Lou's mad respect for Stewie

[HuskylnSC]

Maybe we can solve this GOAT thing by introducing...GOAT 1.0, GOAT 2.0, GOAT 3.0.....etc.

Because this is the Boneyard, we will then evolve the debate to who is the GOAT of GOATs. But it's great to be able to have the debate.

 

[diggerfoot]

How can any Goat conversation not include Cynthia Cooper who entered the WNBA at the age of 34 which was past her prime years and won four straight championships , Back to back MVPS, Three straight scoring titles, and 4 straight Finals MVPS. As Great as the three Greatest Uconn legends are, neither of them have ever won back to back Championships. No other player has ever dominated the league both statistically and victoriously as she did. I ok with differing opinions by not to include Cooper in any such conversation is discounting the value of unprecedented winning(while never losing a playoff series) as a measure of Greatness.

If you want to include Cooper in the conversation you cannot leave out her teammates Thompson and Swoopes, who both were once voted as the top 15 players ever. To the extent that an entire career matters, Thompson probably deserves the nod over Cooper; it’s not Thompson’s fault that Cooper came in as an older player while Thompson came in as the 1st draft choice out of college.

I assume a major factor in singling out Cooper, without even mentioning her HoF teammates with equally impressive career stats, is that Cooper won the Finals MVP. That’s a legitimate argument, though you still have to consider the superb triumvirate of superstardom she played with on those championships.

If Seattle wins this year and Stewart gets MVP she will be on track with Cooper in Finals MVP regard, back-to-back championships (considering she did not play last year) and two back-to-back MVPs. Of course, she would still need two more to match Cooper’s total. IMO she would also need a long career like Thompson, who is as deserving as Cooper for being mentioned as a GOAT.

 

[plastic]

If you want to include Cooper in the conversation you cannot leave out her teammates Thompson and Swoopes, who both were once voted as the top 15 players ever. To the extent that an entire career matters, Thompson probably deserves the nod over Cooper; it’s not Thompson’s fault that Cooper came in as an older player while Thompson came in as the 1st draft choice out of college.

I assume a major factor in singling out Cooper, without even mentioning her HoF teammates with equally impressive career stats, is that Cooper won the Finals MVP. That’s a legitimate argument, though you still have to consider the superb triumvirate of superstardom she played with on those championships.

If Seattle wins this year and Stewart gets MVP she will be on track with Cooper in Finals MVP regard, back-to-back championships (considering she did not play last year) and two back-to-back MVPs. Of course, she would still need two more to match Cooper’s total. IMO she would also need a long career like Thompson, who is as deserving as Cooper for being mentioned as a GOAT.

I realize Thompson and Swoopes were standout players in their own right but if you are not the consensus greatest player own team(s), can you logically be considered the greatest player of all time? What leading Goat Candidate has ever been beat out for a finals MVP by the same teammate 4 straight times?

 

[diggerfoot]

I realize Thompson and Swoopes were standout players in their own right but if you are not the consensus greatest player own team(s), can you logically be considered the greatest player of all time? What leading Goat Candidate has ever been beat out for a finals MVP by the same teammate 4 straight times?

Swoopes was league MVP one of those four years, plus she was league MVP 3 years to Cooper’s two. Once again, it’s not Swoope’s fault that Cooper started later in her career. The two years that Cooper won league MVP, and the first two championships, were won while there was a competing league that also had good American players. Would Houston have the same dominance if more talent was diffused into the league? Maybe, but by the time the talent was concentrated in one league it was Swoopes, not Cooper, that won league MVP while Houston won the championship.

They brought different things to the table. Cooper, as the most experienced, savvy and still well-conditioned of the three, also was the best scorer. Like Taurasi she was also the best scorer in the league the first three years, two of those with diluted talent. Neither Moore nor Stewart are likely to be the league scorer for many of their years. Should they be dropped from the discussion or should Thompson be included because of her rebounding?

