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Lagow going home...

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FfldCntyFan

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I agree with everything but the 'wrong'. Nothing you wrote about not liking Pasqualoni is irrational, and you clearly explained why. There's plenty of other irrational crap out there that I was directing my comments toward - I think you can tell the difference.

The most irrational thing I've seen on the football forum recently was the call to add a kid one week before kickoff solely because we have an open scholarship. Your very rational response was as follows:

Right. The best move here, as long as I'm correct in the assumption, that school semesters and classes have not begun yet, is to take a 2013 NLI signee, that is not actually enrolled at UCONN, and get them enrolled ASAP.

Change on the bottom of a roster, with new blood, for a highly competitive team is most definitely desireable. The best players will bubble up to the top. It's done CONSTANTLY in the NFL. You can't do it so much in college, you know, because of that whole thing called 'education'. The time when you can do it, is in fall training camps before school starts.

Personally I expected someone who actually played college football (and during quite a long time on the old board would never cease to point this out) to place more value in the practice time that was missed by said prospect (unless somehow you are willing to claim that the few weeks the kids did get under their belts this summer were meaningless).

My stance on this specific situation is this, there isn't enough talent in state to build a quality FCS program. Unlike many more geographically fortunate schools we need to build the lion's share of our roster from elsewhere. At the same time all of the work that was invested during the first decade of this century has been pissed away at breakneck speed primarily due to some misguided need to placate local coaches.

I don't dislike Warde. I would in fact wager that there are few here who hold him in as high esteem as I do. I am beyond the point of no return with P (and GDL for that matter) however. I cannot believe that they have turned me against them as thoroughly as they have as quickly as they have. I see them slowly, quietly killing this program. It is kind of like Prometheus, with a bird of prey pecking away at his entrails, unfortunately for us, the vital organs wont regenerate. Left to P's devices our program will disappear within a few years and almost nobody outside of a zip code that begins with 06 will be able to recall that we did have a football program. This is why I feel as i do about the current head coach (and his side kick) and why I am infuriated at any defense of the man. The first thing out of the mouth of P's defender's is that he is recruiting so much better than anything we've seen. The second is on the lack of talent he has to work with. Where I get confused on these arguments is here:
We made it to bowl games (and even beat a pretty good South Carolina team) facing better BE competition during RE's last four years here yet each of those teams had numerous contributors who were not long into the program. If P's recruiting is superior (or even equal) to that of his predecessor, shouldn't at least some of the kids he has brought in have been able to contribute a bit more than they have? After all, they they are better recruits, supposedly competing for time against lesser players (RE's teams were talented enough to win bowl games, P's teams are so talent deficient they cannot even make it to bowl games). How do they possibly resolve this?

For the record, I have my six seats, purchased an additional seven through the three game deals that include Michigan and I plan on making it to every game. I will root like hell for the kids in blue with a sliver of a husky's face on their helmets and hope for wins in every game. Considering what I've heard about the defense, we should, at a minimum have a shot in each game. Considering what I've heard about the offensive line play (and I am still at a loss as to how this got so bad so quickly as even a bonobo should have been able to figure out how to at least on occasion get a large body on one of our opponents) it is quite possible that our offense will be far too similar to what it had been recently.
 

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I just typed a long thing about expectations/consistency/ football/ practice but f(kc it. Delete.

Sweater puppies.

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The most irrational thing I've seen on the football forum recently was the call to add a kid one week before kickoff solely because we have an open scholarship. Your very rational response was as follows:



Personally I expected someone who actually played college football (and during quite a long time on the old board would never cease to point this out) to place more value in the practice time that was missed by said prospect (unless somehow you are willing to claim that the few weeks the kids did get under their belts this summer were meaningless).

My stance on this specific situation is this, there isn't enough talent in state to build a quality FCS program. Unlike many more geographically fortunate schools we need to build the lion's share of our roster from elsewhere. At the same time all of the work that was invested during the first decade of this century has been pissed away at breakneck speed primarily due to some misguided need to placate local coaches.

