Let's Talk Iowa State...

[Leebo]

It's as simple as "someone posts a statistic that favors their team, I'll post one that favors my team or a statement that presumably negates their stat"

The thing is, it doesn't really matter what pace they normally play and how many points they scored in the past because of that fact. Both teams will get the same number of possessions (within 1 anyway) when they play each other.

 

[caw]

Fair enough. We've been there. In 2009 we were the best team in the country, dammit, and then Jerome Dyson went down for the season. Thankfully, we were a deep enough team, and it happened early enough, that we somewhat recovered, and made the Final Four. But I still firmly beleive we win the whole thing with him.

I think, without Niang, your team's ceiling is the Elite 8. Without him, you can still beat UConn, because we don't exploit the interior. That changes when you're going against Virginia or MSU.

UConn has been inconsistent on offense enough where I don't quite know what their ceiling is yet.

UConn was one of the top two teams with Dyson (and sticks). UNC would have still been a load. MSU in Detroit would have still been very tough also, though I do think UConn would have had a much better chance to win with Dyson. It also helped that Dyson was probably only UConns 3rd most important player that year, at best. AJ and Thabeet were the keys to the offense and defense. It could also be argued Adrien and Sticks were just as important as Dyson.

I don't think ISU was a very serious contender even with Niang. I could be wrong but I think MSU or UVA would still be favored, not to mention whoever is in the final four/NC. They would have had a better shot but it still would have only been slim at best. Heck maybe Kane goes Melo/Kemba for the rest of the year and they win it all now, the odds wouldn't be in their favor and only improve slightly with Niang. Not to knock ISU, they are a very good squad, in another yet the same squad may have much higher odds. This is a tough/deep year.

 

[tazclone]

I agree

The loss of Niang cannot be understated. He has been a very major part in Iowa State's success this season. I wouldn't say fans have been dismissive but rather a little in denial... I stated in a previous post anytime a team needs 3 players to step and and replace 1 player's output, it's never a good thing.

I agree. The question is as and ISU fan do you think Morris, Long and Hogue can do what they did last game against UConn. I think we have all seen flashes of brilliance from Morris and are excited for him to be the full time PG next year. Long is Long. He is clutch and every time Hogue is forgotten about he comes through with a big game.
Again, not saying that they will come through but as a Cyclone fan that has watched those three all year, I have confidence in them

 

[tazclone]

The thing is, it doesn't really matter what pace they normally play and how many points they scored in the past because of that fact. Both teams will get the same number of possessions (within 1 anyway) when they play each other.

So what are points per possession for each team on both sides of the ball?

We should just take those and multiply it by say....63 ppossesions and call it a game

 

[Onions]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...502569/q-a-iowa-state-head-coach-fred-hoiberg

A nice interview with Fred. Pretty cool that Him and Ollie are close and sit with each other alot at recruiting events.

Good interview. You might enjoy these 2 radio interviews conducted by Mike Francessa on WFAN in NY.

Kevin Ollie :
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/?podcas...=Mike+Francesa&station_id=91&tag=&dcid=CBS.NY

Fred Hoiberg:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/?podcas...=Mike+Francesa&station_id=91&tag=&dcid=CBS.NY

 

[BlueMAB]

Well, I never referred to you as a mid major but you felt the need to insult. And in all fairness, you were in the Big East when facing the other teams and the Big East was definitely not a mid major.

I can guarantee the ISU fanbase does not view UConn as a mid major. Sarcasm is hard to get on a computer screen. I guess I thought reading comprehension would be better at a fine academic institution Like UConn. That was sarcasm if you didn't catch it. I am still trying to find where anyone has said ISU is as good without Niang. I just haven't seen that anywhere. The question is how far do they drop without Niang. In the only example we have to date....they didn't drop too far. I realize a 7 seed in UConn is better than a 6 seed than UNC. Again sarcasm. I realize that this is a completely different matchup. However, I did not take into the account the effect Jim Calhoun's National Championships will have on this game. More sarcasm. so forgive me for thinking that ISU can/will hang with UConn. It was ignant. I guess I is the moron you claimed I is. I will git back to noodling and eating little debbies.

