Bobby was still there after the time that Bobby says he left the property to go hunting and his comment of Tadych can give you the exact time was just rather strange.... Along with the Tadych quote after the guilty verdict.

Either way there were so many other potential suspects that police never did their due diligence investigating. A volunteer MC sheriff department person on the jury along with a relative. Insane that Judge Willis allowed that.

 

[Dove]

Steve Avery: Hello?

Mother Avery: "Hello."

Steve: "Yeah?"

Mother: "Well, how are you?"

Steve: "I do'know"

Mother: "Yeah."

Steve: "I'd like to be out of here."

Mother: "Yeah. I know."

Steve: "But...I do'know."

Mother: "I know."

Steven: "Yeah."

Mother: "It's hard."

Steven: "Yeah."

 

[Deepster]

Binged it Sunday and Monday, then tried to read up a bunch of the post-series stuff on the net.

I'm no lawyer, but I was a criminal justice major in college. I know they left a lot of pieces from the actual trial out of the documentary, but wow, I'm not sure how the jury didn't find reasonable doubt based on the arguments presented by the defense. I mean, the cop who called in the RAV4 license plate alone could have been enough to raise a question, no?

At the end of the day, I think he did it or was a part of it. But I think the police most certainly planted evidence and, without a doubt, coerced that poor idiot Brendan into a half-baked confession.

 

[sub legacy]

I don't think he did it. It's not impossible that he did, but it seems more likely than not that the prosecution, cops, and investigators played, manipulated, and cut corners through the justice system to bail the county out of a monumental (and plainly justified) lawsuit.

 

[Deepster]

I don't think he did it. It's not impossible that he did, but it seems more likely than not that the prosecution, cops, and investigators played, manipulated, and cut corners through the justice system to bail the county out of a monumental (and plainly justified) lawsuit.

So they found a body then uprooted all the evidence and moved it to the Avery property?

 

[NorwalkHusky]

 

[billythekid]

I just finished the series. To say I enjoyed it doesn't seem right as it was very disturbing. Makes you really feel that the system is rigged against the poor and stupid. I haven't done of research into what the filmmakers left out of the documentary that might have shed more light on why they came to a guilty verdict. The part that jumped out to me was the veritable lack of forensic evidence in the trailer. The prosecution put forth a case that Avery and Dassey tied Theresa up, raped her, stabbed her, slit her throat and shot her multiple times. How was there no blood found? Was the same guy who was stupid enough to park Theresa's car in his yard the same guy that was mentally equipped to rid his entire property of every last droplet of blood or gore from the murder? Like others, I'm not saying he wasn't involved, but it's hard to see how they passed the reasonable doubt threshold.

 

[Deepster]

I just finished the series. To say I enjoyed it doesn't seem right as it was very disturbing. Makes you really feel that the system is rigged against the poor and stupid. I haven't done of research into what the filmmakers left out of the documentary that might have shed more light on why they came to a guilty verdict. The part that jumped out to me was the veritable lack of forensic evidence in the trailer. The prosecution put forth a case that Avery and Dassey tied Theresa up, raped her, stabbed her, slit her throat and shot her multiple times. How was there no blood found? Was the same guy who was stupid enough to park Theresa's car in his yard the same guy that was mentally equipped to rid his entire property of every last droplet of blood or gore from the murder? Like others, I'm not saying he wasn't involved, but it's hard to see how they passed the reasonable doubt threshold.

One of the bugger pieces left out was the presence of Avery's sweat in her car. Apparently sweat can't be planted like blood potentially could so it was locked up that he had been in her car.

 

[methodology]

One of the bugger pieces left out was the presence of Avery's sweat in her car. Apparently sweat can't be planted like blood potentially could so it was locked up that he had been in her car.

Can you link an article about the sweat inside the car. I've only read/seen that his sweat was found on the key lanyard and on the hood latch to the car not inside.

 

[billythekid]

I just read this article from The New Yorker that takes a slightly different view on Making a Murderer. They make the point that the filmmakers deliberately left out evidence, such as sweat found on the hood latch, that might have painted a different story. Also touches on how these true crime stories don't take into account the effect they have on the families of the victims. Interesting read.

 

[ZooCougar]

Having finished it yesterday.

Zero doubt they planeted evidence in my mind.

Pretty sure Brendan wasn't involved much if at all.

50/50 that Steven killed her - reading all the fun stuff on Reddit...

Obviously what we saw wasn't enough to convict him but we know we didn't see everything.

Even as a conservative, when I hear about incidents like this there is simply no way I can support the death penalty. This kind of thing happens far more often than most people realize.