I don't dislike Warde. I would in fact wager that there are few here who hold him in as high esteem as I do. I am beyond the point of no return with P (and GDL for that matter) however. I cannot believe that they have turned me against them as thoroughly as they have as quickly as they have. I see them slowly, quietly killing this program. It is kind of like Prometheus, with a bird of prey pecking away at his entrails, unfortunately for us, the vital organs wont regenerate. Left to P's devices our program will disappear within a few years and almost nobody outside of a zip code that begins with 06 will be able to recall that we did have a football program. This is why I feel as i do about the current head coach (and his side kick) and why I am infuriated at any defense of the man. The first thing out of the mouth of P's defender's is that he is recruiting so much better than anything we've seen. The second is on the lack of talent he has to work with. Where I get confused on these arguments is here:
We made it to bowl games (and even beat a pretty good South Carolina team) facing better BE competition during RE's last four years here yet each of those teams had numerous contributors who were not long into the program. If P's recruiting is superior (or even equal) to that of his predecessor, shouldn't at least some of the kids he has brought in have been able to contribute a bit more than they have? After all, they they are better recruits, supposedly competing for time against lesser players (RE's teams were talented enough to win bowl games, P's teams are so talent deficient they cannot even make it to bowl games). How do they possibly resolve this?

For the record, I have my six seats, purchased an additional seven through the three game deals that include Michigan and I plan on making it to every game. I will root like hell for the kids in blue with a sliver of a husky's face on their helmets and hope for wins in every game. Considering what I've heard about the defense, we should, at a minimum have a shot in each game. Considering what I've heard about the offensive line play (and I am still at a loss as to how this got so bad so quickly as even a bonobo should have been able to figure out how to at least on occasion get a large body on one of our opponents) it is quite possible that our offense will be far too similar to what it had been recently.





Damn. You are getting in the middle of my brain ... And I'm still very optimistic for this year. For the record, again, I've switched my opinion on Warde Manual. I'm hopeful that he's going to be good.
 
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The most irrational thing I've seen on the football forum recently was the call to add a kid one week before kickoff solely because we have an open scholarship. Your very rational response was as follows:



Personally I expected someone who actually played college football (and during quite a long time on the old board would never cease to point this out) to place more value in the practice time that was missed by said prospect (unless somehow you are willing to claim that the few weeks the kids did get under their belts this summer were meaningless).

My stance on this specific situation is this, there isn't enough talent in state to build a quality FCS program. Unlike many more geographically fortunate schools we need to build the lion's share of our roster from elsewhere. At the same time all of the work that was invested during the first decade of this century has been pissed away at breakneck speed primarily due to some misguided need to placate local coaches.

I don't dislike Warde. I would in fact wager that there are few here who hold him in as high esteem as I do. I am beyond the point of no return with P (and GDL for that matter) however. I cannot believe that they have turned me against them as thoroughly as they have as quickly as they have. I see them slowly, quietly killing this program. It is kind of like Prometheus, with a bird of prey pecking away at his entrails, unfortunately for us, the vital organs wont regenerate. Left to P's devices our program will disappear within a few years and almost nobody outside of a zip code that begins with 06 will be able to recall that we did have a football program. This is why I feel as i do about the current head coach (and his side kick) and why I am infuriated at any defense of the man. The first thing out of the mouth of P's defender's is that he is recruiting so much better than anything we've seen. The second is on the lack of talent he has to work with. Where I get confused on these arguments is here:
We made it to bowl games (and even beat a pretty good South Carolina team) facing better BE competition during RE's last four years here yet each of those teams had numerous contributors who were not long into the program. If P's recruiting is superior (or even equal) to that of his predecessor, shouldn't at least some of the kids he has brought in have been able to contribute a bit more than they have? After all, they they are better recruits, supposedly competing for time against lesser players (RE's teams were talented enough to win bowl games, P's teams are so talent deficient they cannot even make it to bowl games). How do they possibly resolve this?

For the record, I have my six seats, purchased an additional seven through the three game deals that include Michigan and I plan on making it to every game. I will root like hell for the kids in blue with a sliver of a husky's face on their helmets and hope for wins in every game. Considering what I've heard about the defense, we should, at a minimum have a shot in each game. Considering what I've heard about the offensive line play (and I am still at a loss as to how this got so bad so quickly as even a bonobo should have been able to figure out how to at least on occasion get a large body on one of our opponents) it is quite possible that our offense will be far too similar to what it had been recently.

So you would rather go into the season with 84 scholarship players on the roster instead of 85. I would not. I can imagine that you would, since Randy Edsall routinely would look for walk ons to award scholarships, rather than use prep schools as an assist to building a roster.

