Legal Advice on a new house

[Pgh2Storrs]

I apologize for the OT thread, but I’m a first time home owner in need of some advice…

My wife and I closed on the house on 6/4 and immediately got pulled into a dispute between the previous owner and the neighbor.

There’s a retaining wall on one side of the backyard that the neighbor has been complaining about for years and, when they saw the home was for sale, he wrote letters to the previous owners and the realtors selling the property stating that it needed to be fixed and/or disclosed in the sale that the wall was in violation of city code. In addition to the letters, he opened a case with the city of Pittsburgh in which they cited the previous owners for the wall being in disrepair and pieces laying in his yard. The case was closed prior to closing, but the wall was never fixed. The inspector closed the case because neither the previous owner nor the neighbor gave them permission to be on their property to view the wall so they viewed it from the street and closed the case based upon there being no visible pieces laying in his yard but did not inspect the actual condition of the wall. We were given a copy of the case closure prior to closing on the house but within the Seller’s disclosure form, nothing was noted about the wall being an issue or any violations.

The neighbor showed up while we were painting last weekend to complain about the wall and subsequently called the city to inquire why the case was closed. We met with the inspectors this week at which point they agreed that the wall had not been adequately repaired but since they closed the previous case, any new citations would be in our name since we now own the property. The neighbor realizes this is screwing us, but asked that the case be reopened in an effort to try to pressure the previous owners.

As far as things going in our favor, we have the letters the neighbor wrote to the previous owner/realtors asking that the wall be fixed/disclosed prior to sale, a letter from the previous owners to the neighbor stating that money would be allocated during closing to fix the wall (there was no money/mention of this), the Seller’s disclosure where there was no mention of any issue, and the city inspectors who stated they would testify in our favor if we chose to pursue civil action.

Our real estate agent has reached out to the seller’s agent with this information but we have yet to hear back. Assuming they refuse to address this, I wanted to get opinions as to if it is worth it to pursue a civil case against the previous owners?

 

[HuskyFich]

yeah do this first before

this


You don’t want to be adversarial with a brand new neighbor with whom you will sharing a quarter acre for years and years. Try to meet them in the middle and if there’s pushback they chose to make things adversarial. Then you say nah let’s let a judge sort it out

You don’t want to be adversarial with a brand new neighbor, but you will let your new neighbor be adversarial with you? I agree you should try to come to a resolution outside of court, but you don’t owe your neighbor s* and I’m not dropping a single dollar unless a judge tells me to.

 

[Dove]

View attachment 68104

That’s from above the wall earlier this week

I work in land use. What the heck is being "retained?"

In CT, no zoning permits are required for most retaining walls. Freestanding, yes, if over a certain height. But a building permit is required for retaining walls over 3 feet. There needs to be drainage behind the wall.

Your photo looks like a weird hardscape feature. Is there a purpose?

EDIT: I just noticed the pic was sideways ( I'm on phone).

Still can't imagine what it violated. It appears to be a grade change separator.

 

[Dogdeacon]

1. You should read the final contract for sale of the house, if it says "as-is" you have zero chance of getting the former owner to pay anything, to accept any $ or legal liability. And practically speaking even if you have a case given that it wasn't a closing condition ($ reserved or repair required) and they have literally moved on it'll likely cost you just as much as you spend on legal to try and bleed $ from the previous owner who has already evidenced resistance to fixing the problem.

2. That wall is an eyesore and possibly dangerous for kids/pets with all the cinder-block holes. I think it'll enhance your value, liability and aesthetics to fix it so why not just do that rather than spend legal $ chasing the former owner or neighbor? I'd be inclined to fix it your way (getting a signoff from inspector/city) regardless of IF the wall is on your or neighbor's property.

3. But given that the neighbor is a horse's patoot the survey is absolutely step 1, best case is you determine the ownership and then agree on both the fix and the $ cost.

Don't spend money on lawyers, fighting the city or contesting the issue with the neighbor; its ugly and a hazard so why not just make it better.

 

[Jaker]

I work in land use. What the heck is being "retained?"

In CT, no zoning permits are required for most retaining walls. Freestanding, yes, if over a certain height. But a building permit is required for retaining walls over 3 feet. There needs to be drainage behind the wall.

Your photo looks like a weird hardscape feature. Is there a purpose?

EDIT: I just noticed the pic was sideways ( I'm on phone).

