Louisville

[uconnell]

I just realize that UCONN beat them in Football, women's basketball, and baseball. The only thing they won was men's basketball in the BE tourney and the NCAA because we weren't allowed to play.

 

[JaYnYcE]

And Louisville beat UCONN to a more stable conference.


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[UConnJim]

And Louisville beat UCONN to a more stable conference.


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Which is the only win that counts last year.

 

[epark88]

And Louisville beat UCONN to a more stable conference.


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I like Warde Manuel. Smart guy. Making some nice moves given the school's current circumstanses.

But he's no Tom Jurich...

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[uconnell]

And Louisville beat UCONN to a more stable conference.

That's my point!!

 

[JaYnYcE]

Wasn't clear, it read as you were trying to 1UP Louisville.


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[uconnell]

Wasn't clear, it read as you were trying to 1UP Louisvill

Well that too. I don't particularly care for Louisville.

 

[frankthetank]

I like Warde Manuel. Smart guy. Making some nice moves given the school's current circumstanses.

But he's no Tom Jurich...

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I'm not a Louisville guy at all, but Tom Jurich is pound-for-pound one of the best ADs in the country (probably top 5). When you look at Louisville's conference situation, facilities and revenue now compared to when he started there (which coincided with the beginning of the BCS era), it's wouldn't be an exaggeration to state that no single athletic department has been transformed in a more dramatic fashion during that timeframe. WVU's Oliver Luck is up there, too, so I don't think that it's an accident at all that WVU and Louisville were both able to find lifelines out of the old Big East. There's only a finite amount of "proactiveness" that a school can take in conference realignment (as much of it might be due to fixed or closed to fixed factors such as location, TV market, academic reputation, etc.), but both Jurich and Luck maximized that finite amount to the fullest. Most ADs aren't extraordinarily good or bad either way (and Manuel probably fits into that large mass in the middle), but Jurich and Luck are definitely among the few that you can legitimately call high-impact ADs.

 

[uconnell]

Come on Frank, Ollie Luck lucked out because TAM left for the SEC and they needed another school like QUICK, although I don't blame them for leaving. Jurich while supposedly acting in some capacity for the BIG EAST was wooing the ACC. While Herbst and Manuel were sipping drinks poolside in the Carribean. Should have been working the phones at least.

 

[TRest]

I'm not a Louisville guy at all, but Tom Jurich is pound-for-pound one of the best ADs in the country (probably top 5). When you look at Louisville's conference situation, facilities and revenue now compared to when he started there (which coincided with the beginning of the BCS era), it's wouldn't be an exaggeration to state that no single athletic department has been transformed in a more dramatic fashion during that timeframe. WVU's Oliver Luck is up there, too, so I don't think that it's an accident at all that WVU and Louisville were both able to find lifelines out of the old Big East. There's only a finite amount of "proactiveness" that a school can take in conference realignment (as much of it might be due to fixed or closed to fixed factors such as location, TV market, academic reputation, etc.), but both Jurich and Luck maximized that finite amount to the fullest. Most ADs aren't extraordinarily good or bad either way (and Manuel probably fits into that large mass in the middle), but Jurich and Luck are definitely among the few that you can legitimately call high-impact ADs.

Any idea how UL can claim such a huge gain in AD revenue over the last couple of years? It is miles ahead of the rest of the BE, while sharing the same crappy tv money. I can't believe moving from Freedom Hall to Yum! acounts for all of it, as fannies in the seats hasn't changed much. It can't be all luxury suites, although apparently UL raped the city regarding rent and everything else. From where I sit, not knowing or caring much about college revenues (until it had a negative affect on UConn) it looks like UL is cooking the books as part of its push for getting into the B12 and later the ACC.

 

[noeynox]

Come on Frank, Ollie Luck lucked out because TAM left for the SEC and they needed another school like QUICK, although I don't blame them for leaving. Jurich while supposedly acting in some capacity for the BIG EAST was wooing the ACC. While Herbst and Manuel were sipping drinks poolside in the Carribean. Should have been working the phones at least.

Um, that is called seizing the opportunity. Things were getting ugly real fast, in the Big East. WVU went to war and called in the big dogs when Louisville tried to take their spot in the Big 12. Luck and WVU get much props for fighting their way off the sinking ship.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Any idea how UL can claim such a huge gain in AD revenue over the last couple of years? It is miles ahead of the rest of the BE, while sharing the same crappy tv money. I can't believe moving from Freedom Hall to Yum! acounts for all of it, as fannies in the seats hasn't changed much. It can't be all luxury suites, although apparently UL raped the city regarding rent and everything else. From where I sit, not knowing or caring much about college revenues (until it had a negative affect on UConn) it looks like UL is cooking the books as part of its push for getting into the B12 and later the ACC.

L'Ville would have to have books to cook. I think they just make up numbers, it is certainly how they got the arena built.

