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Lubin Transferring

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So many factors contribute to the level of talent right now. The current talent level and depth is fairly low, but we're coming out of a period of scholarship bans, a coaching transition, and losing 4 key players of a championship team.

I'm going to wait and see what 2015 and 2016's final classes of recruits/transfers look like before I form a more definite opinion on Ollie's recruiting. He's gotten some great talents already (Hamilton/Adams), but also lost some battles that you would expect him to win (VT, VCU, UNLV consecutively). I'm cautiously optimistic, but I can see why some are a bid more worried. We definitely could use an assistant who specializes in the area like we've often discussed.

Kegler is a good guy to keep an eye on. I think he's a guy who Ollie can't let slip away at this point without it looking like another loss. He and Gilbert would be a good start for our 2016 class. It'll be interesting.
 
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BigErnMcCracken said:
The class is Adams. He's a nice start, I think he'll be a star. But I wonder what type of team he'll be playing with in two years. Again, I'm not going to convince you that recruiting is a bit worrisome so I'm not going to try. But you are certainly much more sanguine than is justified, I think.
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What does this even mean? First you said the talent level is "way down." I don't know, a core of Hamilton, Purvis, Brimah and Adams is pretty strong, talent-wise.
Then you said you're not sure what team Adams will be playing with in two years. Based on what? You're giving up on 2016 recruits already?
You keep saying people who aren't borderline panicked about recruiting are clueless. Honestly, your doomsday warnings are a lot more tiresome.
 
Yea, you marveling at Lubin's hand strength doesn't really negate the fact that Nolan was a better team defender. Nobody is arguing that he's elite, but when it comes to defending high ball screens and rotations, he was the best of the bunch, which admittedly isn't saying a lot but its the truth. Its why he went ahead of Olander in the rotation last year, and its why he got more time than Lubin and why KO eventually had enough of Facey being a revolving door and went with Nolan in his spot. If you can't see it for yourself Amore even wrote an article about it with quotes from KO himself towards the end of the season. If you disagree with KO and are seeing the game much better than him well then kudos to you.

jibsey said:
In the NIT I watched Lubin rip a rebound from an opponent and lay it back in, he had touch around the rim. You're comparing a freshman with no minutes against a junior who had a lot more time on the floor. Lubin had strength in his hands, Phil does not, and his main defense is being knocked to the floor and flopping ( he sometimes gets charges). I hate that kind of defense. Defense requires teaching and court time and we won't know if he could have been better than Nolan eventually but it's unlikely he would have been worse overall. He had more potential than Nolan IMO but it's unrealistic for Phil to take a walk senior year.
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Darn, I liked his toughness & potential. He was the one physical Big we had. I wish we played him more this past season. I noticed in games where he didn't seem to play that he didn't look happy on the bench, so I'm not surprised. Sometimes you have throw the dog a bone to keep them happy. I'm sure Ollie playing 4 guards towards the end of season didn't sit well with Rock. I wish him luck & will still follow him.

Go Rock!
 
When we recruited him ,I thought it was pretty much a waste of a scholarship.
I looked for some contribution maybe as a junior if ever.

After watching him this year , he has progressed faster than I thought.

I was looking forward to seeing him grow even more in what would have been a four year career.
Good luck to him ,but only if his. grades are in order.
transfers can kill you
 
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Sad to see him go. I think he could have been a very good player down the road. I wish him well. I know that some are thinking that frees up a ship, but will they be able to fill it with a better big or any player to that matter in this 2015 class? I don't know.
 
Would've been interesting to see what he could've developed into by his junior and senior seasons. I already liked the toughness he brought to the court as a freshman.

Ultimately though, if he wanted more minutes, sooner rather than later, the move makes sense. Hope he finds a solid program to continue his college career.
 
Five pages and nobody mentions Kasongo? Without him, we'd never have known Rock, to whom I add my good wishes.
 
More space for JUCO, transfers, internationals!

KO - can he come up B1G?

I think he can by all ACCounts.
 