I understand broadening the possibilities, in which case Leslie should be part of the conversation. I suspect broadening the possibilities while singling out only one player, the oldest and most savvy out of the most dominant triumvirate ever to exist during a talent diluted period of the league, is the advocacy of an ardent fan of Cooper more than a serious advocacy of broadening the discussion for GOAT. Nothing wrong with that, Cooper deserves having ardent supporters for GOAT.

on edit: Let’s hypothetically consider that the triumvirate were of equal worth. Thompson would be the least likely to get an MVP because she came in as a true freshman. Cooper would be most likely as the most experienced. In that case her age is a benefit. Yet if they are of equal worth she is least likely to accumulate the most MVPs, once again because of her age, and in fact Swoopes did have more. The fact that Cooper came in older to a stacked team in a diluted start-up league provided a short term benefit but a long term handicap for a GOAT discussion.

 

[CTisballers]

Again, no disrespect, but Maya has to play to have anything to say about GOAT status.

I think she’s played and won enough but what she accomplished is GOAT status and what she stood for by sitting out was even bigger then being called a GOAT

 

[CTisballers]

Swoopes was league MVP one of those four years, plus she was league MVP 3 years to Cooper’s two. Once again, it’s not Swoope’s fault that Cooper started later in her career. The two years that Cooper won league MVP, and the first two championships, were won while there was a competing league that also had good American players. Would Houston have the same dominance if more talent was diffused into the league? Maybe, but by the time the talent was concentrated in one league it was Swoopes, not Cooper, that won league MVP while Houston won the championship.

They brought different things to the table. Cooper, as the most experienced, savvy and still well-conditioned of the three, also was the best scorer. Like Taurasi she was also the best scorer in the league the first three years, two of those with diluted talent. Neither Moore nor Stewart are likely to be the league scorer for many of their years. Should they be dropped from the discussion or should Thompson be included because of her rebounding?

I understand broadening the possibilities, in which case Leslie should be part of the conversation. I suspect broadening the possibilities while singling out only one player, the oldest and most savvy out of the most dominant triumvirate ever to exist during a talent diluted period of the league, is the advocacy of an ardent fan of Cooper more than a serious advocacy of broadening the discussion for GOAT. Nothing wrong with that, Cooper deserves having ardent supporters for GOAT.

on edit: Let’s hypothetically consider that the triumvirate were of equal worth. Thompson would be the least likely to get an MVP because she came in as a true freshman. Cooper would be most likely as the most experienced. In that case her age is a benefit. Yet if they are of equal worth she is least likely to accumulate the most MVPs, once again because of her age, and in fact Swoopes did have more. The fact that Cooper came in older to a stacked team in a diluted start-up league provided a short term benefit but a long term handicap for a GOAT discussion.

And it’s clearly not Cooper fault for being older and still dominated like she did. If you were a fan of the young WNBA then you would know C. Coop was the leader and soul of that team. How many Chips did Swoops and Thompson win when Cooper retired Also if the WNBA existed a few years earlier you would of seen Greatness beyond Greatness because C. Coop was definitely the best in her time playing in the W

 

[diggerfoot]

And it’s clearly not Cooper fault for being older and still dominated like she did. If you were a fan of the young WNBA then you would know C. Coop was the leader and soul of that team. How many Chips did Swoops and Thompson win when Cooper retired Also if the WNBA existed a few years earlier you would of seen Greatness beyond Greatness because C. Coop was definitely the best in her time playing in the W

My point was she dominated at the start of a start up league BECAUSE of her age, which helped to make her the leader of a dominating triumvirate, not DESPITE her age, as the original point implies. There is nothing about being 34 that should handicap a player physically. It does, however, provide a keen mental edge. The physical handicap is that sh can’t play as long if she starts so late.