 

[The Funster]

Um, that is called seizing the opportunity. Things were getting ugly real fast, in the Big East. WVU went to war and called in the big dogs when Louisville tried to take their spot in the Big 12. Luck and WVU get much props for fighting their way off the sinking ship.

I say a good job for WVU and they wound up in a better spot than the AAC, obviously, but there is still a certain amount of buyer's remorse what with all the travel issues and associated expense.

 

[noeynox]

I say a good job for WVU and they wound up in a better spot than the AAC, obviously, but there is still a certain amount of buyer's remorse what with all the travel issues and associated expense.

There is no buyers remorse. The whining you hear now is more work by Luck to try and leverage some scheduling concessions for his school. I mean the travel in our current league is not going to be a picnic either.

 

[UPitt]

Come on Frank, Ollie Luck lucked out because TAM left for the SEC and they needed another school like QUICK, although I don't blame them for leaving. Jurich while supposedly acting in some capacity for the BIG EAST was wooing the ACC. While Herbst and Manuel were sipping drinks poolside in the Carribean. Should have been working the phones at least.

WVU replaced Mizzou. TAMU left for the SEC giving the SEC 13 teams. Mizzou followed TAMU to the SEC leaving the Big 12 with a spot to fill for TV contracts. WVU did a good job positioning itself for the Big 12, as it was the last remaining lifeline at the time. But prior to Mizzou leaving for the SEC, WVU had done a job good positioning itself to be the 14th member of the SEC had Mizzou stayed in the Big 12 or gone to the B1G. I think Ollie Luck deserves a lot of credit for insisting that his school find a major conference. Louisville built the program up and put itself in a position where the ACC via FSU was forced to take them on.

Uconn needs to dominate the AAC and make itself the clear cut choice for future expansion.

 

[frankthetank]

Come on Frank, Ollie Luck lucked out because TAM left for the SEC and they needed another school like QUICK, although I don't blame them for leaving. Jurich while supposedly acting in some capacity for the BIG EAST was wooing the ACC. While Herbst and Manuel were sipping drinks poolside in the Carribean. Should have been working the phones at least.

Yes, it took that occurring for WVU to be able to move, but you could say that about the vast majority of conference realignment moves. Utah got its opportunity to move to the Pac-12 when Texas killed the Pac-16 proposal. Rutgers got its opportunity to move to the Big Ten when Maryland decided to leave the ACC (and thereby opening up a spot for Louisville).

It's not just working the phones - both Jurich and Luck ran excellent overall athletic departments while still not wavering in making sure that football investment was priority #1 (even in the case of a basketball school like Louisville). I'm not the one saying this - I've talked to plenty of more people with more direct knowledge that the reputations of both Jurich and Luck are extremely high in athletic circles. Charlie Strong would be coaching an SEC program next year and Rick Pitino would have never come to Louisville if someone lesser than Jurich were running the athletic department. Jurich wasn't the only factor for Louisville getting into the ACC, but his getting the school into position to grab the ACC invite in the first place was the result of his work over the past 15 years.

 

[IMind]

I understand the bitterness but most of it is directed at the wrong AD. The ground work for UConn's conference situation was all laid out by Hathaway. He hired PP, he allowed the APR situation to occur, he woefully understaffed our compliance department, alienated big doners, and never got the new basketball facility off the ground. It took Pendergast, what, like three months (during a recession!) to get enough cash to start the building process... and it had been on the table for what seems like a decade.

 

[The Funster]

There is no buyers remorse. The whining you hear now is more work by Luck to try and leverage some scheduling concessions for his school. I mean the travel in our current league is not going to be a picnic either.

I disagree. I don't think Luck was whining. I don't think he was trying to leverage scheduling concessions either. The article, as I remember it, was a statement about WVU's burden ($ and student time) for additional travel in the Big 12 and the fact that Luck went to the conference and the conference replied that WVU knew what they getting into and that they'd try to help if they they can but there would be no promises.

I agree that our travel in the AAC isn't going to be a picnic. It's going to suck and we're getting a s hitload less $ to do it.

 

[upstater]

L'Ville would have to have books to cook. I think they just make up numbers, it is certainly how they got the arena built.

It was a smart PR campaign. They just dumped all department revenues like sponsorships and donations, etc., into one sport. That's how they claimed that Ville bball was the most lucrative around. They just cooked the books a little bit, then called the media's attention to it.

The top line # has be for real however. Total revenues are real. They can only be cooked by giving ALL the school's royalty money to sports and by not including any facility money.

Another way is to start a capital campaign for sports facilities, and when you're ready to go, dump all the donations into sports as sports revenue while the academic side bonds the entirety of the buildout. I've seen that used to.

As for Louisville, if you go back just a few years, you'll see that they were under UConn in revenue. So, the extra revenue (about $15-20 million) seems to be entirely the result of free buildings and filling up extra seats. Jurich deserves the credit there.

I'm much less impressed by claims to Villebball being the most lucrative. If you look at Ville's column for AD revenues outside football and bball, it's barren. Everything got dumped into bball.

