LaVols and Holly: Local Dissatisfaction Growing (merged thread) | The Boneyard

LaVols and Holly: Local Dissatisfaction Growing (merged thread)

vtcwbuff

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The anger at Warlick has been growing steadily among the fan base. On Volnation the poorly supported "fahr holly" threads from a couple of years ago are now almost universally accepted. Long time dyed in the wool (orange of course) fans are now calling for her immediate firing. It's almost impossible to find a post or fan supporting her.

As a UConn fan I am torn. On one hand I'm reveling in the UT fans' suffering but on the other it's hard to watch a one time elite program like UTenn's fall so far.
 
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I knew there was and is building tension in Knoxville. But this article and the locals’ responses to it were, frankly, a bit shocking. Anger is often an irrational response, but these reader responses were rather thoughtful and therefore worth a read.


Is it time for the Lady Vols to move on from Holly?
Pat Summit: ARGUABLY the greatest coach in Women's Basketball history. I won't argue--I just say Pat was the GREATEST WOMAN Coach in Women's basketball history--that is true.
Having said that Holly from all the stats specified in this report: is among the best coaches in WBB history. She only lost 3 games and by ONLY 2 points--is that terrible?? From my previous comments on Holly you all know I am among those who have spoken loudly about Holly--just can't ,I mean can't, love this coach----any more??
The solution for U Tenn is to keep Holly as HC and recruit a great woman from a great program to be her (apparent) assistant to run the team until Holly's contract runs out..
 
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The anger at Warlick has been growing steadily among the fan base. On Volnation the poorly supported "fahr holly" threads from a couple of years ago are now almost universally accepted. Long time dyed in the wool (orange of course) fans are now calling for her immediate firing. It's almost impossible to find a post or fan supporting her.

As a UConn fan I am torn. On one hand I'm reveling in the UT fans' suffering but on the other it's hard to watch a one time elite program like UTenn's fall so far.
Watching. the end of last night's game, males me believe Holly has lost the team. It also looks like the only way to right the ship is for Holly to be gone. The Notre Dame game could get very ugly.
 

BigBird

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She’ll likely get a W versus Arkansas, but then the stuff hits the fan with ND. I can’t say why, but for me, the ND game becomes “must see.”
 
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I’m a huge fan of UConn, but Holly’s ineptitude frustrates me as a fan of women’s basketball in general. I don’t think taking over a Pat Summit team would’ve been easy for anyone. There’s obviously a huge amount of pressure to maintain the legacy that was built up for so long under Summit. I give credit to Warlick for giving it her best shot, but I think it’s time for someone else. The UConn-Tennessee rivalry brought a lot of people to the women’s game and luckily Notre Dame stepped in at around the time Tennessee lost some of its luster. This year seems like a down year in general for women’s basketball since no team(s) seem to be dominant enough to set the bar. I just hope women’s basketball continues to improve and gain the fan base it deserves.
 

donalddoowop

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I’m a huge fan of UConn, but Holly’s ineptitude frustrates me as a fan of women’s basketball in general. I don’t think taking over a Pat Summit team would’ve been easy for anyone. There’s obviously a huge amount of pressure to maintain the legacy that was built up for so long under Summit. I give credit to Warlick for giving it her best shot, but I think it’s time for someone else. The UConn-Tennessee rivalry brought a lot of people to the women’s game and luckily Notre Dame stepped in at around the time Tennessee lost some of its luster. This year seems like a down year in general for women’s basketball since no team(s) seem to be dominant enough to set the bar. I just hope women’s basketball continues to improve and gain the fan base it deserves.
A down year because there seems to be no dominant team ? Isn't that what people have been wanting? Parity is what has been missing according to some fans and those who are not fans. Remember, UConn was not good for basketball when it was dominating. Now, WCBB should be drawing big crowds throughout the country because many games should be close and interesting, imo.
 

Papa33

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While I admired what Pat Summit did for women's college basketball, I do hold her responsible for what seemed to be vindictiveness toward Geno and UConn late in her career, I do not understand how Boneyarders still target current Tennessee players and coaches, holding them accountable for actions committed by Pat and by the institution. As a fan, I believe the focus should be on current coaches and players, and I do not wish humiliation on players who are current victims of a bad coaching situation. Sorry, but that also seems vindictive. Why not turn the page?
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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A down year because there seems to be no dominant team ? Isn't that what people have been wanting? Parity is what has been missing according to some fans and those who are not fans. Remember, UConn was not good for basketball when it was dominating. Now, WCBB should be drawing big crowds throughout the country because many games should be close and interesting, imo.
Not exactly. To begin with, even though I am by no means a UConn fan, you could have won even more championships and I wouldn't have been bothered. The only thing that bothered me - and I think turned off some fans - was that there were periods where it seemed like no-one could compete with UConn. Just compete. That was a turn-off, because it really felt like everyone was playing for 2nd place. That said, I always said the positive was it (should have) made other teams work harder, and perhaps it did. Remember, the last 2 seasons ended badly for UConn on last second shots.