You took a comment I made that had nothing to do with the game and made it about the game. Twice now. You also ignored this

"Almost everyone here realizes ISU is a very good team that will be very difficult to beat.

Like you guys, we believe we can win. Crazy huh?"

You can play dumb or admit to being an a $$ h 0 l 3. It's up to you. I never said you shouldn't be confident. You're the higher seed and the Big 12 champs with a great coach, and a lot of talent. Of course you should be confident.

 

[Leebo]

So what are points per possession for each team on both sides of the ball?

We should just take those and multiply it by say....63 ppossesions and call it a game

I don't mean it in the sense of "it doesn't matter, we don't need to play the game." I just mean that having a higher ppg stat because of having more possessions doesn't matter when the possessions will be equal.

 

[MileHighFish]

I agree
I agree. The question is as and ISU fan do you think Morris, Long and Hogue can do what they did last game against UConn. I think we have all seen flashes of brilliance from Morris and are excited for him to be the full time PG next year. Long is Long. He is clutch and every time Hogue is forgotten about he comes through with a big game.
Again, not saying that they will come through but as a Cyclone fan that has watched those three all year, I have confidence in them

I think Edozie and Hogue are going to be the guys that need to step up the most tomorrow. If those two can get some productivity down low and force the UConn defense to adjust and collapse, it will open up the parameter for some open looks. If this happens and I ISU is able to capitalize with some 3's, it will free up the inside a bit. The two go hand in hand

I believe the UConn defense is underrated and will be one of the toughest tests the Cyclones have faced all season.

 

[tzznandrew]

UConn was one of the top two teams with Dyson (and sticks). UNC would have still been a load. MSU in Detroit would have still been very tough also, though I do think UConn would have had a much better chance to win with Dyson. It also helped that Dyson was probably only UConns 3rd most important player that year, at best. AJ and Thabeet were the keys to the offense and defense. It could also be argued Adrien and Sticks were just as important as Dyson.

I don't think ISU was a very serious contender even with Niang. I could be wrong but I think MSU or UVA would still be favored, not to mention whoever is in the final four/NC. They would have had a better shot but it still would have only been slim at best. Heck maybe Kane goes Melo/Kemba for the rest of the year and they win it all now, the odds wouldn't be in their favor and only improve slightly with Niang. Not to knock ISU, they are a very good squad, in another yet the same squad may have much higher odds. This is a tough/deep year.

We got the 4th overall number 1 seed there. Lousiville got the 1st overall 1 seed. We destroyed Louisville with a full team. I presume we'd have gotten a different bracket, and, if not the #1 overall seed (meaning we'd play MSU somewhere other than Detroit) at least on the other side where, if we did play them, it would have been for the title.

 

[caw]

We got the 4th overall number 1 seed there. Lousiville got the 1st overall 1 seed. We destroyed Louisville with a full team. I presume we'd have gotten a different bracket, and, if not the #1 overall seed (meaning we'd play MSU somewhere other than Detroit) at least on the other side where, if we did play them, it would have been for the title.

That's true. Could have had MSU in the elite eight. Or UNC in the final four (not the NC). Best would have been getting Nova in the final four and UNC in the NC. But either way UNC was very good. Just one of the best offensive teams recently. Of course UConn was a devastating defensive unit when healthy. UConn had 5 plus defenders in Walker, Dyson, Sticks, Adrien and Thabeet. AJ was solid defensively and Austrie was also solid defensively as the fourth guard. Offensively not the greatest, definitely a very methodical offensive team with a great bailout guy in AJ and very good on the glass. I loved watching that team pressure on defense when Dyson was healthy.

 

[intlzncster]

You can play dumb or admit to being an a h 0 l 3. It's up to you. I never said you shouldn't be confident. You're the higher seed and the Big 12 champs with a great coach, and a lot of talent. Of course you should be confident.

