Lebron James about to remind the World who the Champs really are:

[CardiacAndre7]

Lebron at #2 is laughable. He just doesnt have the clutch gene. It takes Ray's miraculous 3 to get him 1 Ring. Then, Kyrie and a suspension to get him another Ring.

 

[superjohn]

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[CardiacAndre7]

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Playoff clutch shots tend to trump regular season i’d say. Would you agree?

 

[superjohn]

Playoff clutch shots tend to trump regular season i’d say. Would you agree?

Yep, it's just that the playoff clutch isn't that large a sample size. All those clutch stats are kind of silly and arbitrary anyways. Last 5 seconds, last 10 seconds, last minute, last 2-3 minutes. You can have so many cut off points to try and make your guy look better or someone else look worse.

I do think it's fair to say without the Kawhi missed ft and Ray's shot Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak. Would you agree? Lebron had a huge statline in that game but he would've been known for the three turnovers at the end and clanking the last shot.

 

[Scoe]

I take Duncan over Lebron.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Yep, it's just that the playoff clutch isn't that large a sample size. All those clutch stats are kind of silly and arbitrary anyways. Last 5 seconds, last 10 seconds, last minute, last 2-3 minutes. You can have so many cut off points to try and make your guy look better or someone else look worse.

I do think it's fair to say without the Kawhi missed ft and Ray's shot Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak. Would you agree? Lebron had a huge statline in that game but he would've been known for the three turnovers at the end and clanking the last shot.

LeBron brought them back, he had 16 points in the 4th. That’s such a tired argument.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

I take Duncan over Lebron.

Full fledged LeBron haters are so funny

 

[superjohn]

LeBron brought them back, he had 16 points in the 4th. That’s such a tired argument.

So you don't agree that if Kawhi didn't miss the ft and Ray didn't hit the three Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak?

A lot has been written and said about Lebron in the last few minutes of that game and how Ray's shot was legacy saving for Lebron. It kind of goes to show the clutch stats are pretty arbitrary. Lebron had a great 4th quarter numbers wise but his last few minutes were pretty brutal.

 

[navery12]

So you don't agree that if Kawhi didn't miss the ft and Ray didn't hit the three Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak?

A lot has been written and said about Lebron in the last few minutes of that game and how Ray's shot was legacy saving for Lebron. It kind of goes to show the clutch stats are pretty arbitrary. Lebron had a great 4th quarter numbers wise but his last few minutes were pretty brutal.

It might be, but that argument doesn't really do much for me. There's a million what ifs that lead to every championship. What if Kerr misses his game winner in 95 for Jordan's 5th title or what if Charles Smith doesn't miss a million layups at the buzzer in the ECF in 93? It's hard enough to really compare MJ and LeBron with their actual accomplishments, bringing what ifs into it makes it impossible and pointless

 

[CardiacAndre7]

So you don't agree that if Kawhi didn't miss the ft and Ray didn't hit the three Lebron's legacy in finals would be pretty bleak?

A lot has been written and said about Lebron in the last few minutes of that game and how Ray's shot was legacy saving for Lebron. It kind of goes to show the clutch stats are pretty arbitrary. Lebron had a great 4th quarter numbers wise but his last few minutes were pretty brutal.

What if’s are so pointless. People miss free throws, they aren’t just automatically given. Ray is the 2nd greatest shooter of all time, and was in the game for the exact thing he did. LeBron dragged the team back into that game/series.

We could go through any great players career and point to moments, it doesn’t change a thing.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

It might be, but that argument doesn't really do much for me. There's a million what ifs that lead to every championship. What if Kerr misses his game winner in 95 for Jordan's 5th title or what if Charles Smith doesn't miss a million layups at the buzzer in the ECF in 93? It's hard enough to really compare MJ and LeBron with their actual accomplishments, bringing what ifs into it makes it impossible and pointless

Exactly. What if Jordan was called for that incredibly obvious push off on Byron Russell?

 

[superjohn]

What if’s are so pointless. People miss free throws, they aren’t just automatically given. Ray is the 2nd greatest shooter of all time, and was in the game for the exact thing he did. LeBron dragged the team back into that game/series.

We could go through any great players career and point to moments, it doesn’t change a thing.

Yes, Lebron dragged them back and then coughed it up in the final minutes. Without that shot I think he legacy is very different. You don't?

 

[superjohn]

Exactly. What if Jordan was called for that incredibly obvious push off on Byron Russell?

This has to be a troll.

Bryon Russell is the guy you're looking for and even he would laugh his arse off at your post.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Yes, Lebron dragged them back and then coughed it up in the final minutes. Without that shot I think he legacy is very different. You don't?

Yeah, in your hypothetical, fantasy world, things would be different. Congrats, what a great point to make. Do you go through every great player and create scenarios that didn’t happen to change their legacy? Or just LeBron?

 

[superjohn]

It might be, but that argument doesn't really do much for me. There's a million what ifs that lead to every championship. What if Kerr misses his game winner in 95 for Jordan's 5th title or what if Charles Smith doesn't miss a million layups at the buzzer in the ECF in 93? It's hard enough to really compare MJ and LeBron with their actual accomplishments, bringing what ifs into it makes it impossible and pointless

Jordan doesn't have those what ifs in the finals, he doesn't have the Lebron performance vs. Dirk in the finals. Jordan stripped Charles Smith like he stripped Karl Malone before sending Bryon Russell skating on his way to sinking the jumper. Jordan told Kerr on the bench he was going to set him up for the wide open shot and Kerr told him "I'll make it." Jordan set him up for the wide open shot and Kerr made it.

The only what if for Jordan in the finals is would his 6 for 6 have been 8 for 8? 10 for 10? Had he not retired twice in the prime of his career when he was hands down the best player in the league coming off of two three peats.

