Lamb Traded To Thunder

[SlicinNDyson11]

Harden is a decent player, starter quality. The Thunder should have an advantage when he is on the floor against subs, in what way does the PPP show this to be flawed. If anything the 112 per 100 possessions shows Harden is better than the subs he is playing against by a considerable amount. This doesn't show he is a top 3-5 SG in the league.

I mentioned the top 5 scorers because it shows the lack of talent behind Martin. If you would prefer to look at the top two on each team, the spread looks worse. Lowry, Dragic, and Scola are decent but not a one demands a double team or more defensive attention than Martin.

As for defense, Harden will look much worse without guys like Ibaka and Perkins behind him. Martin's backline was far inferior.

To help you understand better ppp when Harden, Westbrook, and Durant are on the floor the Thunder average 112 points per 100 possessions when Harden is off the floor they average 99 points per 100 possessions. How do not understand that the majority of Harden's minutes are against starters? The guy plays 32 minutes a game and all of sudden it's all against the opposing team's bench, really? It's funny you say Martin's backline was inferior because he had Samuel Dalembert and Marcus Camby protecting the rim last season, both of whom are excellent shot blockers, to try and defend Kevin Martin's defense is laughable to say the least. As for the supporting casts nobody is arguing that OKC doesn't have the two better players surrounding Harden, but after that what do they have? Ibaka is developing and raw on offense, Sefolosha is strictly a shooter, ditto to Fisher, Perkins and Collison are limited outside of their top three players OKC was extremely limited on offense last season. Meaning Harden had to do a lot of creating for himself as well as others, now OKC has to bank on Westbrook and Durant to do it all. Also calling Harden a "decent player" is just completely disrespectful, guy struggled in the Finals sure but he had a great season last year and is only getting better.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Harden is a decent player, starter quality. The Thunder should have an advantage when he is on the floor against subs, in what way does the PPP show this to be flawed. If anything the 112 per 100 possessions shows Harden is better than the subs he is playing against by a considerable amount. This doesn't show he is a top 3-5 SG in the league.

I mentioned the top 5 scorers because it shows the lack of talent behind Martin. If you would prefer to look at the top two on each team, the spread looks worse. Lowry, Dragic, and Scola are decent but not a one demands a double team or more defensive attention than Martin.

As for defense, Harden will look much worse without guys like Ibaka and Perkins behind him. Martin's backline was far inferior.

I like Harden. he was a great fit in OKC. We'll see how well he does as the man in Houston. Not making any predictions either way, but no Durant, no Westbrook will hurt him exponentially. I just don't see him as the star on a good to great team. And I watch lots of basketball. If he puts up similar numbers to what Martin put up in the last full season, (23 ppg, solid shooting percentages) the trade's (Harden vs. Martin) a wash.

 

[SlicinNDyson11]

I like Harden. he was a great fit in OKC. We'll see how well he does as the man in Houston. Not making any predictions either way, but no Durant, no Westbrook will hurt him exponentially. I just don't see him as the star on a good to great team. And I watch lots of basketball. If he puts up similar numbers to what Martin put up in the last full season, (23 ppg, solid shooting percentages) the trade's (Harden vs. Martin) a wash.

Martin's percentages haven't been solid since his Sacramento days, but like you said the best part about this is we are all don't have to wait and see. Season's right around the corner and we are all about to find out how valuable Harden really is.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Martin's percentages haven't been solid since his Sacramento days, but like you said the best part about this is we are all don't have to wait and see. Season's right around the corner and we are all about to find out how valuable Harden really is.

True. Martin didn't have anyone to command a double team. Harden did. He won't anymore. He has some young talent around him, but he will be the focus of the opposing team's defense every night. Can he handle it? Houston's gonna struggle big time. Can he handle it? Who knows. I just think these two teams swapped players, and OKC got more in the long run. We'll see what happens.....

 

[champs99and04]

One thing people aren't considering, is that Harden's only been in the league for three years, and is what, 23? Seriously, who has it all figured out after their third year in the league? Why are we shocked that he struggled going up against two of the best 40 players of all-time, and one guy that was playing at a level that only about five guys in the history of the sport have reached? Are we seriously going to throw out his stellar play in the first three rounds because he had a poor finals? Isn't that what we did with LeBron last year? Look how that worked out.