That's an enormous amount of work to avoid the profanity filter.

 

[Tenspro2002]

UConn was one of the top two teams with Dyson (and sticks). UNC would have still been a load. MSU in Detroit would have still been very tough also, though I do think UConn would have had a much better chance to win with Dyson. It also helped that Dyson was probably only UConns 3rd most important player that year, at best. AJ and Thabeet were the keys to the offense and defense. It could also be argued Adrien and Sticks were just as important as Dyson.

Dyson wasn't the key to our team, like you correctly point out. But I do think he could have been the difference between losing to, and beating, Michigan State..

A lot of people forget that Kemba was absolutely atrocious in that Final Four game (1-5 from the field, 3-9 from the line, 4 turnovers, 4 fouls). I don't want to dredge up bad memories, but this is just one example: within a two minute stretch at the end of the first half, Kemba missed two free throws, committed a turnover, and fouled Korie Lucious on a 3, turning a 29-27 lead into a 33-29 deficit.

With Dyson available, we can leave Kemba on the bench. Also, Craig Austrie doesn't end up playing a generally unproductive 37(!) minutes.

 

[tzznandrew]

That's true. Could have had MSU in the elite eight. Or UNC in the final four (not the NC). Best would have been getting Nova in the final four and UNC in the NC. But either way UNC was very good. Just one of the best offensive teams recently. Of course UConn was a devastating defensive unit when healthy. UConn had 5 plus defenders in Walker, Dyson, Sticks, Adrien and Thabeet. AJ was solid defensively and Austrie was also solid defensively as the fourth guard. Offensively not the greatest, definitely a very methodical offensive team with a great bailout guy in AJ and very good on the glass. I loved watching that team pressure on defense when Dyson was healthy.

With Dyson, though, the offense worked quite well. Much less methodical. They averaged 78 ppg before Dyson went down. While they technically averaged more after (79.8), that's because of the 6OT game, and a game against a 16 seed. If you take those two games out, they were averaging 73.8...a 4 point per game drop.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

The biggest contributions we go from Dyson (and what we missed most when he was gone) was his on ball defense. He was fearless, as willing to defend the entire court as anyone we ever had and as good a defender from the guard position as we had since Ricky Moore graduated. We would have been able to give UNC a scare (at a minimum) if he had remained healthy.

 

[intlzncster]

The biggest contributions we go from Dyson (and what we missed most when he was gone) was his on ball defense. He was fearless, as willing to defend the entire court as anyone we ever had and as good a defender from the guard position as we had since Ricky Moore graduated. We would have been able to give UNC a scare (at a minimum) if he had remained healthy.

Not only that, but he could get to the rim as well as any player I remember at UCONN. He was a bull in that regard.

 

[tzznandrew]

The biggest contributions we go from Dyson (and what we missed most when he was gone) was his on ball defense. He was fearless, as willing to defend the entire court as anyone we ever had and as good a defender from the guard position as we had since Ricky Moore graduated. We would have been able to give UNC a scare (at a minimum) if he had remained healthy.

He was also averaging 13 pts, 4 rbs, 3 assists and was having his best 3pt shooting year. The extra perimeter firepower, and his ability to drive into the lane (which AJ struggled at, but Kemba could do) would have proved quite good.

I think, had we gotten to UNC, we would have caused fits for them on the offensive and defensive end. Psycho T would have struggled to get his shots off in the post.

 

[caw]

Dyson wasn't the key to our team, like you correctly point out. But I do think he could have been the difference between losing to, and beating, Michigan State..

A lot of people forget that Kemba was absolutely atrocious in that Final Four game (1-5 from the field, 3-9 from the line, 4 turnovers, 4 fouls). I don't want to dredge up bad memories, but this is just one example: within a two minute stretch at the end of the first half, Kemba missed two free throws, committed a turnover, and fouled Korie Lucious on a 3, turning a 29-27 lead into a 33-29 deficit.

With Dyson available, we can leave Kemba on the bench. Also, Craig Austrie doesn't end up playing a generally unproductive 37(!) minutes.