 

[superjohn]

Yeah, in your hypothetical, fantasy world, things would be different. Congrats, what a great point to make. Do you go through every great player and create scenarios that didn’t happen to change their legacy? Or just LeBron?

Are you pretending I'm making this up and it hasn't been written about and talked about a million times?

 

[navery12]

Jordan doesn't have those what ifs in the finals, he doesn't have the Lebron performance vs. Dirk in the finals. Jordan stripped Charles Smith like he stripped Karl Malone before sending Bryon Russell skating on his way to sinking the jumper. Jordan told Kerr on the bench he was going to set him up for the wide open shot and Kerr told him "I'll make it." Jordan set him up for the wide open shot and Kerr made it.

The only what if for Jordan in the finals is would his 6 for 6 have been 8 for 8? 10 for 10? Had he not retired twice in the prime of his career when he was hands down the best player in the league coming off of two three peats.

Except he does have those what ifs in the Finals and you literally just wrote about one of them with Steve Kerr. Why do you get to say what if Ray missed his shot but I can't say what is Steve Kerr missed his shot? But any discussion about what ifs is dumb and pointless and I regret ever getting involved in the first place

 

[CardiacAndre7]

This has to be a troll.

Bryon Russell is the guy you're looking for and even he would laugh his arse off at your post.

Lmao okay, mixed up two letters, that’s the best ya got. And maybe he would laugh, but it was still an obvious push off. Ray would probably laugh his arse off with you saying he saved LeBron’s legacy.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Are you pretending I'm making this up and it hasn't been written about and talked about a million times?

Are you confused, i’m genuinely curious? Is this the world where Ray did make that shot? If so, yes, you’re making something up.

Flat earth has been talked and written about a million times too, doesn’t make it a real thing.

 

[superjohn]

Except he does have those what ifs in the Finals and you literally just wrote about one of them with Steve Kerr. Why do you get to say what if Ray missed his shot but I can't say what is Steve Kerr missed his shot? But any discussion about what ifs is dumb and pointless and I regret ever getting involved in the first place

Ray hit his shot off of a Bosh rebound off a Lebron miss after Lebron turned it over three times down the stretch. Despite his great statistical 4th quarter Lebron would've been remembered (rightly or wrongly) for choking down the stretch with his brick being the last shot of the series. Jordan possibly would've been criticized for inviting the double team to give Kerr the open shot but that was the set play and Jordan's decision if/when the double team came which is very different than turning it over and missing the last shot to end the finals, plus they had another game to play had Kerr missed. They would've just gone on to win game 7 but he never needed to play a game 7 in the finals.

 

[superjohn]

Are you confused, i’m genuinely curious? Is this the world where Ray did make that shot? If so, yes, you’re making something up.

Flat earth has been talked and written about a million times too, doesn’t make it a real thing.

Wow.

It has been written about and talked about so much that Ray has been asked about it in interviews and laughed it off.

You can try and be honest about what we're talking about or you can continue with this tactic.

 

[superjohn]

Ray hit his shot off of a Bosh rebound off a Lebron miss after Lebron turned it over three times down the stretch. Despite his great statistical 4th quarter Lebron would've been remembered (rightly or wrongly) for choking down the stretch with his brick being the last shot of the series. Jordan possibly would've been criticized for inviting the double team to give Kerr the open shot but that was the set play and Jordan's decision if/when the double team came which is very different than turning it over and missing the last shot to end the finals, plus they had another game to play had Kerr missed. They would've just gone on to win game 7 but he never needed to play a game 7 in the finals.

It was also a tie game when Jordan assisted on the game winner.

Navery is usually one of the stats nerds on the board, I'm sure he can find the probability the Heat had winning that game when Kawhi went to the line and the probability the Bulls had winning the game/series when they inbounded the ball.

The point is a tremendous amount of things went right for the Heat in a really short amount of time, for them to win that game. I think Lebron's legacy would look pretty different now had all those things not happened.

The lists when fans, media, and current players are polled have Lebron as the second best player of all-time. That's not a bad place to be, I don't think he would be there had all those things not went right in those final seconds of that game.

 

[Scoe]

Full fledged LeBron haters are so funny

2-1 against Lebron in the Finals, got saved by Ray from being 3-0 against Lebron in the finals.

Won 5 championships without joining forces, won a championship and was the real mvp in his 2nd season when Lebron didn’t make the playoffs in his 2nd season.

 

[Scoe]

It was also a tie game when Jordan assisted on the game winner.

Navery is usually one of the stats nerds on the board, I'm sure he can find the probability the Heat had winning that game when Kawhi went to the line and the probability the Bulls had winning the game/series when they inbounded the ball.

The point is a tremendous amount of things went right for the Heat in a really short amount of time, for them to win that game. I think Lebron's legacy would look pretty different now had all those things not happened.

The lists when fans, media, and current players are polled have Lebron as the second best player of all-time. That's not a bad place to be, I don't think he would be there had all those things not went right in those final seconds of that game.

For MJ there is no argument Lebron homers are the ones who need the argument.

 

[Scoe]

Ray hit his shot off of a Bosh rebound off a Lebron miss after Lebron turned it over three times down the stretch. Despite his great statistical 4th quarter Lebron would've been remembered (rightly or wrongly) for choking down the stretch with his brick being the last shot of the series. Jordan possibly would've been criticized for inviting the double team to give Kerr the open shot but that was the set play and Jordan's decision if/when the double team came which is very different than turning it over and missing the last shot to end the finals, plus they had another game to play had Kerr missed. They would've just gone on to win game 7 but he never needed to play a game 7 in the finals.

Duncan wasn’t in the game either he’s in then he’s 3-0 vs Lebron in the finals.