How many championships did Swoopes, Thompson OR Cooper win when they were not part of the triumvirate? I support Cooper being included in a GOAT discussion, but frankly the more powerful case I think comes in including her college years. Thinking she was special because she started winning championships and leading a diluted start up league in scoring at age 34 does not cut it for me. Her age gave her an advantage in the start up league, not a disadvantage.

The disadvantage is that we do not know what might have happened over the full course of a career. Maybe she’s the leader if all three started at the same age, maybe not. If she still would have been, then that would have been a powerful argument in her favor. If not, then her leading of the triumvirate was because of her age, not despite it.

 

[cbraarj]

No disrespect, but DT is the WBB GOAT (did you see the tee shirt?) until Stewie proves otherwise.

Nobody has won NCs in WCBB like Diana did in 03 & 04! In all of WCBB ever! That speaks for itself.!

 

[chj001]

As Great as the three Greatest Uconn legends are, neither of them have ever won back to back Championships.

Not so fast. Since neither Stewie nor Sue played last year, I believe they've both won back to back championships!

 

[cbraarj]

All I know is that you just bow down to Stewie, Maya, DT and Bird and when 2 just happen to be on the same team, you just

Just imagine if the WNBA was like the ABL and players were chosen by regions where they played CBB. Having all the UConn players on one team eventually!

My point was she dominated at the start of a start up league BECAUSE of her age, which helped to make her the leader of a dominating triumvirate, not DESPITE her age, as the original point implies. There is nothing about being 34 that should handicap a player physically. It does, however, provide a keen mental edge. The physical handicap is that sh can’t play as long if she starts so late.

How many championships did Swoopes, Thompson OR Cooper win when they were not part of the triumvirate? I support Cooper being included in a GOAT discussion, but frankly the more powerful case I think comes in including her college years. Thinking she was special because she started winning championships and leading a diluted start up league in scoring at age 34 does not cut it for me. Her age gave her an advantage in the start up league, not a disadvantage.

The disadvantage is that we do not know what might have happened over the full course of a career. Maybe she’s the leader if all three started at the same age, maybe not. If she still would have been, then that would have been a powerful argument in her favor. If not, then her leading of the triumvirate was because of her age, not despite it.

League was watered down because they had the other league too.

 

[cbraarj]

Not so fast. Since neither Stewie nor Sue played last year, I believe they've both won back to back championships!

Seattle didn't.

 

[CajunHusky]

Lou, Karlie and Tiffany Hayes playing now (15:15 EST 10-7) on canalfeb.tv

Lou jumped center at start of the game. 13 points at the half. (edit .... 18 points at the half)

 

[EdSaid]

When did GOAT become Greatest Of All Time?

The first time I heard it used in this manner was with Tom Brady midway through his career.

For years in baseball, goat meant just the opposite.

Goat: Such a Derogatory Term

Fred Merkle and Steve Bartman. What do these two men have in common? They are both respective "goats" in the world of baseball. Now, "goat" used in this context is

www.therotundaonline.com

.

 

[nwhoopfan]

A goat and a GOAT are not the same thing, as you noted they are opposite. The term GOAT was thrown at MJ long before Brady.

 

[plastic]

My point was she dominated at the start of a start up league BECAUSE of her age, which helped to make her the leader of a dominating triumvirate, not DESPITE her age, as the original point implies. There is nothing about being 34 that should handicap a player physically. It does, however, provide a keen mental edge. The physical handicap is that sh can’t play as long if she starts so late.

How many championships did Swoopes, Thompson OR Cooper win when they were not part of the triumvirate? I support Cooper being included in a GOAT discussion, but frankly the more powerful case I think comes in including her college years. Thinking she was special because she started winning championships and leading a diluted start up league in scoring at age 34 does not cut it for me. Her age gave her an advantage in the start up league, not a disadvantage.

The disadvantage is that we do not know what might have happened over the full course of a career. Maybe she’s the leader if all three started at the same age, maybe not. If she still would have been, then that would have been a powerful argument in her favor. If not, then her leading of the triumvirate was because of her age, not despite it.