Thanks Rakim and all good fortune unless we play your next destination.
5 pages of the sky is falling and the next champion hasn't been crowned. Let's exhale and think. Could Ollie have persuaded Rock to stay? I think so.
What do you want, players we lose who won't stay or ones that go where they can play?
Kids want 2 things - playing time and an NBA ticket. We are never showcasing the Rock.
Maybe Shonn is close, KO would have shared that with Lubin. In fact, maybe Shonn is waiting for this announcement so it doesn't look like Lubin was forced out.
Another thought, with a taller, stronger backcourt does the need to match team speed negate strong hands?
Last ideas, how often did Calhoun have 5 future pros and what did KO do with the undermanned 2013 team? Last March our strength and conditioning won a ring, Lubin is not leaving to improve that.
 
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I'm not a huge tenspro fan, but if the talent level really is as down as some posters on here say that it is(and I happen to agree with them a bit), then getting another guy in place of Rakim Lubin is a good place to start if they're going to upgrade the roster. Maybe that's harsh, I don't know.

Obviously the staff needs to improve with recruiting, but I think it's a little silly to make declarative statements about the roster after 1 year. UConn's had a number of mediocre seasons over the years, and talent has rarely been cited as a key reason, but for whatever reason now it's seen as a big issue after this latest season.

Adams is going to be really good and Enoch fits the profile of the type of recruit UConn had a lot of success with in the mid 2000's. They're still a piece or two away, so hopefully they get a solid 5th year guy for next year and then land some good 2016 guys.
 
I don't think his junior college stats mean much - they don't play a lot of close games at CSI, but once the playoffs started, they moved him to the starting lineup.

He's got talent. but he seems to exist without much adult oversight. God knows where he ends up or how long it takes him to end up there.
 
Fishy said:
I don't think his junior college stats mean much - they don't play a lot of close games at CSI, but once the playoffs started, they moved him to the starting lineup.

He's got talent. but he seems to exist without much adult oversight. God knows where he ends up or how long it takes him to end up there.
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I'm sure he has some talent but the last thing we need is a raw big man who changes schools about as often as Kim Kardashian changes her face. Luckily it's a problem we won't have to worry about.
 
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Leebo said:
We all knew who you were talking about. That's why he was shocked.
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Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

The deal is I have been desperately wanting us to get a beast to hold things down at the four, especially after seeing what Harrell would do against us in '13 and '14. My hopes for Rock to develop his game that much were seriously optimistic, I know. Still, I had to put my hope somewhere, so Rock it was.
 
The only reason he's barely even mentioned here is that his name is Rock. It's a cool name. The Rock needs more playing time! The Rock gave us good minutes!

If his name was Brad, he would transfer away without a whisper.
 
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Inyatkin said:
What does this even mean? First you said the talent level is "way down." I don't know, a core of Hamilton, Purvis, Brimah and Adams is pretty strong, talent-wise.
Then you said you're not sure what team Adams will be playing with in two years. Based on what? You're giving up on 2016 recruits already?
You keep saying people who aren't borderline panicked about recruiting are clueless. Honestly, your doomsday warnings are a lot more tiresome.
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What part are you struggling with? I'm not sure I ever - in fact, I didn't - say that people who aren't "borderline panicked" are clueless, you're just overreacting while you accuse someone else of overreacting. It's what we do here. And if you don't think the talent level on this team isn't what it used to be after you just watched this team finish sixth in a mid-major conference while struggling to beat teams like Tulane and ECU deep into the season (putting to the side the teams they actually lost t0) then you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

We'll see about '16. Ollie is in on a bunch of high level guys. But making peoples' lists hasn't been the problem. It's being the last name on the list.