One way to compare the schools is sponsorships and royalties. UConn brings in $25 million while Louisville is up to $16 million from $12 a couple years ago.

 

[WestHartHusk]

It was a smart PR campaign. They just dumped all department revenues like sponsorships and donations, etc., into one sport. That's how they claimed that Ville bball was the most lucrative around. They just cooked the books a little bit, then called the media's attention to it.

The top line # has be for real however. Total revenues are real. They can only be cooked by giving ALL the school's royalty money to sports and by not including any facility money.

Another way is to start a capital campaign for sports facilities, and when you're ready to go, dump all the donations into sports as sports revenue while the academic side bonds the entirety of the buildout. I've seen that used to.

As for Louisville, if you go back just a few years, you'll see that they were under UConn in revenue. So, the extra revenue (about $15-20 million) seems to be entirely the result of free buildings and filling up extra seats. Jurich deserves the credit there.

I'm much less impressed by claims to Villebball being the most lucrative. If you look at Ville's column for AD revenues outside football and bball, it's barren. Everything got dumped into bball.

One way to compare the schools is sponsorships and royalties. UConn brings in $25 million while Louisville is up to $16 million from $12 a couple years ago.

But they are accounting for revenues that should, under any equitable arrangement, be going to the city/arena, so I say you don't have books to cook. You have two books, spread across two entities, with all the revenue being accounted for by the school, and all of the expenses by the arena/city/state. I've had some wealthy neighbors if I took their paychecks, and sent them my mortgage, would that make me rich?? In L'Ville, Kentucky I suppose so, but not anywhere else.

EDIT: And I would add, they are also co&kblocking the city from trying to lure an NBA franchise (long-short for sure), so not only are they stealing revenue, they are actually preventing the city/arena from attempting to pay the $890M that the arena is going to end up costing them, all while not producing 1/2 of the TIF revenue that they promised the city. And this is the "partner" the ACC selected.

 

[noeynox]

I understand the bitterness but most of it is directed at the wrong AD. The ground work for UConn's conference situation was all laid out by Hathaway. He hired PP, he allowed the APR situation to occur, he woefully understaffed our compliance department, alienated big doners, and never got the new basketball facility off the ground. It took Pendergast, what, like three months (during a recession!) to get enough cash to start the building process... and it had been on the table for what seems like a decade.

Can't like this post enough. He is public enemy #1 for where we are today.

 

[upstater]

But they are accounting for revenues that should, under any equitable arrangement, be going to the city/arena, so I say you don't have books to cook. You have two books, spread across two entities, with all the revenue being accounted for by the school, and all of the expenses by the arena/city/state. I've had some wealthy neighbors if I took their paychecks, and sent them my mortgage, would that make me rich?? In L'Ville, Kentucky I suppose so, but not anywhere else.

EDIT: And I would add, they are also co&kblocking the city from trying to lure an NBA franchise (long-short for sure), so not only are they stealing revenue, they are actually preventing the city/arena from attempting to pay the $890M that the arena is going to end up costing them, all while not producing 1/2 of the TIF revenue that they promised the city. And this is the "partner" the ACC selected.

That happens at every school anyway. The academic side takes care of facilities and you never see it on any ADs ledgers. Well, you do see it a little bit. Michigan's AD, for instance, shells out $2 million a year for the bonding of facilities to the academic side. But the academic side spent more than $260m for this purpose just 2 years ago. $2 million to service $260m? Hmmmmm.

 

[WestHartHusk]

That happens at every school anyway. The academic side takes care of facilities and you never see it on any ADs ledgers. Well, you do see it a little bit. Michigan's AD, for instance, shells out $2 million a year for the bonding of facilities to the academic side. But the academic side spent more than $260m for this purpose just 2 years ago. $2 million to service $260m? Hmmmmm.

But that is at least kept within the sphere of the university. What I am talking about here is accounting for revenues that by all means should not be going to Louisville at all, absent, what appears to be, complete corruption in Louisville/Kentucky, while simultaneously moving the costs completely outside of the university (unlike the Michigan example).

 

[upstater]

But that is at least kept within the sphere of the university. What I am talking about here is accounting for revenues that by all means should not be going to Louisville at all, absent, what appears to be, complete corruption in Louisville/Kentucky, while simultaneously moving the costs completely outside of the university (unlike the Michigan example).

Well, ultimately it is the taxpayer of the city and state!

 

[MrPibb503]

Check the revenue and profit numbers from before the Yum Center was constructed. Louisville was tops in revenue when they played at Freedom Hall. Reason is they have a ticket donation program, sponsorship in a decent market devoid of pro teams and a huge facility.


You can argue one way or the other, but the only thing that matters from a conference standpoint is investment of that revenue. Louisville builds facilities and pays its coaches like a top 10 athletics program in the country. So whether the actual revenue numbers are inaccurate doesn't really matter. They spend, which is all anyone really cares about.