I think that perhaps if you have a real significant difficulty local high school football coaches, and whatever you think their influence is on this football program, you may want to discuss it with the chairman of the UCONN BOT. Maybe you know him personally even. I'm sure he'd be happy to answer questions and concerns if you were to approach him. You sure as hell aren't going to do anything but create piss and wind by discussing such things with me, in a forum like this.

While I think Hathaway was a fool, and was probably rushed into the hire of Pasqualoni, it was Chuck Neinas' headhunting that found Pasqualoni, not the CT high school football coaches who nominated him, unless you want to come out right here and say that Neinas' firm identified Pasqualoni by consulting a few CT high school football coaches. Do you want to say that? Do you know Chuck? DId his firm find Pasqualoni by consulting the high school coaches in CT?

Randy Edsall's offense benefitted greatly from having a handful of multiple year starters on the offensive line. His defense worked because he was able to recruit players with effective speed. He won enough to be successful, and won bowl games yes. I've never tried to take anything away from Edsall, I've made myself clear in the past, that I think Edsall had a ceiling with his program, and we had hit it. I had hoped that he would be able to change and adapt to continue to improve. I didn't want him to leave, all I wanted was change so that we could improve. I wrote it. It's out there.

As for Pasqualoni, the guy has faults as a head coach, that were on clear display over the past 2 years. He's also accomplished a lot in his career, and it's a disservice to try to minimize it. Just like with Edsall, I'd prefer for him to stay and improve, rather than leave. Because, changing head coaches for a college football program, is not something that should happen often, and quickly, and going through 2 head coaches in less than 2 years would be devastating to this program - my opinion. I"m sure you probably think different.

As for Warde Manuel, I can only assume that you have deep basketball ties or something to the athletic department, becuase I really don't know any football people that don't respect the guy 100%, certainly nobody that's had to change their mind about him one way or the other about anything football related.

As for the rest, you'll get your answers this year. This is no longer Randy Edsall's program, in any way shape or form. This is Pasqualoni's program now in 2013, and he'll either succeed or go down with it.


BTW: I'm not shy in saying it, in that I wonder what you really are capable of thought wise, because, nowhere, no how, anywhere has anyone suggested that a full 1A squad could be built with only CT players. Examination of our own roster, as compared to Edsall's roster, shows that there is any difference at all really in the number of players from CT vs those from out of state. The difference, is that we're getting some of the more visibile and sought after players in the past 2 seasons. I really can't see how anyone with the ability to critically evaluate something would be able to argue otherwise.

And Skip Holtz did a pretty good job of building an FCS program with many in-state players, as did Tom Jackson. The only thing that lacked in the past - if you talke to a guy like Lou Holtz - who you can find in restaurants in CT - have you ever talked to Lou? THe only lacking back then, was the commitment from the university to have a top athletic department. Jim and Geno changed that through basketball, and Edsall, and now Pasqualoni are the beneficiaries.

Do you know Steve Spagnuolo? When was the last time you talked to him? You know he coached at UCONN and played at Springfield right? Talk to him about what he thinks about recruiting and pulling talent of CT, New England and the northeast.

I don't know you from a hole in the wall, and I don't really care to. Cheer for the players, and don't bitch at me about the coaches or recruiting.

I think Pasqualoni is light years ahead of Edsall when it comes to building and running a 1A football program, and you don't. Got it.
 

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The most irrational thing I've seen on the football forum recently was the call to add a kid one week before kickoff solely because we have an open scholarship. Your very rational response was as follows:



Personally I expected someone who actually played college football (and during quite a long time on the old board would never cease to point this out) to place more value in the practice time that was missed by said prospect (unless somehow you are willing to claim that the few weeks the kids did get under their belts this summer were meaningless).

My stance on this specific situation is this, there isn't enough talent in state to build a quality FCS program. Unlike many more geographically fortunate schools we need to build the lion's share of our roster from elsewhere. At the same time all of the work that was invested during the first decade of this century has been pissed away at breakneck speed primarily due to some misguided need to placate local coaches.

