Lebron James about to remind the World who the Champs really are: | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Lebron James about to remind the World who the Champs really are:

caw said:
They are when comparing across generations because of the rule differences, for starters. It was literally a different game. That is why pace adjusted stats and other advanced analytics mean squat across generations. I actually think you should agree with this based on what you wrote.

In regards to Oscar, I can't claim to have ever seen him play. So I'm not arguing where he stands in the top ten. My point is, you can't really unless you were one of the few to have seen him multiple times over multiple years still alive. The only thing you can ask is "Was he the best during his prime?" If he was, then there is an argument to be made for him as the GOAT. I wouldn't make it, but someone could, I'm sure.
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The rule differences are fine to incorporate in an argument, but the fact is, the numbers back then are incredibly inflated in comparison to any era following it. 6’7 guys averaged 30 points and 20 boards. Bill Russell shot like 42% for his career. They can be the GOATS for their era, but the translation doesn’t work when you get to the top, top level. This current era is the greatest, most efficient era of the game. The playing field is substantially more level as opposed to the early days.
 
The Yakk said:
I'm not sure exactly whose intelligence you exposed as lacking.
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I would love for anyone to explain how LeBron isn’t a top-2 player OAT, statistically and accomplishment wise.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
I would love for anyone to explain how LeBron isn’t a top-2 player OAT, statistically and accomplishment wise.
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I posted a bunch of all time NBA player rankings in this thread and every one had LeBron #2. So it's only 1 outlier poster on here who you'll need that explanation from.
 
HooperScooper said:
I posted a bunch of all time NBA player rankings in this thread and every one had LeBron #2. So it's only 1 outlier poster on here who you'll need that explanation from.
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I have a feeling a few of the fellas who said LeBron was being selfish/making it about himself have him ranked significantly lower than that too. But alas, it is what it is.
 
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Lebron at #2 is laughable. He just doesnt have the clutch gene. It takes Ray's miraculous 3 to get him 1 Ring. Then, Kyrie and a suspension to get him another Ring.
 
wingsfan055 said:
Lebron at #2 is laughable. He just doesnt have the clutch gene. It takes Ray's miraculous 3 to get him 1 Ring. Then, Kyrie and a suspension to get him another Ring.
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IMG_7035.jpeg
 
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CardiacAndre7 said:
Playoff clutch shots tend to trump regular season i’d say. Would you agree?
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Yep, it's just that the playoff clutch isn't that large a sample size. All those clutch stats are kind of silly and arbitrary anyways. Last 5 seconds, last 10 seconds, last minute, last 2-3 minutes. You can have so many cut off points to try and make your guy look better or someone else look worse.

I do think it's fair to say without the Kawhi missed ft and Ray's shot Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak. Would you agree? Lebron had a huge statline in that game but he would've been known for the three turnovers at the end and clanking the last shot.
 
superjohn said:
Yep, it's just that the playoff clutch isn't that large a sample size. All those clutch stats are kind of silly and arbitrary anyways. Last 5 seconds, last 10 seconds, last minute, last 2-3 minutes. You can have so many cut off points to try and make your guy look better or someone else look worse.

I do think it's fair to say without the Kawhi missed ft and Ray's shot Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak. Would you agree? Lebron had a huge statline in that game but he would've been known for the three turnovers at the end and clanking the last shot.
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LeBron brought them back, he had 16 points in the 4th. That’s such a tired argument.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
LeBron brought them back, he had 16 points in the 4th. That’s such a tired argument.
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So you don't agree that if Kawhi didn't miss the ft and Ray didn't hit the three Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak?

A lot has been written and said about Lebron in the last few minutes of that game and how Ray's shot was legacy saving for Lebron. It kind of goes to show the clutch stats are pretty arbitrary. Lebron had a great 4th quarter numbers wise but his last few minutes were pretty brutal.
 
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superjohn said:
So you don't agree that if Kawhi didn't miss the ft and Ray didn't hit the three Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak?

A lot has been written and said about Lebron in the last few minutes of that game and how Ray's shot was legacy saving for Lebron. It kind of goes to show the clutch stats are pretty arbitrary. Lebron had a great 4th quarter numbers wise but his last few minutes were pretty brutal.
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It might be, but that argument doesn't really do much for me. There's a million what ifs that lead to every championship. What if Kerr misses his game winner in 95 for Jordan's 5th title or what if Charles Smith doesn't miss a million layups at the buzzer in the ECF in 93? It's hard enough to really compare MJ and LeBron with their actual accomplishments, bringing what ifs into it makes it impossible and pointless
 
superjohn said:
So you don't agree that if Kawhi didn't miss the ft and Ray didn't hit the three Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak?

A lot has been written and said about Lebron in the last few minutes of that game and how Ray's shot was legacy saving for Lebron. It kind of goes to show the clutch stats are pretty arbitrary. Lebron had a great 4th quarter numbers wise but his last few minutes were pretty brutal.
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What if’s are so pointless. People miss free throws, they aren’t just automatically given. Ray is the 2nd greatest shooter of all time, and was in the game for the exact thing he did. LeBron dragged the team back into that game/series.

