Luka Doncic Comparisons

[nelsonmuntz]

You lost me way before, but certainly when you put Sam Cassell and Luka in the same conversation.

Check out Cassell from 1999 to 2004. That was an era where defenders could basically punch players and get away with it, and he still put up big numbers. Put any of the guys on my list with the referee protection, faster tempo, and analytics driven offenses of today, and you can add several points to their shooting percentage and PPG. NBA teams are averaging 18 more points per game than they did 20 years ago.

You put Larry Bird from his prime on the court now, and he could easily average 35 ppg for a season if he wanted to. He would be unstoppable with his outside shooting in a modern offense.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Bird played defense - Luka plays centerfield D to avoid fouling. I always watch him on D and just laugh at his total lack of effort - He's an offensive machine for sure but that's half of the game. He doesn't come close to Larry Bird as far as overall game.

Bird won three championships. Luka may have played in his last conference finals. Bird would be more like Luka if he froze out McHale and then forced the Celtics to trade McHale because McHale was interfering with Bird's game.

Luka forced his team to trade a 20ppg 7+ foot player in that player's prime because Luka wanted more shots. That is where the argument of Luka as one of the all time greats ends.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Check out Cassell from 1999 to 2004. That was an era where defenders could basically punch players and get away with it, and he still put up big numbers. Put any of the guys on my list with the referee protection, faster tempo, and analytics driven offenses of today, and you can add several points to their shooting percentage and PPG. NBA teams are averaging 18 more points per game than they did 20 years ago.

You put Larry Bird from his prime on the court now, and he could easily average 35 ppg for a season if he wanted to. He would be unstoppable with his outside shooting in a modern offense.

Cassell’s career high in a season was 19.8 ppg. Luka is averaging 33.6 ppg this season. They aren’t comparable.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Anyone that knows anything about hoops should be marveling at the spectacular season the Joker is having. THAT is a high IQ basketball player.

Jamal Murray is maybe 70% of the player he was pre-injury, but between him and Porter Jr. back, and Gordon having a great year, the Joker may have the best team in the West. He just has to figure out a way to get past Malone's bad coaching and he could be playing for the NBA title.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Cassell’s career high in a season was 19.8 ppg. Luka is averaging 33.6 ppg this season. They aren’t comparable.

STRAW MAN ALERT.

I used Cassell as one of several examples of players that were more stat focused than win focused, and I pointed out that he was a pretty good player in his prime. I didn't say he was better than Luka. One place that Cassell will dominate Luka is number of NBA Titles. Cassell has 2. Luka will never win one unless it is some end of career, role player title like his coach got.

But since you brought it up, there are probably 50 players in the NBA that could average 30 ppg if they had the ball for 20 seconds of every possession and their coach focused the entire offense solely on them. Jason Kidd is designing Dallas' offense like an offense he wished he had when he was in his prime, where he could do whatever he wanted and the rest of the team was just there to bail him out when he got in trouble.

 

[superjohn]

Cassell’s career high in a season was 19.8 ppg. Luka is averaging 33.6 ppg this season. They aren’t comparable.

Someone is comparing Sam Cassell to Luka Doncic?

 

[nelsonmuntz]

He's a bigger and better version of James Harden

Harden's Houston teams won 60% of their games every year he was in Houston but one. Doncic's Dallas teams have won 60% of their games once since he was drafted.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Harden's Houston teams won 60% of their games every year he was in Houston but one. Doncic's Dallas teams have won 60% of their games once since he was drafted.

Luka has had for all intents and purposes a G League roster for the majority of his career. If he leaves to a team with more talent around him he’ll win more games.

 

[goskis2018]

Luka is 23 years old, to suggest that he carried his team to the conference finals for the last time in his career is insane.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Luka has had for all intents and purposes a G League roster for the majority of his career. If he leaves to a team with more talent around him he’ll win more games.

Luka helped make the team into what it is by running off Porzingis. I actually like Spencer Dinwiddie, but he is basically the same player as Hardaway and Finney-Smith and plays the same position as those two and Bullock. Not a great trade for the Mavericks, but it was hard to get value for Porzingis when the whole league knew that Doncic wanted him gone. Christian Wood was a 20ppg scorer, but in a shocker, he has apparently gotten worse after getting traded to a team with Doncic.

It is worth noting that Luka took a night off a week ago, and Dallas dropped in an undersized, over the hill point guard they signed off waivers a few days earlier, and took the Cavaliers to overtime. It was only one game, but maybe the talent on Dallas is not that bad if they get to play team basketball instead of watching the Luka Doncic Basketball Variety Hour.

Doncic is Russell Westbrook. One can appreciate his individual ability while also appreciating that he is not a champion, and therefore not an all time great. That could change, but I am not seeing any signs that Doncic wants it to change. Just watch a Mavericks game. Doncic is barking at his teammates at every stoppage of play. What stars would want to play with him?

