Lady Vols Board

[BroadwayVa]

Basketball has some basic fairly simple plays revolving around setting screens and moving off them both with the ball and without. The 'dark ages' involved the running of one of these plays and if it didn't work running another and another until you got one that did work and resulted in an open shot, or you ran out of time and heaved the ball at the basket in desperation. Alternatively you had a very good player that just went at it one on five and scored.
As basketball has evolved, new forms of offense have evolved to have options on each basic play, with the offense reacting in set ways depending on how the defense reacts at each step of the play. This works better because it doesn't depend on the defense making a 'mistake' but it also takes more coaching and basketball IQ because the player is not just performing a set move. It also works better as it can involve a continuous series of plays all flowing together and giving the defense no chance to reset. In its basic form it involves two players, playing off each other and their two defenders (pick and pop, pick and role.) Tara runs a triangle offense that takes in as the name suggests three primary players, and Geno has expanded this to be a choreography of five players all in 'motion' during the possession. When it works well it is beautiful to watch, when it doesn't ...

The principles of moving the ball into the post area and out, and from side to side is true for every type of offense as that movement puts stress on the defense and creates openings for the offense, and the faster the ball moves the better. So Holly saying that they need the ball going in to the post isn't in and of itself a 'dark ages' comment.

What has been a problem for TN for a long time now is that they have not seemed to teach the more complex varieties of offense and rely heavily on the simple basic plays that have been around since the beginning, and on individual players to create their own shots. With a consistent and brilliant player like Parker the results cover up the lack of complexity, with the occasional brilliance of a Simmons you get occasionally good results and occasional clunkers. And against good defenses with good players it requires a brilliant player to succeed consistently.

Geno uses fundamentals. Basic basketball fundamentals--passing, dribbling, catching, shooting, and DEFENSE.
He is hard to beat because his team sees what the Defense has to offer and uses it. On defense, one player alone is rarely used as the primary defender so the defense finds it harder to take advantage of a weak defender. The fewer "Plays" you use the harder you are to play against or scout.
Learning is an on going process in life and in Basketball.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Surely we have someone from Maine to toss in an occasional "ay-UP!"

It is uttered like the Japanese "Hai," or the Canadian "Eh," just polite ways to keep a conversation moving along agreeably.

My Mom never made it out of Ct or Mass and she Aa Ya - ed with the best Yankees. Ya hear? (Alabama). There's a Moose in the Hoose (Canadian-West and Norfolk area Va). My Mid-West Canadian relative was a Canadian Green Beret.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Y'all Noo Englanders keep comfortin' ya'selves by tellin' ya'selves ya'smarter'n others cuzza whereya live. Me, I live NorthnSouth, but come from the latter. I got sperience, n I kintellya, y'ain't gotta clue! Always knew folks wenta MissippiState what could run intellectual rings round other folks I knew wenta Harvard!

Academic learning and life skills learning are not two different things. Nor is one more superior to the other, even in Missippi State. Ya All. Or Yawl.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Thanks for 'splainin' this.

Yawl--sound like Dezi Arnez~~!!! Que Pase?(sp)

 

[BroadwayVa]

All y'all hang in there.

Isn't that redundant All y'all ?? With or without a new rope??

 

[Gus Mahler]

Isn't that redundant All y'all ?? With or without a new rope??

I was going for emphasis. It's plural of y'all. Supposedly. I never hear it in actual use.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Nice analysis!! Holly isn't Pat but "learned" from her. How well she learned is probably showing. A mentally well Pat would have evolved (I think) her game style. If you don't evolve, you die Basketball or species.

Actually, Pat's game did not evolve when she was healthy. Parker's ascendancy merely obscured Pat's lack of ability to evolve.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Actually, Pat's game did not evolve when she was healthy. Parker's ascendancy merely obscured Pat's lack of ability to evolve.

I honestly don't know if she did or didn't but one would suspect she made changes to accommodate the brash Italian from Philly. The other side of the coin is--at what point in her life in the past 30/40 years was she FULLY Mentally healthy--the disease she had often times isn't immediate. Concussions today are suspected as being the beginning of the disease that has caused her problems.
No argument, just who knows, certainly not me. I've seen many lately that have the disease today. If you take a trip down memory lane --you remember odd mental things done often that most over looked at the time.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I was going for emphasis. It's plural of y'all. Supposedly. I never hear it in actual use.

Having lived below the M-D line South and South West often times it's a displaced Yankee trying to fit in that uses All ya all.
But at times in Rural Alabama, Arkansas, Okla, Tx, La, Tenn, even Rural Va you will hear Southern spoken such that you will need some one to explain or Splain it to you.
No insult , argument intended. My mind reacts to words put into unexpected arrangement--I find jokes in un funny things.