I don't dislike Warde. I would in fact wager that there are few here who hold him in as high esteem as I do. I am beyond the point of no return with P (and GDL for that matter) however. I cannot believe that they have turned me against them as thoroughly as they have as quickly as they have. I see them slowly, quietly killing this program. It is kind of like Prometheus, with a bird of prey pecking away at his entrails, unfortunately for us, the vital organs wont regenerate. Left to P's devices our program will disappear within a few years and almost nobody outside of a zip code that begins with 06 will be able to recall that we did have a football program. This is why I feel as i do about the current head coach (and his side kick) and why I am infuriated at any defense of the man. The first thing out of the mouth of P's defender's is that he is recruiting so much better than anything we've seen. The second is on the lack of talent he has to work with. Where I get confused on these arguments is here:
We made it to bowl games (and even beat a pretty good South Carolina team) facing better BE competition during RE's last four years here yet each of those teams had numerous contributors who were not long into the program. If P's recruiting is superior (or even equal) to that of his predecessor, shouldn't at least some of the kids he has brought in have been able to contribute a bit more than they have? After all, they they are better recruits, supposedly competing for time against lesser players (RE's teams were talented enough to win bowl games, P's teams are so talent deficient they cannot even make it to bowl games). How do they possibly resolve this?

For the record, I have my six seats, purchased an additional seven through the three game deals that include Michigan and I plan on making it to every game. I will root like hell for the kids in blue with a sliver of a husky's face on their helmets and hope for wins in every game. Considering what I've heard about the defense, we should, at a minimum have a shot in each game. Considering what I've heard about the offensive line play (and I am still at a loss as to how this got so bad so quickly as even a bonobo should have been able to figure out how to at least on occasion get a large body on one of our opponents) it is quite possible that our offense will be far too similar to what it had been recently.



So you would rather go into the season with 84 scholarship players on the roster instead of 85. I would not. I can imagine that you would, since Randy Edsall routinely would look for walk ons to award scholarships, rather than use prep schools as an assist to building a roster.

I think that perhaps if you have a real significant difficulty local high school football coaches, and whatever you think their influence is on this football program, you may want to discuss it with the chairman of the UCONN BOT. Maybe you know him personally even. I'm sure he'd be happy to answer questions and concerns if you were to approach him. You sure as hell aren't going to do anything but create piss and wind by discussing such things with me, in a forum like this.

While I think Hathaway was a fool, and was probably rushed into the hire of Pasqualoni, it was Chuck Neinas' headhunting that found Pasqualoni, not the CT high school football coaches who nominated him, unless you want to come out right here and say that Neinas' firm identified Pasqualoni by consulting a few CT high school football coaches. Do you want to say that? Do you know Chuck? DId his firm find Pasqualoni by consulting the high school coaches in CT?

Randy Edsall's offense benefitted greatly from having a handful of multiple year starters on the offensive line. His defense worked because he was able to recruit players with effective speed. He won enough to be successful, and won bowl games yes. I've never tried to take anything away from Edsall, I've made myself clear in the past, that I think Edsall had a ceiling with his program, and we had hit it. I had hoped that he would be able to change and adapt to continue to improve. I didn't want him to leave, all I wanted was change so that we could improve. I wrote it. It's out there.

As for Pasqualoni, the guy has faults as a head coach, that were on clear display over the past 2 years. He's also accomplished a lot in his career, and it's a disservice to try to minimize it. Just like with Edsall, I'd prefer for him to stay and improve, rather than leave. Because, changing head coaches for a college football program, is not something that should happen often, and quickly, and going through 2 head coaches in less than 2 years would be devastating to this program - my opinion. I"m sure you probably think different.

As for Warde Manuel, I can only assume that you have deep basketball ties or something to the athletic department, becuase I really don't know any football people that don't respect the guy 100%, certainly nobody that's had to change their mind about him one way or the other about anything football related.

As for the rest, you'll get your answers this year. This is no longer Randy Edsall's program, in any way shape or form. This is Pasqualoni's program now in 2013, and he'll either succeed or go down with it.


BTW: I'm not shy in saying it, in that I wonder what you really are capable of thought wise, because, nowhere, no how, anywhere has anyone suggested that a full 1A squad could be built with only CT players. Examination of our own roster, as compared to Edsall's roster, shows that there is any difference at all really in the number of players from CT vs those from out of state. The difference, is that we're getting some of the more visibile and sought after players in the past 2 seasons. I really can't see how anyone with the ability to critically evaluate something would be able to argue otherwise.