We could go through any great players career and point to moments, it doesn’t change a thing.
 
navery12 said:
It might be, but that argument doesn't really do much for me. There's a million what ifs that lead to every championship. What if Kerr misses his game winner in 95 for Jordan's 5th title or what if Charles Smith doesn't miss a million layups at the buzzer in the ECF in 93? It's hard enough to really compare MJ and LeBron with their actual accomplishments, bringing what ifs into it makes it impossible and pointless
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Exactly. What if Jordan was called for that incredibly obvious push off on Byron Russell?
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
What if’s are so pointless. People miss free throws, they aren’t just automatically given. Ray is the 2nd greatest shooter of all time, and was in the game for the exact thing he did. LeBron dragged the team back into that game/series.

We could go through any great players career and point to moments, it doesn’t change a thing.
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Yes, Lebron dragged them back and then coughed it up in the final minutes. Without that shot I think he legacy is very different. You don't?
 
superjohn said:
Yes, Lebron dragged them back and then coughed it up in the final minutes. Without that shot I think he legacy is very different. You don't?
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Yeah, in your hypothetical, fantasy world, things would be different. Congrats, what a great point to make. Do you go through every great player and create scenarios that didn’t happen to change their legacy? Or just LeBron?
 
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navery12 said:
It might be, but that argument doesn't really do much for me. There's a million what ifs that lead to every championship. What if Kerr misses his game winner in 95 for Jordan's 5th title or what if Charles Smith doesn't miss a million layups at the buzzer in the ECF in 93? It's hard enough to really compare MJ and LeBron with their actual accomplishments, bringing what ifs into it makes it impossible and pointless
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Jordan doesn't have those what ifs in the finals, he doesn't have the Lebron performance vs. Dirk in the finals. Jordan stripped Charles Smith like he stripped Karl Malone before sending Bryon Russell skating on his way to sinking the jumper. Jordan told Kerr on the bench he was going to set him up for the wide open shot and Kerr told him "I'll make it." Jordan set him up for the wide open shot and Kerr made it.

The only what if for Jordan in the finals is would his 6 for 6 have been 8 for 8? 10 for 10? Had he not retired twice in the prime of his career when he was hands down the best player in the league coming off of two three peats.
 
CardiacAndre7 said:
Yeah, in your hypothetical, fantasy world, things would be different. Congrats, what a great point to make. Do you go through every great player and create scenarios that didn’t happen to change their legacy? Or just LeBron?
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Are you pretending I'm making this up and it hasn't been written about and talked about a million times?
 
superjohn said:
Jordan doesn't have those what ifs in the finals, he doesn't have the Lebron performance vs. Dirk in the finals. Jordan stripped Charles Smith like he stripped Karl Malone before sending Bryon Russell skating on his way to sinking the jumper. Jordan told Kerr on the bench he was going to set him up for the wide open shot and Kerr told him "I'll make it." Jordan set him up for the wide open shot and Kerr made it.

The only what if for Jordan in the finals is would his 6 for 6 have been 8 for 8? 10 for 10? Had he not retired twice in the prime of his career when he was hands down the best player in the league coming off of two three peats.
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Except he does have those what ifs in the Finals and you literally just wrote about one of them with Steve Kerr. Why do you get to say what if Ray missed his shot but I can't say what is Steve Kerr missed his shot? But any discussion about what ifs is dumb and pointless and I regret ever getting involved in the first place
 
superjohn said:
This has to be a troll.

Bryon Russell is the guy you're looking for and even he would laugh his arse off at your post.
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Lmao okay, mixed up two letters, that’s the best ya got. And maybe he would laugh, but it was still an obvious push off. Ray would probably laugh his arse off with you saying he saved LeBron’s legacy.
 
superjohn said:
Are you pretending I'm making this up and it hasn't been written about and talked about a million times?
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Are you confused, i’m genuinely curious? Is this the world where Ray did make that shot? If so, yes, you’re making something up.

Flat earth has been talked and written about a million times too, doesn’t make it a real thing.
 
navery12 said:
Except he does have those what ifs in the Finals and you literally just wrote about one of them with Steve Kerr. Why do you get to say what if Ray missed his shot but I can't say what is Steve Kerr missed his shot? But any discussion about what ifs is dumb and pointless and I regret ever getting involved in the first place
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Ray hit his shot off of a Bosh rebound off a Lebron miss after Lebron turned it over three times down the stretch. Despite his great statistical 4th quarter Lebron would've been remembered (rightly or wrongly) for choking down the stretch with his brick being the last shot of the series. Jordan possibly would've been criticized for inviting the double team to give Kerr the open shot but that was the set play and Jordan's decision if/when the double team came which is very different than turning it over and missing the last shot to end the finals, plus they had another game to play had Kerr missed. They would've just gone on to win game 7 but he never needed to play a game 7 in the finals.
 
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