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Lindy's preseason top 25

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Georgia also has Anne Marie Armstrong, who can do it all.

I too would take Kelly Faris, who I think just happens to be the best all around defender in WCBB.
I just don't understand how anyone could not have Stef Dolson on one of the 3 All America teams.
I too say she is the 2nd best center in wcbb.
 
I see some support for Tennessee being higher.

I would ask those folks to look at it this way. Putting aside the team I am about to describe is Tennessee, where do you see a team being ranked that:

1. Had their HOF coach retire and replaced by someone that hasn't had head coaching experience.

2. Lost all 5 starters to graduation and 3 were drafted in the WNBA and two in the top 10.

3. Returning backcourt shot 37 and 38 from the floor and 31 and 33 on 3's.

4. Only true post/center averaged 8 minutes a game and was foul prone.

5. 6 returning players averaged 16 minutes, 6 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists per game.

6. Lost 9 games last year and play Baylor, Stanford, ND, Miami, GTech, RU, MTSU, UNC, and Texas OOC along with LSU, Kentucky, Vandy, Georgia, South Carolina this year.

Must be a real down year in WCBB.
 
Steph has potential to be the 2nd best center, but she did not have a great season last year.
 
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Lindy's never was very good with WBB. They seem to put most of their effort into MBB. WBB is more of an afterthought. Street & Smith was the only one who really did much WBB wise. Haven't seen their publication in a few years though.
 
doggydaddy said:
I see some support for Tennessee being higher.

I would ask those folks to look at it this way. Putting aside the team I am about to describe is Tennessee, where do you see a team being ranked that:

1. Had their HOF coach retire and replaced by someone that hasn't had head coaching experience.

2. Lost all 5 starters to graduation and 3 were drafted in the WNBA and two in the top 10.

3. Returning backcourt shot 37 and 38 from the floor and 31 and 33 on 3's.

4. Only true post/center averaged 8 minutes a game and was foul prone.

5. 6 returning players averaged 16 minutes, 6 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists per game.

6. Lost 9 games last year and play Baylor, Stanford, ND, Miami, GTech, RU, MTSU, UNC, and Texas OOC along with LSU, Kentucky, Vandy, Georgia, South Carolina this year.

Must be a real down year in WCBB.
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Playing devil's advocate here (for the record, I don't disagree with you):

Now imagine Chris Dailey was taking over for Geno, and we were starting Kiah, KML, Morgan, Breanna, and Mo this year, with Banks as sixth "man" and a couple of hypothetical role/bench players on the team (i.e., the starting five that got UConn to a Final Four last season had all graduated). A lot of people would be clamoring for this to be a top 10 squad, but one could say a number of the same things about it that you said about Tennssee.

Tennessee will have its preseason advocates due to the number of high school AAs on the team. They just have more talent than most. Personally, I'm skeptical that the LVs have the experience, leadership, player development, accountability, and S&C right now. They didn't have it last year, certainly.

Fortunately for them, they have the opportunity to play the schedule you mentioned above and prove the doubters wrong...or right.
 
alexrgct said:
I would take Kelly Faris for a year than anyone on the third team. If that makes me a homer, so be it.
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Kind of low don't you think? ;) Not that I am biased......
 
alexrgct said:
Playing devil's advocate here (for the record, I don't disagree with you):

Now imagine Chris Dailey was taking over for Geno, and we were starting Kiah, KML, Morgan, Breanna, and Mo this year, with Banks as sixth "man" and a couple of hypothetical role/bench players on the team (i.e., the starting five that got UConn to a Final Four last season had all graduated). A lot of people would be clamoring for this to be a top 10 squad, but one could say a number of the same things about it that you said about Tennssee.

Tennessee will have its preseason advocates due to the number of high school AAs on the team. They just have more talent than most. Personally, I'm skeptical that the LVs have the experience, leadership, player development, accountability, and S&C right now. They didn't have it last year, certainly.

Fortunately for them, they have the opportunity to play the schedule you mentioned above and prove the doubters wrong...or right.
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I am partial to CD, but the situation would be the same. Play
er wise, I could not disagree more. Lewis is on the Wade preaeason list. She is a better player than anyone on this TN roster. Stokea is also a much better player than their returning post. Jefferson vs Massingale is a wash to me. I would take Stewart and Tuck over anyone inn the current TM roster.

The five players you mentioned could be a top ten team. But I am not convinced that TN is better rhan 20. Or will be by the end of this year. I know....you agree you devil....lol.
 
vowelguy said:
They came in 3rd place in the SEC last year, earning a NCAA #4 seed. They return 4 starters.
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Let's say they were awarded a 4 seed. They had an RPI of 25, which meant they were one of the most over-rated in the Tournament, and promptly proved my point by losing in the first round to a 13 seed.

Still I like Andy, (although I'd like him better if he returned my emails), and a returning class of four starters, plus incoming players Marjorie and Merritt and others means they will have the talent to be top 20.
 
Phil said:
Let's say they were awarded a 4 seed. They had an RPI of 25, which meant they were one of the most over-rated in the Tournament, and promptly proved my point by losing in the first round to a 13 seed.

Still I like Andy, (although I'd like him better if he returned my emails), and a returning class of four starters, plus incoming players Marjorie and Merritt and others means they will have the talent to be top 20.
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I don't like him - just because he thought Kelly wasn't a high caliber player. :)
 
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Phil said:
Let's say they were awarded a 4 seed. They had an RPI of 25, which meant they were one of the most over-rated in the Tournament,
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Your premise assumes that the RPI is perfectly correlated with the strength of the teams. It is not. Nor is it designed to be.