And Skip Holtz did a pretty good job of building an FCS program with many in-state players, as did Tom Jackson. The only thing that lacked in the past - if you talke to a guy like Lou Holtz - who you can find in restaurants in CT - have you ever talked to Lou? THe only lacking back then, was the commitment from the university to have a top athletic department. Jim and Geno changed that through basketball, and Edsall, and now Pasqualoni are the beneficiaries.

Do you know Steve Spagnuolo? When was the last time you talked to him? You know he coached at UCONN and played at Springfield right? Talk to him about what he thinks about recruiting and pulling talent of CT, New England and the northeast.

I don't know you from a hole in the wall, and I don't really care to. Cheer for the players, and don't bitch at me about the coaches or recruiting.

I think Pasqualoni is light years ahead of Edsall when it comes to building and running a 1A football program, and you don't. Got it.


Sh it like this makes me want to figure out how to use Twitter.
 
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PP?

I'm not a fan. We have key skill positions that are woefully lacking depth. Our formidable OLine has flatlined with GDL ... With, I believe, more talented kids. With Foley on the staff. But, I think solid QB play in CFB can be transformational & Whitmer may come around. Plus the kids.

I thought HCRE did a wonderful job; that's not inconsistent with your discussion of a ceiling. So ... Long live the new King.

Where I really scratch my head is the Final 2 from the Neinas list: PP & Whipple.

What? I agree with the notion that NE has birthed lots of coaching talent. Look broadly. That's who Hathaway came down to? Simply inconceivable.
 
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The funny thing about making a hire, is that the person you might want to hire, actually has to want the job. As your scratching your head, flip the coin and ask yourself who was knocking down the doors to take over what Randy Edsall had built.
 
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See ... Many here think we are the level standard with Louisville in football. Charlie Strong, I agree, wasn't coming here.

But you could have been ultra creative. That's not the PP hire.
 
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Edsall left, Hathaway is gone and he hired P. P will either win (my preference cause like Carl pointed out changing coaches so quickly could set the program back further) or be gone. Conference realignment has done us no favors. All the programs in our region we competed for recruits against are now part of the "Power 5" and we are not. That cannot be understated as we move forward.

That said no excuses if P can't/doesn't win this year he will likely be gone, and no one should be shedding tears for him. Come on Thursday 8/29.
 
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See ... Many here think we are the level standard with Louisville in football. Charlie Strong, I agree, wasn't coming here.

But you could have been ultra creative. That's not the PP hire.

But Pudge, Hathaway did what he did. That part is over. P either wins or he is gone, then we see how creative Warde can get.

Hathaway was probably the worst thing that happened to our overall atheltic program. Big Lou was building all kinds of momentum and then Hathaway happened. Luckily we had great coaches in Calhoun and Auriema and a solid one in Edsall. Hathaway only got one big hire, thank God for that.
 

FfldCntyFan

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Carl,

You are all over the place so it would be better to respond to a few points, in order of what I view as priority, without copying your entire post.

1 - Try reading what I posted about my feelings for WM again. I still believe that he was a terrific hire and I doubt that you will find many people anywhere, especially on the Boneyard, who hold him is as high esteem as I do. If, after re-reading you again comment about my 'hatred' for our current AD, it will be obvious that comprehension is not one of your strengths.

2 - Lagow was a QB. His presence (while he was still on the roster) did not provide an additional body in the trenches, as a receiver or defensive back or for special teams. Please tell me in specifics how having that extra body became necessary after he left if it was not necessary while he was here? After that explanation, please add one on the importance of the few weeks summer practice that the team had under their belt as the time Lagow departed (I know you can do this, after all you did play in the Yankee Conference).

3 - Neinas did not provide the name Paul Pasqualoni. Before you throw out facts, you may want to check these facts. The only possible role Chuck Neinas played in P's (which was purely speculation on my part, which I posted at length on the old board) was that Hathaway's flight to Dallas to interview McGhee (Neinas' recommendation) gave Hathaway the opportunity to secretly interview Pasqualoni (a hire he never would have been able to make if , there was available, credible information on this before he pulled the trigger.

4 - While we are on the subject of fact checking, check out how many multiple year offensive line starters we had in 2011 (and then compare it to the prior four-five years). After all you did claim in your post that Edsall had the benefit of having this.
 
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PP?