Still can't imagine what it violated. It appears to be a grade change separator.

exactly

 

[imno1]

Can you get Mexico to pay for it?

 

[huskiesouth]

A suggestion which worked for a client of mine who had a brewing issue with a neighbor a few years ago.

Get in touch with the neighbor, tell him you're having a survey done and invite him over for a burger & brew after the survey comes in - you both have the same goal in mind, improving that area of both properties, talking about it face-to-face could well achieve a peaceful resolution and have everyone spend their money on the fix rather than on lawyers, etc.

 

[Dove]

Surveyors will "zap" a single property line so don't feel you need to do an antigen improvement as-built.

How new is the house? There could be a survey in the Planning and Zoning office. Or building dept. Was "wall"there at time of CO? Alas, the "wall" could angle onto neighbor's yard. Surveying the property line will determine.

 

[Jaker]

You could take that thing down in a couple hours, leave it dirt or order a load of landscape block from Home Depot for a quick fix. Not worth anykind of legal actions or hassle.

 

[storrsroars]

Congratulations on finding a relatively flat piece of property in Pittsburgh.

If you decide to slope it, I wouldn't plant grass there because you're gonna hate mowing that slope. Leave it dirt, put in something like boxwoods or burning bush - those will grow quickly in Pittsburgh and would give you at least some privacy.. Leave a dirt border on your side, throw in some hostas and daylillies for a no-maintenance garden on your side that will partially hide how fugly those shrubs will get if you don't trim them all time.

I would not bother with another wall. Using Home Depot blocks will be a few hundred dollars - I'd count you'd need 48 just on what I see from the photo, and there's no guarantee they'll be stable given how wet it gets here. At $3-$4 apiece, that adds up and it's more work than you think it is - it might even collapse on your side, not your neighbors. I'm having that issue now with a raised garden I built using those things to alleviate a drainage problem from a slope.

I am surprised there wasn't a survey done prior to purchase. I had thought that was a necessity in Allegheny County.

 

[Jaker]

nice slope for a slip and slide.

 

[Pgh2Storrs]

Congratulations on finding a relatively flat piece of property in Pittsburgh.

If you decide to slope it, I wouldn't plant grass there because you're gonna hate mowing that slope. Leave it dirt, put in something like boxwoods or burning bush - those will grow quickly in Pittsburgh and would give you at least some privacy.. Leave a dirt border on your side, throw in some hostas and daylillies for a no-maintenance garden on your side that will partially hide how fugly those shrubs will get if you don't trim them all time.

I would not bother with another wall. Using Home Depot blocks will be a few hundred dollars - I'd count you'd need 48 just on what I see from the photo, and there's no guarantee they'll be stable given how wet it gets here. At $3-$4 apiece, that adds up and it's more work than you think it is - it might even collapse on your side, not your neighbors. I'm having that issue now with a raised garden I built using those things to alleviate a drainage problem from a slope.

I am surprised there wasn't a survey done prior to purchase. I had thought that was a necessity in Allegheny County.

A relatively flat piece of land in Mt Washington, no less.

Our intention is put up a fence along that side, so with that in mind, is there any benefit to grading the dirt down versus replacing the wall? Prior to this fiasco, the summer project was going to be fencing the backyard with the intention of doing a deck in the back next year.

 

[Dove]

A relatively flat piece of land in Mt Washington, no less.

Our intention is put up a fence along that side, so with that in mind, is there any benefit to grading the dirt down versus replacing the wall? Prior to this fiasco, the summer project was going to be fencing the backyard with the intention of doing a deck in the back next year.

It looks like the yard slumped. Those comical cinder blocks yielded. Is this how they looked when you bought?

I would remove the blocks. Tamp it all down. Landscape.

 

[storrsroars]

A relatively flat piece of land in Mt Washington, no less.

Our intention is put up a fence along that side, so with that in mind, is there any benefit to grading the dirt down versus replacing the wall? Prior to this fiasco, the summer project was going to be fencing the backyard with the intention of doing a deck in the back next year.

I don't think so. We put up a picket fence in backyard as we didn't want an electronic fence for our dog. The entire back of the yard is a slope. Fence hasn't moved in 20 years.

If you don't have a plan for the blocks after you remove them, just throw them in a pile, post a photo on craigslist for free blocks and they'll be gone in a day or two.