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Luka helped make the team into what it is by running off Porzingis. I actually like Spencer Dinwiddie, but he is basically the same player as Hardaway and Finney-Smith and plays the same position as those two and Bullock. Not a great trade for the Mavericks, but it was hard to get value for Porzingis when the whole league knew that Doncic wanted him gone. Christian Wood was a 20ppg scorer, but in a shocker, he has apparently gotten worse after getting traded to a team with Doncic.

It is worth noting that Luka took a night off a week ago, and Dallas dropped in an undersized, over the hill point guard they signed off waivers a few days earlier, and took the Cavaliers to overtime. It was only one game, but maybe the talent on Dallas is not that bad if they get to play team basketball instead of watching the Luka Doncic Basketball Variety Hour.

Doncic is Russell Westbrook. One can appreciate his individual ability while also appreciating that he is not a champion, and therefore not an all time great. That could change, but I am not seeing any signs that Doncic wants it to change. Just watch a Mavericks game. Doncic is barking at his teammates at every stoppage of play. What stars would want to play with him?

Wood averaged 20 on a team where he could literally do whatever he wanted.

I don’t necessarily disagree that Kristaps is a good player and Luka probably could’ve worked with him better…But I don’t think he’s a 2nd option on a championship team good.

Luka took a bad team to the WCF. He can win. He will have better pieces in his career to do so.

 

[HuskyFich]

We are so blessed to move from LeBron KD and Kobe to Doncic Morant and Jokic. Throw in the Greek Freak as well.

Doncic is going to dominate this game for a long long time.

 

[mauconnfan]

Luka helped make the team into what it is by running off Porzingis. I actually like Spencer Dinwiddie, but he is basically the same player as Hardaway and Finney-Smith and plays the same position as those two and Bullock. Not a great trade for the Mavericks, but it was hard to get value for Porzingis when the whole league knew that Doncic wanted him gone. Christian Wood was a 20ppg scorer, but in a shocker, he has apparently gotten worse after getting traded to a team with Doncic.

It is worth noting that Luka took a night off a week ago, and Dallas dropped in an undersized, over the hill point guard they signed off waivers a few days earlier, and took the Cavaliers to overtime. It was only one game, but maybe the talent on Dallas is not that bad if they get to play team basketball instead of watching the Luka Doncic Basketball Variety Hour.

Doncic is Russell Westbrook. One can appreciate his individual ability while also appreciating that he is not a champion, and therefore not an all time great. That could change, but I am not seeing any signs that Doncic wants it to change. Just watch a Mavericks game. Doncic is barking at his teammates at every stoppage of play. What stars would want to play with him?

I mean you always have some solid opinions no doubt but this "Doncic is Russell Westbrook" is really one of your worst easily, if not THE.

Having said that the take on Larry having his way in this day and ages NBA, here's many that agree:

 

[nelsonmuntz]

We are so blessed to move from LeBron KD and Kobe to Doncic Morant and Jokic. Throw in the Greek Freak as well.

Doncic is going to dominate this game for a long long time.

There are some very good players 25 and younger. Jayson Tatum is amazing. I didn't love his game coming out of college, but he is just a winner. THIS is a guy that could average 35+ ppg but is choosing to win instead. Evan Mobley could be a 25 ppg scorer if he had to be, but that team doesn't need it and he is playing his part. FWIW, De'Aaron Fox has the freaking Sacramento Kings half a game behind Luka in the standings. That's right, the Kings. Maxey is playing great in Philadelphia. I keep expecting the Pacers to go on a 10 game losing streak, but Haliburton has that team above .500 at almost the midpoint of the season. Adebayo is only 25.

Most experts expected the Magic to be historically bad this season, and they are competitive in most games with Banchero having a great season. This is a team where Franz Wagner is the second option.

Devin Booker, Jaylen Brown and Donovan Mitchell are only 26 years old. Embiid, Giannis, Middleton, Siakum, Randle, and Jokic are all in their primes. Lebron, George, Durant, Paul, Curry and some other geezers are still playing at a high level. And there is a huge next level of talent like Bane, Markannan, Tobias Harris, etc.

The current level of talent and quality of play in the NBA is the highest it has ever been in league history. Which is why I have a hard time anointing Luka Doncic the league savior. The other players and coaches and teams are just too good for a player that plays the way Doncic does to become a dominant player. His stats will be amazing, for a while, but his wins will not. Either he has to adapt his game, or he will be one of those guys like Dominique Wilkins, who in 20-30 years, old timers will claim was the most amazing player they ever saw, but it just didn't quite work out for him to become an all-time great.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

There are some very good players 25 and younger. Jayson Tatum is amazing. I didn't love his game coming out of college, but he is just a winner. THIS is a guy that could average 35+ ppg but is choosing to win instead. Evan Mobley could be a 25 ppg scorer if he had to be, but that team doesn't need it and he is playing his part. FWIW, De'Aaron Fox has the freaking Sacramento Kings half a game behind Luka in the standings. That's right, the Kings. Maxey is playing great in Philadelphia. I keep expecting the Pacers to go on a 10 game losing streak, but Haliburton has that team above .500 at almost the midpoint of the season. Adebayo is only 25.