The one year Cooper played without Swoopes (1997) She still won it all. Swoopes never won without Cooper. Thompson never won without Cooper and never won with the Sparks while playing with Mega Stars Lisa Leslie and Candace Parker.

 

[CajunHusky]

Lou, Karlie and Tiffany Hayes playing now (15:15 EST 10-7) on canalfeb.tv

Lou jumped center at start of the game. 13 points at the half.

Lou led all scorers with 25 points and 8 rebounds in 22 minutes. Karlie was second with 15 points

 

[eebmg]

Lou led all scorers with 25 points and 8 rebounds in 22 minutes. Karlie was second with 15 points

Is their a direct link? I tried navigating the site but I at least was confused.

 

[CajunHusky]

Is their a direct link? I tried navigating the site but I at least was confused.

I watched the game on FEB

I picked up the recap from Lou's mom twitter: https://twitter.com/Motherjones38 she had links to various sites. they are in Spanish but some will link with a google translator. it is an automated translation so some words may not be quite right but you'll get the gist.

her team's website is at: http://www.perfumeriasavenidabaloncesto.com/

the team's website has a calendar which lists their next game as Saturday at noon EST (6 hour time difference)

 

[CajunHusky]

p.s if you scroll down on FEB there is a replay available of the game. i don't know how long they keep it available.

 

[eebmg]

I watched the game on FEB

I picked up the recap from Lou's mom twitter: https://twitter.com/Motherjones38 she had links to various sites. they are in Spanish but some will link with a google translator. it is an automated translation so some words may not be quite right but you'll get the gist.

her team's website is at: http://www.perfumeriasavenidabaloncesto.com/

the team's website has a calendar which lists their next game as Saturday at noon EST (6 hour time difference)

Ok. Got the highlight video for Lou. Looks great

 

[uconnfan68]

How can any Goat conversation not include Cynthia Cooper who entered the WNBA at the age of 34 which was past her prime years and won four straight championships , Back to back MVPS, Three straight scoring titles, and 4 straight Finals MVPS. As Great as the three Greatest Uconn legends are, neither of them have ever won back to back Championships. No other player has ever dominated the league both statistically and victoriously as she did. I ok with differing opinions by not to include Cooper in any such conversation is discounting the value of unprecedented winning(while never losing a playoff series) as a measure of Greatness.

She had a pretty good team... Seattle might do it (4 in a row)... Stewie won her last 2, missing her injury year.

 

[CajunHusky]

Ok. Got the highlight video for Lou. Looks great

vintage Lou! see what happens when someone actually passes her the ball....

 

[hoophuskee]

I think she’s played and won enough but what she accomplished is GOAT status and what she stood for by sitting out was even bigger then being called a GOAT

What she did off the court is off the charts. It's a number 1 national bestseller and an Academy Award Movie all but greater - all rolled up into one.

As far as GOAT-- I didn't watch much during the Cooper/Swoopes era. And I understand Cheryl Miller was a beast too. Just never saw them. But the three best college players I ever saw were Stewart, Maya and DT. And they certainly have produced at the pro level. IMO all 3 have legit resumes for being in the GOAT discussion. For me the best college player was Stewart but I certainly can understand an opposing view.

 

[Rixxx]

Lou may end up having a wonderful overseas career.

 

[Huskee11]

Lou may end up having a wonderful overseas career.

Agree!

Don`t write her off in the WNBA just yet either.

She looked very active out there, which is a very good sign re physical health and attitude.

Where are the knee pads? Back in Huntington Beach I guess.

Four of her baskets were on assists from Karlie, and two on offensive rebounds. A couple of hoops should have been "and ones". Love a lot of them, especially the step back three at the end.

I think this will be a great situation for her. She is with her sister/BFF, on a team that should roll through that league, and she and Tiffany should be quite a scoring duo.