 

[Zorro]

But the crucial question is; "Where in the world is Ericsandiego?"

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I honestly don't know if she did or didn't but one would suspect she made changes to accommodate the brash Italian from Philly. The other side of the coin is--at what point in her life in the past 30/40 years was she FULLY Mentally healthy--the disease she had often times isn't immediate. Concussions today are suspected as being the beginning of the disease that has caused her problems.
No argument, just who knows, certainly not me. I've seen many lately that have the disease today. If you take a trip down memory lane --you remember odd mental things done often that most over looked at the time.

I am unwilling to play the who knows how long ago game on this. She was who she was and then she was not anymore. It became painfully obvious the year before she stepped down. Hell, I haven't been FULLY mentally healthy since I was 5 years old; that was when I started to get educated and I started to get weird.

 

[tennparker3]

The Summitt has more discussions on other games than Volnation. While there may be a little more dislike for Geno on The Summitt board, overall people are more cordial and tend to have more in depth thoughts about our team without screaming the sky is falling. I have about 7 people on Volnation on ignore, rarely post there and so I don't see most of the nastiness. I'm a liberal so I don't always fit in with some Tennessee fans. There is one UConn fan that frequents the The Summitt and is welcomed by almost all.

 

[VFLfan]

Oh I'm a big liberal too so I definitely don't fit in with most TN fans. Right now, you don't have many on VolNation saying anything different than what Eric and many others here are saying tho. A few say we'll get better (and most certainly most teams will) but most are just tired of us playing so sucky.

 

[ed4ourgirls]

UCONN plays Kansas on Monday at 7PM EST. Not on ESPN though, I think it's on SNY.

We play K-State, not Kansas on Monday night. It's on SNY. (and probably on ESPN3 if you're outside the
SNY footprint).

 

[DobbsRover2]

The Summitt has more discussions on other games than Volnation. While there may be a little more dislike for Geno on The Summitt board, overall people are more cordial and tend to have more in depth thoughts about our team without screaming the sky is falling. I have about 7 people on Volnation on ignore, rarely post there and so I don't see most of the nastiness. I'm a liberal so I don't always fit in with some Tennessee fans. There is one UConn fan that frequents the The Summitt and is welcomed by almost all.

Wow, so you're saying Maria fell off the Summitt? That is the only way that the word "cordial" and "Summitt" could even start to be within light years proximity of each other, and though there were others more %*%(##!!*% than her, she was the ringleader of the lunatic fringe. I realize that you're referring to a kind of Southern hospitality to fellow Vols and not to UConn and Geno, but even there the Summitt was infamous for eating its own children.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Having lived below the M-D line South and South West often times it's a displaced Yankee trying to fit in that uses All ya all.
But at times in Rural Alabama, Arkansas, Okla, Tx, La, Tenn, even Rural Va you will hear Southern spoken such that you will need some one to explain or Splain it to you.
No insult , argument intended. My mind reacts to words put into unexpected arrangement--I find jokes in un funny things.

Well, good! It was intended to be a joke! FYI: I don't use the term, either.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Actually, Pat's game did not evolve when she was healthy. Parker's ascendancy merely obscured Pat's lack of ability to evolve.

I think that she recognized that - hence the hot tub party with Harry P. I also think that by then it was too late.

 

[triaddukefan]

1995 for me alth0ugh some could make a good argument for a couple of years earlier.

But ....

Absolutely. Warlick is using the same outdated "pound it into the posts and rebound" game plan that Summitt used. A Warlick quote from the post game presser -"Anybody that knows Tennessee knows that we play inside-out, and our posts are going to touch the basketball," Tennessee coach Holly Warlick said. "They did tonight . . . . "

It worked for Summitt during the dark ages of WCBB when competition was scarce but the game has evolved. Is it possible that Summitt's legacy will be UT's downfall?

So it apparently still worked after the dark ages ended.... they (tenn) won 5 titles after 1995 So I guess the dark ages must have ended in 2008 ????

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I think that she recognized that - hence the hot tub party with Harry P. I also think that by then it was too late.

Is that the reason he wore that ridiculous tie?

 

[trb123]

But ....





So it apparently still worked after the dark ages ended.... they (tenn) won 5 titles after 1995 So I guess the dark ages must have ended in 2008 ????

True. The Empire struck back from time to time. Finally our Jedi returned in full glory.

And this afternoon, we beat Houston 20-17.

 

[HuskyNan]

And this afternoon, we beat Houston 20-17.

Great win. A Timely and Important win. The football team needs to be a someone in order for UConn to get into a Power 5 league.

 

[Geno-ista]

Classic!

 

[DobbsRover2]

True. The Empire struck back from time to time. Finally our Jedi returned in full glory.

And this afternoon, we beat Houston 20-17.