I agree. He would have helped immensely against MSU.

With Dyson, though, the offense worked quite well. Much less methodical. They averaged 78 ppg before Dyson went down. While they technically averaged more after (79.8), that's because of the 6OT game, and a game against a 16 seed. If you take those two games out, they were averaging 73.8...a 4 point per game drop.

How many OOC teams did they beat with Dyson, teams thy would have been a 14 seed at best if they had won their tournament. The offense was still stagnant with Dyson. The biggest thing he did for the offense that year was help create turnovers. I guess I wasn't clear, I meant half court offense.

 

[tzznandrew]

How many OOC teams did they beat with Dyson, teams thy would have been a 14 seed at best if they had won their tournament. The offense was still stagnant with Dyson. The biggest thing he did for the offense that year was help create turnovers. I guess I wasn't clear, I meant half court offense.

Whelp, I went back and eliminated all teams with a KenPom rating under 150, and the team averaged roughly as much before and after. Although, to be fair, I don't pay for KenPom, so I can't see if the pace of the game changed in any meaningful way.

 

[tazclone]

I don't mean it in the sense of "it doesn't matter, we don't need to play the game." I just mean that having a higher ppg stat because of having more possessions doesn't matter when the possessions will be equal.

Smiley face man.... I was kidding. I appreciate the statistical side of it

 

[Hume]

I am curious about your shooting percentage. If I understand your fast pacing is partially due to fast breaks in addition to your coaches philosophy of taking the first good shot. How many fast break baskets does your team average a game and how does that affect your shooting numbers. I see overall you shoot .027% better then us overall, but shoot .034% lower from three and .067% less from the free throw line. I know your coach discourages mid range shots so is that the reason you feel your overall shot percentage is better, or is it your number of fast breaks, or just your ability to push the ball inside?

 

[SauceMonkey]

I am curious about your shooting percentage. If I understand your fast pacing is partially due to fast breaks in addition to your coaches philosophy of taking the first good shot. How many fast break baskets does your team average a game and how does that affect your shooting numbers. I see overall you shoot .027% better then us overall, but shoot .034% lower from three and .067% less from the free throw line. I know your coach discourages mid range shots so is that the reason you feel your overall shot percentage is better, or is it your number of fast breaks, or just your ability to push the ball inside?

Ironic due to their size, but the bulk of ISU's offense comes from the paint with a 50/30 split between 2s and 3s (20% other). Of that paint point they tend to come in three varieties; driving is the biggest percentage, then back to the basket, then jumpers. They don't hesitate at all to get the ball down the court and get a lot of points on layups before teams can set up their D. Or, if the D sets up in the paint while they come down they'll stop and drop a three before someone gets out to meet them. This is almost all done with Kane/Ejim and they do a really good job of wearing out big guys by making them go paint to paint fast. The standard play is whoever the offensive is running through due to a match up will drive the lane and dish it off as soon as the double leaves someone in the paint wide open. (this is why they lead the nation in assists). Hogue tends to be a big beneficiary of this because his defender will typically leave to grab someone else and he sneaks in under the radar. Niang was the king of the back to the basket with his old man game, so they'll lose most of this aspect with him out, but Ejim does it really well too. They are in no way as good, but both Ejim and Hogue play a lot like Barkley. They play bigger than they are due to really good positioning and a sizable "paint butt". Both of them average over 8 rebounds a game at 6-6.

They won't really hurl up a three unless it is wide open, typically after someone's defender sneaks into the paint. They'll put Ejim out on the three point line and post up Kane to invert it, they used to do that a lot with Niang. As soon as the bigger defender drifts in, the ball would go out to Ejim or Niang for a three.

If they can't get the easy points before the defense sets, they'll become very deliberate to make sure they take the first open shot. They can get sloppy though if the D sets and they can't drive, especially Kane. Then they'll get forced into jumpers and threes, which can get ugly quick if they can't hit. It rarely rattles them if they can't though.