I'm not a fan. We have key skill positions that are woefully lacking depth. Our formidable OLine has flatlined with GDL ... With, I believe, more talented kids. With Foley on the staff. But, I think solid QB play in CFB can be transformational & Whitmer may come around. Plus the kids.

I thought HCRE did a wonderful job; that's not inconsistent with your discussion of a ceiling. So ... Long live the new King.

Where I really scratch my head is the Final 2 from the Neinas list: PP & Whipple.

What? I agree with the notion that NE has birthed lots of coaching talent. Look broadly. That's who Hathaway came down to? Simply inconceivable.
A couple of thoughts...we have always been woefully lacking in depth at skill positions except running back where we've had lots of good players going back to the beginnings of the upgrade. that we really don't have much there is a total mystery. I like McCombs, but for 2 years we've had nothing behind him.
I'm inclined to give P the benefit of the doubt in 2011. The quarterback cupboard was bare and not really from his doing. Losing Endres really hurt the program. I have to think that team with Endres under center wins at least 2 games maybe more than we won. And losing the running back from USC hurt too. With the qbs we had we really had to play fairly conservative football and hope for the Defense to bail us out. Should have won a couple of games, none the less, Vandy and Western Bleeping Michigan, but new staff, new approach new quarterback new running back it wasn't unexpected. Last year though, was far far worse even if the record was similar. The oline didn't just flat line, it virtually disappeared. The offense was both predictable and bad. I think there was a theory behind Hathaway's selection of Pasqualoni. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I think the goal was to stabilize the program for a period of years assuming P would be there for 4-5 years then bring in the next big thing. It didn't work, which makes it worse. I don't think we need Whitmer to be Tom Brady. We just need him to be a run of the mill BCS quarterback and this team could be pretty good.
 
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I lived not to far (up until last month) from where Lagow played. I saw him play, not really impressive. If UConn wants some real Texas talent, they need to scout Allen, TX. They win the state title or are in the hunt consistently.
 
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A couple of thoughts...we have always been woefully lacking in depth at skill positions except running back where we've had lots of good players going back to the beginnings of the upgrade. that we really don't have much there is a total mystery. I like McCombs, but for 2 years we've had nothing behind him.
I'm inclined to give P the benefit of the doubt in 2011. The quarterback cupboard was bare and not really from his doing. Losing Endres really hurt the program. I have to think that team with Endres under center wins at least 2 games maybe more than we won. And losing the running back from USC hurt too. With the qbs we had we really had to play fairly conservative football and hope for the Defense to bail us out. Should have won a couple of games, none the less, Vandy and Western Bleeping Michigan, but new staff, new approach new quarterback new running back it wasn't unexpected. Last year though, was far far worse even if the record was similar. The oline didn't just flat line, it virtually disappeared. The offense was both predictable and bad. I think there was a theory behind Hathaway's selection of Pasqualoni. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I think the goal was to stabilize the program for a period of years assuming P would be there for 4-5 years then bring in the next big thing. It didn't work, which makes it worse. I don't think we need Whitmer to be Tom Brady. We just need him to be a run of the mill BCS quarterback and this team could be pretty good.

UConn needs Whitmer to be a lot better than a run-of-the-mill QB. He needs to instill some sort of effective passing game for the Huskies to be good. If this team can't throw, they won't score and then 5-7 for past two years will be the good old days. No passing = losing.
 
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UConn needs Whitmer to be a lot better than a run-of-the-mill QB. He needs to instill some sort of effective passing game for the Huskies to be good. If this team can't throw, they won't score and then 5-7 for past two years will be the good old days. No passing = losing.
then we're not going to be equal to last year. Look, I'm not saying he doesn't need to be solid, but he can't rank 92nd out of 116 like he did last year. If he ranks in the 70s like Nova from Rutgers, with 22 touchdowns instead of 9, we win 8-9 games. Nova's stats were really close to Whitmer's. Completions N228/331, W 202/308, %N57 W57.8, Yards N2695W2659, YPC N6.9 W7.4 You get the picture. They both had 16 picks even. the difference was that Whitmer only had 9 tds to 22 and he was sacked 33 times to 11. those numbers to me speak to a porous offensive line as much as they do anything else. But I think it shows that we don't need Brady, we just need an average quarterback. That's the difference between 5-7 and 9-3.
 
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