I really don't like this for OKC. Hell, what was stopping them from signing Harden to a max deal, then flipping Ibaka for an Andre Drummond type player? Look at it this way: Durant is arguably one of the best five pure scorers in the history of the game, and Presti has now surrounded him with two shoot first guards. I just can't get behind that.

 

[msgordon]

good post. harden is 23 and if u throw out the legler/kerr types he just had the best TS% of ANY GUARD, EVER

 

[3uconn]

Lamb will wear #11 for the Thunder.

 

[willinphilly]

Signing Harden to the deal he wanted would've put the Thunder about 25 million dollars over the luxury tax, and they have to pay 1.50 for every dollar over the tax. They also would've been more than 35 million dollars over the salary cap.

It's extremely hard to justify paying one guy that much when those are the consequences. Especially when they already have two other guys who are under big contracts for a long time.

Why do you care? Is it your money?

 

[stick]

Signing Harden to the deal he wanted would've put the Thunder about 25 million dollars over the luxury tax, and they have to pay 1.50 for every dollar over the tax. They also would've been more than 35 million dollars over the salary cap.

It's extremely hard to justify paying one guy that much when those are the consequences. Especially when they already have two other guys who are under big contracts for a long time.

That's a lot of BS. I'm not sure if Harden is worth max money, but most of the league was probably willing to give it to him. I can't believe how everyone falls in line with the spin that OKC management is giving. Fans always get suckered when owners claim greed by the players.

Some facts
1)You realize that Houston is going to sign him to a 5 year max contract. 2)OKC could only offer a 4 yr deal as they already had 2 guys on a 5 yr deal. 3)Harden was willing to give up that 5th year ($20 Million) and still come off the bench as long as they gave him that 4 yr max contract. OKC was basically telling Harden to take a "sacrifice" of nearly $30 million, not $5-8 million.

It wasn't Harden's fault that OKC overpaid for Ibaka and Perkins. It was very obvious Harden was more than willing to "sacrifice" financially as well statistically and be a part of a championship team. Based on potential and team chemistry, I can't believe they traded Harden when they had a chance to build a near west dynasty.

 

[dapriest]

Final number:

Thunder offered:
4 year, 53.5 million. Or about 13.4 million a year.

Harden got from Rockets:
5 year, 80 million. Or about 16 million a year.

Over 4 years of the original contract, that'd be about 2.6 million, per year, or about 10 million in total, plus another year at 16 million just for good measure.

[sarcasm on]
What a !
[/sarcasm off]

On a side note, I think the Rockets severely overpaid, but time will tell.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

Final number:

Thunder offered:
4 year, 53.5 million. Or about 13.4 million a year.

Harden got from Rockets:
5 year, 80 million. Or about 16 million a year.

Over 4 years of the original contract, that'd be about 2.6 million, per year, or about 10 million in total, plus another year at 16 million just for good measure.

[sarcasm on]
What a !
[/sarcasm off]

On a side note, I think the Rockets severely overpaid, but time will tell.

Plus, Texas does not have a state income tax.

 

[progrocks]

37 points, 12 assists. At least tonight he played like a max contract player

 

[msgordon]

freakin demar derozan who is terrible just got 4/40...harden is a snapmax. prettay good debut, no one had a 37-12 game all of last year

 

[Waquoit]

It's a bad trade for OKC. They could have waited. The old canard "whoever gets the best player wins the trade" seems to fit here.

 

[aceboon]

freakin demar derozan who is terrible just got 4/40...harden is a snapmax. prettay good debut, no one had a 37-12 game all of last year

seems the only reason for the lockout was so that the owners could get a bigger piece of the basketball related income, they're still giving out the same tty deals they did prior to the lockout

 

[aceboon]

It's a bad trade for OKC. They could have waited. The old canard "whoever gets the best player wins the trade" seems to fit here.

Waited for what exactly? I don't think anyone would argue that this trade makes OKC better, but you can't just let Harden leave for nothing in the offseason. I would've loved to see OKC take one more stab at it with their entire team intact but if they come up short again then what? What SG are they getting to fill that hole? Possibly Tyreke Evans since Sac doesn't seem interested in locking him up long term? Blah, I think Sac's indifference towards him tells everything.