Oh wow, that's almost as big as beating ND. As to UConn WCBB beating Houston, I think they could bring back the original team from 1974-75 to play and the Huskies would still have to give points on the betting line.

 

[Kibitzer]

Great win. A Timely and Important win. The football team needs to be a someone in order for UConn to get into a Power 5 league.

They also need to have thousands of someones filling the seats at the Rent

 

[Huskies Rule]

I simply don't buy the "but we'll get better by the end of the year" thing. The only "really" new part on the team is Cooper. Deshields had an entire year to sit out and watch. This is Russell's 3rd year. Every single starter on the Tenn roster has at least 1 year experience except for Cooper. AND the team went to Italy or something this year to bond and play some games, right?

So really, Tenn should be ahead of every other team out there, not behind them. To say "but we will improve loads by the end of the year". Riiiight. So will UCONN, ND, Baylor (who by the way is acclimating may more pieces than Tenn), as well as SC (who is far more experienced than most teams out there).

I think (just my opinion) that some of the frustration for Tenn fans is that they look at the roster and see all the players who were ranked super high coming out of HS, and they think that makes them a FF team. It simply doesn't, and when you have a hobbled Diamond to go along with coaching that is still working from a style drawn from the 80's and 90's (as Mil, Vctw, and UCMiami pointed out), it's not a recipe for elite success. You simply cannot run offense that consists mainly of dribble around the perimeter, make a few passes for the 1st 10 seconds of the shot clock, then jack up a shot, miss, and expect your bigs to crash the boards and put back a score.

Will they be relevant? Sure. Just like in Pat's years, they have enough talent to be in the top 10. Will they win a NC? Not at all - can't do it against other elite teams with equal talent but better coaching.

Tennessee has great individual talent- emphasis on the word individual. Watching them barely escape Penn State and Syracuse at Thompson-Boling, their offense seems disjointed and inefficient. Way too much consisted of trying to find Russell down low, with generally poor ball movement and few screens set. Part of that may be because they sub in 3 kids at a time, like changing hockey lines, resulting in little offensive flow and continuity. Part of that may also be that Holly Warlick, according to a really large number of disgruntled fans on VolNation, is in over her head, is too chummy with her players, doesn't push them hard enough, and doesn't know how to teach offense.

With 7 high school all-americans on the roster, I expected much more from this team. I think it will take more than Warlick is capable of to bring out the best in this bunch of individuals and turn them into a team, not just an all-star roster. I see them finishing between 10-15, based pretty much solely on their high level of talent.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

Tennessee has great individual talent- emphasis on the word individual. Watching them barely escape Penn State and Syracuse at Thompson-Boling, their offense seems disjointed and inefficient. Way too much consisted of trying to find Russell down low, with generally poor ball movement and few screens set. Part of that may be because they sub in 3 kids at a time, like changing hockey lines, resulting in little offensive flow and continuity. Part of that may also be that Holly Warlick, according to a really large number of disgruntled fans on VolNation, is in over her head, is too chummy with her players, doesn't push them hard enough, and doesn't know how to teach offense.

With 7 high school all-americans on the roster, I expected much more from this team. I think it will take more than Warlick is capable of to bring out the best in this bunch of individuals and turn them into a team, not just an all-star roster. I see them finishing between 10-15, based pretty much solely on their high level of talent.

Gotta disagree in part - most of these athletic people are very poor shooters. They are not great individual talents in a basketball talent sense of talent. Just aren't.

 

[j66kicker]

I think that she recognized that - hence the hot tub party with Harry P. I also think that by then it was too late.

Courtesy of Biff...

 

[Zorro]

Classic Biffery!

 

[j66kicker]

Classic Biffery!

Follow-up Biffery...

 

[Bayareahusky]

I am late to this thread, but I must say that I really enjoy the Lady Vol fans..... for their passion, their fervor, their spirit and their knowledge of the game..... I am especially thankful for our TN friends here on this board, they are so knowledgable, and add depth of knowledge and variety of opinion..... I steer clear of The Summitt, last time I looked it was a bit extreme, but I do participate on Vol Nation, where everyone is a bit more reasonable..... I expect fanbases to be blindly partisan..... the other team and their fans are idiots it is all OK..... the only time I have a problem with them or any other site is when accusations are thrown out without any factual backup, and the sexual innuendo that occasionally pops up, particularly in relation to our head coach..... but I find the TN fans by and large to be a good lot of folks.... in my travels around the country (mostly in the west) I have met my fair share of orange clad fans, and it is always accompanied by a healthy spirited discussion about UT, UC, and the overall picture in WCBB...... so as it relates to this thread, i love the UT fans for their love of the game, and participation in knowledgable discussion at the highest rate, probably, in the country.