False argument.
 
vowelguy said:
Steph has potential to be the 2nd best center, but she did not have a great season last year.
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No, she did not have a great season, but she had a very good season last year, averaging 10.4 points and 6.0 rebounds in 23.9 minutes per game. She also did not foul out of a single game last year (a very important statistic, given UConn's lack of depth at the interior positions last season). As an aside, she only committed 70 fouls in 38 games played.

Now, I believe her minutes would have been even higher had she made the strides in conditioning that she did this past offseason (though she did make some strides in that area between her freshman and sophomore seasons). The stats (which are good overall and are great on a per-minute basis of measuring production) would have been that much higher if she had played the 29-33 minutes per game that Hartley, Hayes, Faris, and KML played (and this is a result of conditioning that she clearly worked on this past offseason).
 
Regarding Georgia - Andy some how always seems to fall short, I don't get it exactly.

Playing against Rutgers - especially early - won't measure much. Georgia has long been a thorn in RU's side, our only victory I think we had since the 2000 NCAA Regional was a JimmyV game a few years ago where Andy was so sick on the sideline (flu) that they were practically un-coached. I just don't think we have matched up well when we have played.
 
KnightBridgeAZ said:
Regarding Georgia - Andy some how always seems to fall short, I don't get it exactly.

Playing against Rutgers - especially early - won't measure much. Georgia has long been a thorn in RU's side, our only victory I think we had since the 2000 NCAA Regional was a JimmyV game a few years ago where Andy was so sick on the sideline (flu) that they were practically un-coached. I just don't think we have matched up well when we have played.
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Looking at their roster it seems we'll have quite the size advantage. So hopefully we'll be able to take advantage of that.
 
CamrnCrz1974 said:
No, she did not have a great season, but she had a very good season last year, averaging 10.4 points and 6.0 rebounds in 23.9 minutes per game. She also did not foul out of a single game last year (a very important statistic, given UConn's lack of depth at the interior positions last season). As an aside, she only committed 70 fouls in 38 games played.

Now, I believe her minutes would have been even higher had she made the strides in conditioning that she did this past offseason (though she did make some strides in that area between her freshman and sophomore seasons). The stats (which are good overall and are great on a per-minute basis of measuring production) would have been that much higher if she had played the 29-33 minutes per game that Hartley, Hayes, Faris, and KML played (and this is a result of conditioning that she clearly worked on this past offseason).
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Great point Cam. And to put it in numbers, it would be close to 25% more for every stat.

That means over 32 minutes, she would have averaged 14 points and 8 rebounds per game.

She had spurts of greatness last year, especially against ND and I think this is her big jump year considering her apparent newfound conditioning and being more of a leader.
 
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Coler said:
Looking at their roster it seems we'll have quite the size advantage. So hopefully we'll be able to take advantage of that.
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GO RU!!! Beat the SEC this year!!!!
 
wire chief said:
How do they leave off the 2nd best center in all of college bball?
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Because she is probably, at best, third best right now. It is yet to be seen how well our center plays with her toned, slimmed down body.
 
MilfordHusky said:
Lots of very interesting subplots. The main plot: Can anyone beat Baylor, or will they push the winning streak to 80 or so?
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What helps Baylor is that they play defense. There will be nights when the offense is not firing aand the defesne will have to keep it close. Close games usually go to the better team with the best player on the floor.
 
VAUConnFan said:
What helps Baylor is that they play defense. There will be nights when the offense is not firing aand the defesne will have to keep it close. Close games usually go to the better team with the best player on the floor.
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I agree. UConn is the best defensive team in WCBB.
 
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vowelguy said:
Your premise assumes that the RPI is perfectly correlated with the strength of the teams. It is not. Nor is it designed to be.

False argument.
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I agree it is imperfect. I've been singing that tune for years. But it is a measure, and it was handy. FTR, I think Georgia is aperfect example of why it is flawed. IIRC, theri schedule was one I looked at that seemed designed to bolster their RPI, so if anything #25 overstates their strength.
 
Phil said:
I agree it is imperfect. I've been singing that tune for years. But it is a measure, and it was handy. FTR, I think Georgia is aperfect example of why it is flawed. IIRC, theri schedule was one I looked at that seemed designed to bolster their RPI, so if anything #25 overstates their strength.
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The RPI is not a power rating. Using it as such is incorrect. Trying to draw inferences on that basis is meaningless.
 
vowelguy said:
The RPI is not a power rating. Using it as such is incorrect. Trying to draw inferences on that basis is meaningless.
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No, it isn't.

This isn't a peer-reviewed statistical paper, it is a fan forum. I acknowledged the deficiencies of the RPI, I've written on then at length. Lighten up.
 
Saying the RPI has deficiencies as a power rating is like saying a Honda Accord has deficiencies as a flying machine. Neither are designed for that function, so why attempt to use them in that way?
 
vowelguy said:
Saying the RPI has deficiencies as a power rating is like saying a Honda Accord has deficiencies as a flying machine. Neither are designed for that function, so why attempt to use them in that way?
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What would you like to use the RPI for? What would you like to use a true power rating for?

As a statistical measure, RPI places a team on a continuum. It can be manipulated - Rutgers and UConn have both taken advantage, intentionally or not, of its manipulability, although UConn less so as time has gone on. There have been articles written about how to schedule to favor your RPI (I have one from over 12 years ago written by a well known coach).

I agree with Phil re: Georgia, assuming his factual statements are correct (and I don't have time to check them). They probably had an inflated RPI and a seed inconsistent with their RPI (and there are studies out there about the correlation between seed and RPI, see Rutgers' own Beknighted each Spring).

Arguing about the true worth of the RPI is useless, it exists and is what it is.
 
I'm quite the proponent of Massey and Sagarin myself. Both had Georgia in the 29-33 range by season's end.
 
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