Let's talk punt returns

[jdb50]

HS running backs Summers and McAllister are 2 players I would name. Robert McClain a former RB was given this job. We didn't return punts because BD did not try to. Against Marshall in the second half we did not rush the punter and our second level defenders let the Marshall players run right by them. Didn't even try and make contact to slow them down. So the returner has to call for a fair catch. I don't care how good a future returner is if we don't block he won't have a chance. If BD had no faith in Vitale to hold onto the ball during a return and wanted him to just focus on making the catch, or didn't want us getting block in the back or holding penalties so be it. Last place nationally is tough to justify.

 

[whaler11]

Every college team has punt returners and many have multiple punt returners. They are not that hard to find, many skill guys did it in high school. Our problem isn't that we can't find a guy. Our problem is returning punts is not a priority for Diaco. He doesn't want fumbles. That is his obvious priority. He does this at the expense of having a productive return game. It's a choice made by the HC.

Yawn. They cycled through some guys and landed on a walk-on who could barely catch the ball.

I guess you can just assume they are complete idiots - but it might just be a bit more nuanced than that.

 

[TheDoggPound]

Thomas
Lemelle
Skanes
Vickers
Herring
McAllister

That's what we're working with.

 

[Palatine]

Yawn. They cycled through some guys and landed on a walk-on who could barely catch the ball.

I guess you can just assume they are complete idiots - but it might just be a bit more nuanced than that.

Brilliant. You were in practice and saw them cycle through guys? Just asking.

 

[whaler11]

Brilliant. You were in practice and saw them cycle through guys? Just asking.

True it's an assumption if they gave the job to walk on other guys got their chance.

Personally I support not using a Summers or Newsome or Thomas in the role because they are too valuable from scrimmage.

I guess I could go with your assumption they are morons and have no idea what they are doing - but like I pointed out we've been down this road before and that assumption proved to be about as wrong as could be. If we were on the old site I could send you all the delightful PMs I had full of comments just like yours in this thread that all proved to be hilariously incorrect.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

True it's an assumption if they gave the job to walk on other guys got their chance.

Personally I support not using a Summers or Newsome or Thomas in the role because they are too valuable from scrimmage.

I guess I could go with your assumption they are morons and have no idea what they are doing - but like I pointed out we've been down this road before and that assumption proved to be about as wrong as could be. If we were on the old site I could send you all the delightful PMs I had full of comments just like yours in this thread that all proved to be hilariously incorrect.

My life on the BY has come full circle. I've gone from being skewered on here for blasting some of Diaco's decisions last year to being one of his biggest defenders this year.

The notion that the guy is a total and complete idiot and has not given every able bodied kid on the roster a shot to return punts is just so mind numbingly dumb I don't know how to respond to it. I hate the fact that we have Newsome returning KO's, never mind punts.

 

[Nostical]

Vitale was pretty clear that he had the choice on the field to either make a catch or not, and if making the catch, whether or not to fair catch it.

The coach sets the strategy. Even Nick Williams let punts drop or fair caught them at the command of the coaches.

 

[RMS25CT]

@Palatine , does have a point. On a team with 105 players, there isn't a single one he can trust returning punts? I get the OP is the one the board loves to hate but his overall point is a good one. Your playing bend but don't break defense and conservative offense. A punt return once a while would be nice to possibly give our bend but dont' break offense a better chance at points. Diaco does seem to be terrified of turnovers to the point of paralysis sometimes. I'm hopeful that he is improving the team in increments and soon this will be fixed as well.

Its not even about who the returner is. They haven't set up for a return all year. There was generally no blocking scheme, no wall set up. They blocked for 1-2 seconds at the line and that was it. It didn't matter who was back there. It appears that the return man was told to field the punt with a fair catch. Period.

 

[noeynox]

Its not even about who the returner is. They haven't set up for a return all year. There was generally no blocking scheme, no wall set up. They blocked for 1-2 seconds at the line and that was it. It didn't matter who was back there. It appears that the return man was told to field the punt with a fair catch. Period.

You would have to be sitting in the stands with your eyes closed not to see this. There was zero effort to set up returns. That doesn't mean we have a good returner on the roster but there was no effort made in GAMES to find,out.

 

[UCMB88]

Its not even about who the returner is. They haven't set up for a return all year. There was generally no blocking scheme, no wall set up. They blocked for 1-2 seconds at the line and that was it. It didn't matter who was back there. It appears that the return man was told to field the punt with a fair catch. Period.

Noeynox is dead on! Go back and watch tape of our punt returns. There is literally no blocking scheme in place to set up a return. Watch the Marshall game, we have a second tier of three players about 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Not sure what their job is as they literally just stand there and watch Marshall players run past them at full speed. It all starts with blocking!!