Hope that clears up whatever was eluding you.
 
aceboon said:
Simonds is from GA, Lubin transferred to the same school his senior year, KO offered Simonds after going down to watch Lubin.
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Simonds is a stud. I hope Lubin leaving doesn't hurt our chances with Simonds.
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
What part are you struggling with? I'm not sure I ever - in fact, I didn't - say that people who aren't "borderline panicked" are clueless, you're just overreacting while you accuse someone else of overreacting. It's what we do here. And if you don't think the talent level on this team isn't what it used to be after you just watched this team finish sixth in a mid-major conference while struggling to beat teams like Tulane and ECU deep into the season (putting to the side the teams they actually lost t0) then you're certainly entitled to that opinion.

We'll see about '16. Ollie is in on a bunch of high level guys. But making peoples' lists hasn't been the problem. It's being the last name on the list.

Hope that clears up whatever was eluding you.
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I can't buy into the chicken little argument. I just can't.
Hamilton was the best UConn freshman I'd seen seen Rudy Gay. Incredible talent.
Purvis came on as the season progressed and became our best player, yes, best player. He also clearly assumed leadership of the team. It's his team now. I'd like to see what he can do.
Brimah was defensive player of the year in conference as a sophomore, who barely played before he arrived. He has gaping holes in his game, but clearly has ability to make a big impact.
Facey was a rebounding machine, and flashed some offense. If he can play better fundamental defense he can be very good.
Calhoun is a shooter, with improved D this season. His poor shot fundamentals means he needs to be wide open to shoot.
Samuel plays strong, like Taliek. Solid depth at PG who will get better with experience.
Nolan is the classic UConn big who gradually improves up to an eventual strong senior year. If you subtract the phantom fouls (about 25-30% of his fouls never happened) he'd look much better.

That talent doesn't stink. What I saw last year wasn't bad players, it was a bad team. Sometimes it happens, but those guys weren't able to play together, they didn't mesh. Maybe these players, plus some new ones will function better as a team. Ollie needs to recruit, but rare was the year when Calhoun had deep strong recruiting classes. What he did very well was find kids that were underrated.
 
HuskyHawk said:
I can't buy into the chicken little argument. I just can't.
Hamilton was the best UConn freshman I'd seen seen Rudy Gay. Incredible talent.
Purvis came on as the season progressed and became our best player, yes, best player. He also clearly assumed leadership of the team. It's his team now. I'd like to see what he can do.
Brimah was defensive player of the year in conference as a sophomore, who barely played before he arrived. He has gaping holes in his game, but clearly has ability to make a big impact.
Facey was a rebounding machine, and flashed some offense. If he can play better fundamental defense he can be very good.
Calhoun is a shooter, with improved D this season. His poor shot fundamentals means he needs to be wide open to shoot.
Samuel plays strong, like Taliek. Solid depth at PG who will get better with experience.
Nolan is the classic UConn big who gradually improves up to an eventual strong senior year. If you subtract the phantom fouls (about 25-30% of his fouls never happened) he'd look much better.

That talent doesn't stink. What I saw last year wasn't bad players, it was a bad team. Sometimes it happens, but those guys weren't able to play together, they didn't mesh. Maybe these players, plus some new ones will function better as a team. Ollie needs to recruit, but rare was the year when Calhoun had deep strong recruiting classes. What he did very well was find kids that were underrated.
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Honestly...I see it as 2 bad/mediocre recruiting classes.

Boatright/Deandre - good class
Omar/Nolan - bad. Omar was a big miss. He was supposed to be a big time player.
Facey/Samuel/Brimah - Brimah worked out better than we hoped, but haven't gotten much else from anyone else.
Hamilton - Hamilton is the best we've had in awhile
Transfers: Purvis/Cassell - Purvis is a player. He needs to get a bit smarter at basketball and work on his jump shot trajectory, but he's athletic and can really penetrate. Cassell seemed to struggle getting used to the pace of play. I think he'll be improved next yr. Needs to build confidence.
Jalen/Enoch - TBD

So the point is that we have 2 recruiting classes of guys who can't score. Once Omar and Phil graduate, we'll be in much better shape, if we continue to recruit the way we have the last 2 yrs with Hamilton and Adams.
 