I still think there are dominant programs, including UConn. Perhaps less than some years, and vulnerable, and not dominating by score - but UConn, Notre Dame, Baylor, Louisville, Oregon, Stanford, Mississippi State - these programs (and maybe NC State, as well) are dominating the sport this year.
 

donalddoowop

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She is still getting recruits. Horston is arguably the best player in her class.
I wonder if Horston is rethinking her decision; not to the point of changing it but to wondering what she will face when she arrives next season.
 

MainefanSC

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it's hard to watch a one time elite program like UTenn's fall so far.
Pretty much enjoying every loss. Nothing against the players and nothing personal. Just that Tenn. NEVER offered an apology and want to move on. Sorry I won't move on until their admin say SOMETHING in the line of a wrong doing with all the "violations" reported to the NCAA. I still remember DT saying something about "when I see orange I just have to hit it". Sorry , I guess I hold a grudge when it comes to false accusation.
 

HuskyNan

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While I admired what Pat Summit did for women's college basketball, I do hold her responsible for what seemed to be vindictiveness toward Geno and UConn late in her career, I do not understand how Boneyarders still target current Tennessee players and coaches, holding them accountable for actions committed by Pat and by the institution. As a fan, I believe the focus should be on current coaches and players, and I do not wish humiliation on players who are current victims of a bad coaching situation. Sorry, but that also seems vindictive. Why not turn the page?
UConn fans didn’t like Pat Summitt and were angry at the way the series between the teams ended but the entire episode was magnified by the animus between the Boneyard and the Summitt, the LV fan board. It was the LV FANS that collected the “information” for the NCAA complaint - from the Boneyard, no less! - and it was an LV fan, one who had her lips surgically attached to Pat Summit’s butt, that kept promulgating lies about Geno.

Hence, UConn fans on the Boneyard can’t see LV fans suffer enough. That PHS’s name gets used as effigy for the Tin Foil Hat Brigade on the Summitt is unfortunate
 

oldude

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While I was incredibly disturbed when Pat Summitt submitted her report to the NCAA, I long ago forgave her, particularly in light of her diagnosis with Alzheimer’s. I will remind everyone that the initial symptoms of this terrible disease can appear many years before an official diagnosis and eventual death. Those symptoms can include various cognitive issues, memory loss, confusion resulting in anger and sometimes irrational behavior.

Pat issues her 40 page report in 2007? She was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s in 2010. She passed away in 2015. It’s time for the BY to let go of this one.
 
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Yes point well taken here... and I think it started for Tennessee after the Maya Moore incident.... where they seemed to say "team be damned" and went for the highest rated player, whether they fit the bill for them or not..... hard to crystalize a team when this is the plan
 
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Wonder if we will see any type of mass exodus out of UT after this season. These players just can’t be happy. If Holly is still there, why, why, why would Evina Westbrook, Rennia Davis, etc want to stick around.
 
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The anger at Warlick has been growing steadily among the fan base. On Volnation the poorly supported "fahr holly" threads from a couple of years ago are now almost universally accepted. Long time dyed in the wool (orange of course) fans are now calling for her immediate firing. It's almost impossible to find a post or fan supporting her.

As a UConn fan I am torn. On one hand I'm reveling in the UT fans' suffering but on the other it's hard to watch a one time elite program like UTenn's fall so far.

IMO WCBB needs all the strong nationally recognized teams it can get and that is the only reason why Tennessee's fall bothers me. Otherwise I'd wish them Godspeed.
 

DefenseBB

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UConn fans didn’t like Pat Summitt and were angry at the way the series between the teams ended but the entire episode was magnified by the animus between the Boneyard and the Summitt, the LV fan board. It was the LV FANS that collected the “information” for the NCAA complaint - from the Boneyard, no less! - and it was an LV fan, one who had her lips surgically attached to Pat Summit’s butt, that kept promulgating lies about Geno.

Hence, UConn fans on the Boneyard can’t see LV fans suffer enough. That PHS’s name gets used as effigy for the Tin Foil Hat Brigade on the Summitt is unfortunate
Thanks for once again resetting the bar on the background for all the new posters or older ones who forgot. There are two concurrent aspects for me:
1. Tennessee is WCBB Royalty, whether we here on the BY want to really acknowledge it or not. Without Tenn, UConn would not be UConn. At the end of Pat's tenure, her and Geno did patch things up and Geno attended her memorial and I think tried to make an anonymous donation to the Foundation set up in her name, yet the donation was made public. So for me, I am not against the program/women in it. Having a good Tennessee engenders much dialogue and spirit.
2. The VolNation/Summitt boards are full of vile, negative haters who cannot adjust to a new reality. They still feel they are "THE PROGRAM FOR WCBB". The delusion of what they really are vs. what they were is night and day. The fans who post are truly nasty and illmannered, which is what social media in an aninimity format allows if the forum is not guarded. I had thought about joining the forum to try and interject some logic and facts/numbers but to me, it's just not worth it as the old phrase "know your audience" tells me it won't matter whatever is posted. So in most instances, I am reveling in their pain.