 

[Slick]

I apologize for the OT thread, but I’m a first time home owner in need of some advice…

My wife and I closed on the house on 6/4 and immediately got pulled into a dispute between the previous owner and the neighbor.

There’s a retaining wall on one side of the backyard that the neighbor has been complaining about for years and, when they saw the home was for sale, he wrote letters to the previous owners and the realtors selling the property stating that it needed to be fixed and/or disclosed in the sale that the wall was in violation of city code. In addition to the letters, he opened a case with the city of Pittsburgh in which they cited the previous owners for the wall being in disrepair and pieces laying in his yard. The case was closed prior to closing, but the wall was never fixed. The inspector closed the case because neither the previous owner nor the neighbor gave them permission to be on their property to view the wall so they viewed it from the street and closed the case based upon there being no visible pieces laying in his yard but did not inspect the actual condition of the wall. We were given a copy of the case closure prior to closing on the house but within the Seller’s disclosure form, nothing was noted about the wall being an issue or any violations.

The neighbor showed up while we were painting last weekend to complain about the wall and subsequently called the city to inquire why the case was closed. We met with the inspectors this week at which point they agreed that the wall had not been adequately repaired but since they closed the previous case, any new citations would be in our name since we now own the property. The neighbor realizes this is screwing us, but asked that the case be reopened in an effort to try to pressure the previous owners.

As far as things going in our favor, we have the letters the neighbor wrote to the previous owner/realtors asking that the wall be fixed/disclosed prior to sale, a letter from the previous owners to the neighbor stating that money would be allocated during closing to fix the wall (there was no money/mention of this), the Seller’s disclosure where there was no mention of any issue, and the city inspectors who stated they would testify in our favor if we chose to pursue civil action.

Our real estate agent has reached out to the seller’s agent with this information but we have yet to hear back. Assuming they refuse to address this, I wanted to get opinions as to if it is worth it to pursue a civil case against the previous owners?

The wall looks like a piece of junk. I would dismantle it ASAP

 

[DCHuskyFan]

If your house is at the top of the slope, I would remove the wall and let it slope down so the lower slope homeowner get some nice water runoff. The upper slope homeowner is not responsible for runoff to the lower homeowner as long as it is a natural condition. I dealt with this in FL as a lower slope homeowner, and I had to put in a French drain with catch basins so my lanai and pool area didn’t flood every time it rained.

A suggestion which worked for a client of mine who had a brewing issue with a neighbor a few years ago.

Get in touch with the neighbor, tell him you're having a survey done and invite him over for a burger & brew after the survey comes in - you both have the same goal in mind, improving that area of both properties, talking about it face-to-face could well achieve a peaceful resolution and have everyone spend their money on the fix rather than on lawyers, etc.

Didn’t you have a survey done as part of the home purchase?

 

[dennismenace]

There’s actually an ordinance in my town that prevents this after a spate of spite fences.

Aliteration; well done!

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Regardless of what your neighbor says I’d throw that thing into the Allegheny River if I were you

 

[Rocktheworld]

There’s actually an ordinance in my town that prevents this after a spate of spite fences.

Lol like he’s living next to Mocha Joe

 

[storrsroars]

Regardless of what your neighbor says I’d throw that thing into the Allegheny River if I were you

He's on the south shore of the Monogohela ;-)

 

[UCDaveD]

Can you get Mexico to pay for it?

I’ve been banned for much subtler comments than this.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I’ve been banned for much subtler comments than this.

Careful lol might get banned for that statement

It’s happened to more than none of us

 

[Fishy]

“I need legal advice….’

Thirty-seven people who are not attorneys immediately respond.

Make it 38 - you’re gonna end up fixing the wall. Or murdering the neighbor.

Your call.

 

[Yardigan]

I think...if we were to check in a year from now...there will be no change

 

[CL82]

“I need legal advice….’

Thirty-seven people who are not attorneys immediately respond.

Make it 38 - you’re gonna end up fixing the wall. Or murdering the neighbor.

Your call.

Third possibility: you fix the wall and coincidently your neighbor “disappears.” As long as you can keep his dog from digging behind the wall you’re good to go.

 

[Fishy]

Third possibility: you fix the wall and coincidently your neighbor “disappears.” As long as you can keep his dog from digging behind the wall you’re good to go.

I think the important thing is that he seek a creative solution.