 

[CTMike]

Noeynox is dead on! Go back and watch tape of our punt returns. There is literally no blocking scheme in place to set up a return. Watch the Marshall game, we have a second tier of three players about 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Not sure what their job is as they literally just stand there and watch Marshall players run past them at full speed. It all starts with blocking!!

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

 

[Carl Spackler]

Its not even about who the returner is. They haven't set up for a return all year. There was generally no blocking scheme, no wall set up. They blocked for 1-2 seconds at the line and that was it. It didn't matter who was back there. It appears that the return man was told to field the punt with a fair catch. Period.

agreed, that's what it looks like. But here's the thing - Vitale was on the weekly radio program a few weeks ago with Joe D. He was specifically asked about his decision making on the field when it comes to fielding punts and he was very specific about his progression. Unless he was told to lie on the radio, he said he's got the choice to return a punt on every kick. He's using visual skills and instinct to determine if he should fair catch or return a kick or not. He's got cues he's using to determine that. The fact that he's seeing people running at him in his peripheral vision while focusing on the ball, was a big part of it. As it always should be. Is it any wonder he's fair catching everything if we're not blocking?

Here's the thing though too - if not for fair catches - we most likely don't win the game in New Orleans. HUGE part of that game. So the punt return game contributed hugely, to at least one win this season in squeezing out the bowl game.

DIaco? I wanted to wring this guy's neck last year with his approach, and the only reason he can rebuild the way he's going about it UCONN is because we don't have the fan and alumni base to put up enough of an uproar based on what he did last season. But he's got a plan and it's working. Sometimes when people with good plans and understanding and leadership do things, good things happen by accident. I have no idea if there is a plan for a punt game or not - but I'll tell you this - based on what I heard that kid say on the radio, there is potential for good things to happen as we recruit back up to speed with numbers and talent, and start to play every detail of the game - including punt returns.

Given the way that Vitale developed over the season, and that we get I think another year out of him, and that other players have got to be practicing the same way - when we actually do start blocking, and there aren't people running down on him (or anyone else) in their field of vision, they'll be well practiced in actually making the catch and securing the ball, before starting to run.

That's an important part of the punt return don't ya think? Making the catch and securing the ball? Because chances are you're going to get hit hard, quick, if you don't make the first guy miss.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

Bingo.

 

[Carl Spackler]

[

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

I seem to recall a problem with blocking on PAT's at some point. That's when the guys are lined up in right in front of you, and everybody moves together off the snap - never mind setting up in a full field while running full speed.

 

[noeynox]

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

Mike your a great poster, but UCF was horrendous this year and the managed 200 yds in punt return yardage this year. You can't convince me our talent and depth is that much worse than theirs that the we can only muster 2yds by comparison.

I think @Carl Spackler nailed it. Diaco took this year to fundamentally practice securing punt returns. My guess is next year you will start seeing returns.

I get we are lacking depth, but the roster is not entirely constructed of 175 lb walkons either. I think it has more to do with approach than anything else.

 

[Confident Carl]

Do we have anybody on our roster or coming in that can return punts? As constructed, none of our current players could do it.. Instead of having punt returners we had designated fair catchers.. Does that make sense? When the goal of a football team to be complete is to be able to perform on offense, defense and on special teams? I know we're still only going into year 3, but do we have anybody (somebody) we can look towards who could potentially provide that ability to at least having opposing teams fear us with the ability to take it to the house? Just sayin... A designated faircatcher? huh???

Quayvon Skanes looks like a candidate.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Mike your a great poster, but UCF was horrendous this year and the managed 200 yds in punt return yardage this year. You can't convince me our talent and depth is that much worse than theirs that the we can only muster 2yds by comparison.

I think @Carl Spackler nailed it. Diaco took this year to fundamentally practice securing punt returns. My guess is next year you will start seeing returns.

I get we are lacking depth, but the roster is not entirely constructed of 175 lb walkons either. I think it has more to do with approach than anything else.

They without a doubt did not set up for returns this year. My guess, because I don't think Diaco is completely and utterly brain dead, is that we tried to set up returns in practice and it was a disaster. Do people really think that Diaco just took a pass on special teams this year? We couldn't block for extra points for crying out loud. Yes, the roster was that bad.

 

[CTMike]

I think the only rational hope is that this year was another foundational / development year and that next year we've reached basic proficiency and can resume normal returns.