Having said that, I do believe programs need to embrace their past and should absolutely celebrate it but not to the extent of burdening the current state of the program. That is exactly what is happening now at Tenn. The current administration is too preoccupied with a)Football and b)Pat's choice of legacy.

With Philip Fulmer as the AD, he knows how he was treated and what happened to the program after he was "relieved of his duties", the program completely spirialed out of control. His fear is twofold-to prevent the spiraling out of control that happened when he was sent packing (the program is doing ok with Holly, they win 75% of their games, she is getting top recruiting classes and they still draw 7500+ fans a game). What happens if the next coach can't recruit or can't win 75% of their games (see Texas with Gail Gostenkors, or LA Tech or USC Trojans). Fulmer seems content with Holly. 2nd-the Athletic Department at Tenn is still reeling from the lawsuits when it merged the Men's and Women's departments and from all the contract buyouts and facility upgrades it made so it does not have money to 1. buy out Holly or 2. really pay a top coach for a program that loses money. Holly is still on the cheap at $690K vs. her P5 top college programs.

Last, the new contract Holly signed over the summer allows for a 33% buyout of the remaining contract. She is at $690k~ through 2021-22 so at the end of the year, to buy her out at the end of this year would be $690k and then continue to go down the longer she coaches. As we have noted numerous times non-revenue sports do not buy out their coaches as boosters/supporters don't pony up the money-yes, their have been extreme exceptions but that is not going to happen here. What I can see is the pressure get so much (they miss the NCAA tourney) and too much vitriol is untenable that Phil has her "resign" and take a different role with the school, allowing for a graceful exit. Short of that, I think we get to see Holly for 3 more years! ;)
 

bballnut90

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If I were a neutral observer (I'm not), the biggest thing that would bother me about Holly is that she simply wastes a lot of the top talent that comes through Tennessee. If you look at top recruits who were almost exclusively coached by Holly (2011 class-present), the lack of player development and results is just awful:

Ariel Massengale-#3 recruit in 2011, never became an AA or WNBA player. Had a couple of solid seasons at UT.
Cierra Burdick-#4 recruit in 2011, never found success in the WNBA or became and AA.

Bashaara Graves-#5 recruit in 2012, SEC FOY and took home a NFOY award. People on this board were saying she was better than any of UCONN's freshman trio of Stewart, Tuck and Jefferson. Regressed as her career continued, became a 2nd round draft pick and played a couple of years as a deep bench player.

Mercedes Russell-#1 recruit in 2013. Never made AA and was a late 2nd round draft pick in the WNBA. Bench player as a rookie.

Diamond Deshields-#3 recruit in 2013. Played 2 years for Holly and never became an All-American after winning NFOY honors at North Carolina. Left Tennessee on bad terms, bolting to play overseas before becoming the #3 draft pick and having a good rookie season.

Jaime Nared-#6 recruit in 2014. Never became an AA and was a 2nd round draft pick in the WNBA.

Te'a Cooper-#12 recruit in 2015. Played one year and struggled, sat out a year injured and then was kicked off the team. Now is a top player and leading scorer for a top 15 team in South Carolina.

Anastasia Hayes-#7 recruit in 2017. Played 1 year and did an okay job, kicked off team. Transferred to MTSU.

Evina Westbrook-#2 recruit in 2017. Has had a good sophomore year but team is at an all-time low and at risk of not making the tournament.

Rennia Davis-#12 recruit in 2017. Had a good freshman season but has been underwhelming as a sophomore. Team at risk of not making tournament.

Zaay Green-#10 recruit in 2018. Having a good freshman season so far.


Literally not one player has developed into an All-American or even a standout on the national level. No one improves under Holly or comes close to reaching her potential. No one becomes a WNBA caliber player under her tutelage. I'd rather see these players play for coaches who will develop them and improve the sport than waste their talent.
 

SVCBeercats

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The solution for U Tenn is to keep Holly as HC and recruit a great woman from a great program to be her (apparent) assistant to run the team until Holly's contract runs out..

Why get rid of Holly Warlick? Her record is overall 165–59 (.737) and in conference 72–29 (.713). Which places her in 13th place on the list of active coaches as of 2017. So which of the 12 coaches ahead of her should Tennessee pursuit? Geno? Nope! So maybe there is only 11 they would pursue. Her winning percentage is only about 11% less than Pat Summitt's, the acknowledged 2nd best women's basketball coach ever. So I can't wait for them to dump the 13th best active women's basketball coach for God knows whom. It will be a blast when the next coach can't even mustard a winning percentage. Oh, the pain on Rocky Top! Perhaps Rick Insell would want to make a move.
 
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