 

[tzznandrew]

Waited for what exactly? I don't think anyone would argue that this trade makes OKC better, but you can't just let Harden leave for nothing in the offseason. I would've loved to see OKC take one more stab at it with their entire team intact but if they come up short again then what? What SG are they getting to fill that hole? Possibly Tyreke Evans since Sac doesn't seem interested in locking him up long term? Blah, I think Sac's indifference towards him tells everything.

He couldn't leave for nothing--he would have been a restricted free agent. If they let another team sign him to an offer sheet, they could have just matched that at got him at a discount, or then used him to facilitate a sign-and-trade.

That said, I do ultimately think that if you don't want to keep him, move ahead with a good deal. It was a good deal, not a great one, though.

 

[aceboon]

He couldn't leave for nothing--he would have been a restricted free agent. If they let another team sign him to an offer sheet, they could have just matched that at got him at a discount, or then used him to facilitate a sign-and-trade.

That said, I do ultimately think that if you don't want to keep him, move ahead with a good deal. It was a good deal, not a great one, though.

Harden wasn't signing any offer sheet less than the max, if Gordon got the deal that he got as an injury prone guard who barely even played last season, Harden was gonna get the max from somebody, so that point is moot. As far as the sign and trade, I guess, but usually in those situations you don't get fair value in return. I also don't think OKC wanted the issue to linger around the entire season.

 

[Waquoit]

Waited for what exactly?

You can't take real shots for the title for granted. You have to go for it. The Nats were wrong to sit Strasbourg and I think OKC should have went for it this year.

 

[tzznandrew]

Harden wasn't signing any offer sheet less than the max, if Gordon got the deal that he got as an injury prone guard who barely even played last season, Harden was gonna get the max from somebody, so that point is moot.

Correct me if I'm wrong--but the max (both in terms of pure dollars, and in terms of length) differs depending on who is offering the contract. The team you play for can offer you more money than any other team. So a "max" deal that you match is less than the max you can offer.

 

[Huskies4ever]

The more I think about it, the more it sucks for JL (short term). They are at half against the Spurs, and no Lamb. Thabeet has played 7 minutes. The thing that hurts Lamb, is he wasn't at training camp, no preseason games. I have a feeling he will be buried on the bench with this group. Maybe things would be different if it was a draft-day trade.....

 

[Scoe]

The more I think about it, the more it sucks for JL (short term). They are at half against the Spurs, and no Lamb. Thabeet has played 7 minutes. The thing that hurts Lamb, is he wasn't at training camp, no preseason games. I have a feeling he will be buried on the bench with this group. Maybe things would be different if it was a draft-day trade.....

Its a long season I didnt expect to see JL to get much playing time or any playing time tonight. He didnt have too many practices with OKC, and they are playing the Spurs tonight, short term it will hurt Lamb but I think it will help him in the long run working with Durant and Westbrook every day, remember JL didnt get too much playing time the beginning of his freshmen season and we know how he finished that season playing along side Kemba.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Its a long season I didnt expect to see JL to get much playing time or any playing time tonight. He didnt have too many practices with OKC, and they are playing the Spurs tonight, short term it will hurt Lamb but I think it will help him in the long run working with Durant and Westbrook every day, remember JL didnt get too much playing time the beginning of his freshmen season and we know how he finished that season playing along side Kemba.

I just don't expect much if at all, at least till the end of the year. Let's not forget, OKC has a nucleus, with KMart replacing Harden. It will be tough for Lamb. I hope you are right.

 

[Scoe]

I just don't expect much if at all, at least till the end of the year. Let's not forget, OKC has a nucleus, with KMart replacing Harden. It will be tough for Lamb. I hope you are right.

well I hope so too, in the short term it looks like Kmart is replacing Harden I hope Lamb gets into their rotation though, Tim Duncan is still amazing btw

 

[Huskies4ever]

well I hope so too, in the short term it looks like Kmart is replacing Harden I hope Lamb gets into their rotation though, Tim Duncan is still amazing btw

TD looks like he has found the Fountain of Youth.