 

[noeynox]

They without a doubt did not set up for returns this year. My guess, because I don't think Diaco is completely and utterly brain dead, is that we tried to set up returns in practice and it was a disaster. Do people really think that Diaco just took a pass on special teams this year? We couldn't block for extra points for crying out loud. Yes, the roster was that bad.

No, I don't think he was brain dead. Just saying it was choice to totally disregard punt returns. Even a much worse roster like the one at ucf could muster some semblance of a return game.

Like I said I believe Spackler nailed it, it was a developmental choice. Perhaps to limit turnovers. You don't need as many big OL types for punt returns like you need for PATs. You need more LB types for punt returns so the 2 comparisons are not apples to apples.

 

[Palatine]

Not directed at you - but what on earth would make anyone think that we have enough depth to block successfully on specials when we can barely block on offense?

Because virtually every other college team does it. Or, at least, attempts it.

 

[Carl Spackler]

They without a doubt did not set up for returns this year. My guess, because I don't think Diaco is completely and utterly brain dead, is that we tried to set up returns in practice and it was a disaster. Do people really think that Diaco just took a pass on special teams this year? We couldn't block for extra points for crying out loud. Yes, the roster was that bad.

Interesting questions and points. There is only so much time that players and coaches have per week to be in contact and practice and it's highly regulated - if you're going to follow rules.

It's quite reasonable and logical to conclude that the amount of practice time and practice periods dedicated to practicing punt returns as an 11 man unit was minimized in an effort to focus more time on something else. Why that decision would have been made is up for speculation, and if that was the case, whether or not it will change next season is a good question.

 

[Carl Spackler]

No, I don't think he was brain dead. Just saying it was choice to totally disregard punt returns. Even a much worse roster like the one at ucf could muster some semblance of a return game.

Like I said I believe Spackler nailed it, it was a developmental choice. Perhaps to limit turnovers. You don't need as many big OL types for punt returns like you need for PATs. You need more LB types for punt returns so the 2 comparisons are not apples to apples.

Just to be clear, I did write that I have no idea if it was planned, or if it happened by accident, but I do think that we'll have players that are actually better prepared to actually return kicks, IF we set up decent blocking on return units - based on the way things happened this season - and my interpretation comes just from listening to our actual punt returner talk.

 

[Palatine]

Interesting questions and points. There is only so much time that players and coaches have per week to be in contact and practice and it's highly regulated - if you're going to follow rules.

It's quite reasonable and logical to conclude that the amount of practice time and practice periods dedicated to practicing punt returns as an 11 man unit was minimized in an effort to focus more time on something else. Why that decision would have been made is up for speculation, and if that was the case, whether or not it will change next season is a good question.

Once again, other college teams are able to work punt return drills into their practice week. That includes lower levels of college football like DII and DIII who have less time to practice.

Reading this thread you would think the Huskies are a nonathletic group of mental deficients that are not up to the task of blocking for punt returns. Which I do not believe is the case. I agree this is a choice by Diaco. But I find it a strange one.

I wish one of the media covering the team would ask Bob about this, but that's probably asking too much.

 

[hardcorehusky]

If you win two of the three phases - you can win games. SO that means if you win with defense and special teams, you can have a UCONN like offense and win close games. Not shootouts, but low scoring games.
Here is why I think Diaco went from not trying to win games in 14 to moderately trying to win games in 15.
In 14, Diaco claims he was building infrastructure and a way of living.
In 15, Diaco relied on his defense and improved on the offense - the QB was better(not Cochran), and we moved the ball better but could not finish off drives. The special teams started off abysmally and ultimately, we could kick extra points and field goals.
But here is why it is moderately, we don't try to block punts and we don't return punts. IF we actually set up blocks for punts and got let's say 10 yards every 4 th kick, that could translate in a shorter field and maybe at least an extra field goal attempt or even a touchdown as opposed to fg. My point is winning the game of field position is not just having your punter average 37 yards a kick with the return factored in. You have to help with punt return yardage, coverage, etc.

Randy Edsall, except for the Orlovsky years, relied on defense and special teams and look what he was able to accomplish. We couldn't throw the ball consistently, but we could run and we could defend and we had killer special teams.

I watched Poe from Army- who is slow, return a kick against Navy for 45-50 yards because the blocking was executed perfectly. I don't buy we don't have talent - we might not have 5* Madden types who can create on their own, but we do have athletes who can (as Hank Stram used to say) matriculate up the field.

In 16, Diaco better account for punt returns, because some of the close games can be turned by a little better field position. If he wants to win 8 games plus and a title, we have to be at least competant in all 3 phases. Rant over.

 

[J187Money]

I wish one of the media covering the team would ask Bob about this, but that's probably asking too much.

I can at least agree with Palatine on something.