HuskyHawk said:
I can't buy into the chicken little argument. I just can't.
Hamilton was the best UConn freshman I'd seen seen Rudy Gay. Incredible talent.
Purvis came on as the season progressed and became our best player, yes, best player. He also clearly assumed leadership of the team. It's his team now. I'd like to see what he can do.
Brimah was defensive player of the year in conference as a sophomore, who barely played before he arrived. He has gaping holes in his game, but clearly has ability to make a big impact.
Facey was a rebounding machine, and flashed some offense. If he can play better fundamental defense he can be very good.
Calhoun is a shooter, with improved D this season. His poor shot fundamentals means he needs to be wide open to shoot.
Samuel plays strong, like Taliek. Solid depth at PG who will get better with experience.
Nolan is the classic UConn big who gradually improves up to an eventual strong senior year. If you subtract the phantom fouls (about 25-30% of his fouls never happened) he'd look much better.

That talent doesn't stink. What I saw last year wasn't bad players, it was a bad team. Sometimes it happens, but those guys weren't able to play together, they didn't mesh. Maybe these players, plus some new ones will function better as a team. Ollie needs to recruit, but rare was the year when Calhoun had deep strong recruiting classes. What he did very well was find kids that were underrated.
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Come on. You are stating the peak/ best case scenario with every guy.

Agree on D-Ham; kid is a stud. Purvis has potential but like everyone else is extremely sporadic and inconsistent. Brimah again has great potential, but is so inconsistent and a horrific rebounder for a starting center.

A few points stand out:

1.) Facey showed brief flashes here and there, but overall he isn't even close to developed enough that he should be our starting 4. He wouldn't have seen more than a few garbage minutes of pt on a number of our teams from 1990 to 2012. His development is fine. 6 and 4-5 isnt bad for him in his second year. Nobody would be complaining about him if he backed up Jeff Adrien his first two years. The problem is we needed him as a starter and hes clearly not ready. This points to a lack of overall talent/ depth.

2.) Omar cant shoot. Everyone wants him to be a shooter and we need him to be, but he cant. He has absolutely terrible shooting form and a low release, slow ugly shot. Love his attitude. Seems like a great kid and team player, but he hasnt given anyone a reason to be optimistic about making a big jump.

3.) T-Sam would make a decent back-up/ 3rd string change of pace guard. He cant shoot and his handle is just decent at best. But he is big, strong, and can get to the hole. The problem is he was our 3rd guard overall. That's a huge problem and does point to a lack of overall talent.

4.) Nolan actually came on in the last 5 games and was really improved. He wouldn't be a bad option as our 4th overall big. Someone to go on and play either the 4 or the 5 for a few minutes here and there to give others a breather, or play when someones in foul trouble. Once again the issue is he is our 2nd big and was starting at the end. This points to a lack of overall talent/ depth.

Overall, it seems people are confusing potential with talent/skills today. Brimah has great potential. Facey has great potential. Purvis has good to very good potential. Each of them are extremely inconsistent and lack fundamental basketball skills today. The problem is that due to a lack of overall depth/ front end talent, we have had to rush each of their developments.

Brimah could be a great center, if Jeff Adrien was playing next to him. Facey would be fine next to Okafor or Josh Boone. Purvis would be a great 6th man backing up Ben Gordon or Boat last year. The problem is we are relying on these guys to be critical pieces to the team before they are ready.

And the reason for this is that we do lack the front end talent that would require these guys to perform the roles that they are more suited to today. Brimah, Facey, T-Sam, Omar, Cassell Jr, Rock (now gone), Nolan. None of those guys can anchor a recruiting class. You cant expect starting level production/ consistency from them until year 3 or even 4. They are all decent role players, one dimensional guys, but none are well rounded enough. We need to put more high end talent around them and each of them is fine.

We haven't brought in enough impact recruits to surround with them. We've gotten D-Ham, and that's really it (Purvis was a transfer but he can count too since he was 5*). So while the overall talent isnt as pitiful as some would make it seem, it is down. This roster has plenty of potential, but it also has a lot of holes, and glaring holes in certain fundamental skill sets.
 
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