Most experts expected the Magic to be historically bad this season, and they are competitive in most games with Banchero having a great season. This is a team where Franz Wagner is the second option.

Devin Booker, Jaylen Brown and Donovan Mitchell are only 26 years old. Embiid, Giannis, Middleton, Siakum, Randle, and Jokic are all in their primes. Lebron, George, Durant, Paul, Curry and some other geezers are still playing at a high level. And there is a huge next level of talent like Bane, Markannan, Tobias Harris, etc.

The current level of talent and quality of play in the NBA is the highest it has ever been in league history. Which is why I have a hard time anointing Luka Doncic the league savior. The other players and coaches and teams are just too good for a player that plays the way Doncic does to become a dominant player. His stats will be amazing, for a while, but his wins will not. Either he has to adapt his game, or he will be one of those guys like Dominique Wilkins, who in 20-30 years, old timers will claim was the most amazing player they ever saw, but it just didn't quite work out for him to become an all-time great.

Franz is gonna be a star

 

[ClifSpliffy]

Check out Cassell from 1999 to 2004. That was an era where defenders could basically punch players and get away with it, and he still put up big numbers. Put any of the guys on my list with the referee protection, faster tempo, and analytics driven offenses of today, and you can add several points to their shooting percentage and PPG. NBA teams are averaging 18 more points per game than they did 20 years ago.

You put Larry Bird from his prime on the court now, and he could easily average 35 ppg for a season if he wanted to. He would be unstoppable with his outside shooting in a modern offense.

Put any of the guys on my list with the referee protection, faster tempo, and analytics driven offenses of today, and you can add several points to their shooting percentage and PPG. NBA teams are averaging 18 more points per game than they did 20 years ago.

selective recall.
fail.
NBA teams are averaging 18 more points per game than they did 20 years ago, and mostly less than they did from '59 to '69 when there was no 3 ball.
NBA League Averages - Per Game | Basketball-Reference.com

from around '78 to '92, their shooting percentage was also way better than it has been this century.
free throw attempts have gone way down, average weight has gone way up, yet pretty much since day one, the player is the same - around six and a half feet tall with an age of around 27.
u can look it up.

 

[Squeeze]

Wilt, unofficially, had a quintuple double one night in 1968. They didn’t count blocks and steals then. He had 53 points, 32 rebounds, 24 blocks, 14 assists, and 11 steals. That’s as close as I could get to Luka.

24 blocks. what? every one of those stats in that line is insane, but I can't imagine how 24 blocks is possible

 

[husky429]

24 blocks. what? every one of those stats in that line is insane, but I can't imagine how 24 blocks is possible

Wilt stats need to be taken with a barrel of salt

 

[Dezoworld]

Just imagine how scary good he would be if he got into better shape. Yikes

 

[Scoe]

Wilt stats need to be taken with a barrel of salt

Have a simulation on what if sports to see how Wilt would do in todays game.

 

[Jbirdp5]

Luka is 23 years old, to suggest that he carried his team to the conference finals for the last time in his career is insane.

Thank you. To say a 23 year old probably made his last conference final is some kind of take. Kid is made for the big moments, look at what he did in the Olympics! Does his game still need to evolve some….sure, but he’s so much more skilled than Russell Westbrook who was an athletic freak…bad comp on that one @nelsonmuntz

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Thank you. To say a 23 year old probably made his last conference final is some kind of take. Kid is made for the big moments, look at what he did in the Olympics! Does his game still need to evolve some….sure, but he’s so much more skilled than Russell Westbrook who was an athletic freak…bad comp on that one @nelsonmuntz

I hope you didn’t go to UConn because your reading comprehension is not good. I said “may have gone to his last conference finals” in response to a post comparing Doncic to one of the best players of all time.

If you think my take is so bad, then you must think Doncic is better than Bird. That is quite a take.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I hope you didn’t go to UConn because your reading comprehension is not good. I said “may have gone to his last conference finals” in response to a post comparing Doncic to one of the best players of all time.

If you think my take is so bad, then you must think Doncic is better than Bird. That is quite a take.

He’s 23 my man. He has 12+ years left in the game. He may very well end up better than Bird. That’s just reality.

 

[Jbirdp5]

I hope you didn’t go to UConn because your reading comprehension is not good. I said “may have gone to his last conference finals” in response to a post comparing Doncic to one of the best players of all time.

If you think my take is so bad, then you must think Doncic is better than Bird. That is quite a take.

Talk about a straw man, I didn’t bring bird into my critique of your opinion. I guess if you can’t rebutt what I actually said you will change it to something you can actually refute.

 

[uconnfan68]

Which is why I consider wilt to the NBA GOAT.

Russell still for me.