KO Making Progress

[CL82]

let's play contrarian

OUR school, while hurting from a number of financial setbacks in sports, decided NOT to honor a contract. You can say rule violations + this and that ... but in 10 other cases most of us can cite, NCAA coaches did far worse and got paid. We didn't pay him because of our sour situation. And Yes .,.. I would be pissed and hire the best attorney. The school has not tried, in any meaningful way, to achieve a resolution. For ONE thing, we all should think, this has placed a cloud over a 35 year period of Men's BB that should be nothing but rainbow heaven. Important past players are not happy. I say we should have found a mediation point.

And then let go with your bleeting.

Is even one of the sentences in your post accurate? If there was one, I couldn't find it.

Well let's start here. Please name the 10 coaches who received three year show cause penalties and then had their schools paid their contracts notwithstanding that fact that NCAA violations were a stated cause for termination under the contract.

I'll wait. (Here's a pro tip for you: If you are going to be sanctimonious, at least be accurate, otherwise it is a profoundly bad look.)

 

[WestHartHusk]

If he's still suing UConn then I don't give two shytes about him. Felt that way about the crew women as well.

Was about to type this, sans the crew team dig cuz why.

 

[CL82]

I don’t think KO is ever gone analyze the case in any logical way or accept realty. It’s never going to happen. In this extent he’s basically an empty vessel for his attorney to sail in circles.

So it's not behind him.

 

[Jbirdp5]

I think this is definitely big time on the Risk Dashboard for college programs. Chief couldn’t believe the denial some people were in when this first came up and the events since then, just reinforces the threat. They are signing kids, have deep pockets, have big name stakeholders and regardless of your personal feelings are connecting with the kids. If you don’t think this is top shelf newsworthy you are in deep quicksand denial about the threat. KO got in over his head in a legal case with an attorney still trying to save face from his miscues, however I do appreciate KO raising from that mess (even though it’s technically still ongoing) and charting a more productive course for himself.

Chief what does the overtime teams schedule look like? Are they playing against aau and high school teams? Will they have more then 1 team?

 

[EricLA]

That's as dumb a post as I've seen in a while. I am "acting like Ollie did something to me personally and owes me $10M"? Just stupid. If he did something to me personally and owed me $10M, I'd be reacting much differently. Talk about a histrionic statement. I get if someone disagrees with me, but sheesh.

 

[Chief00]

Chief what does the overtime teams schedule look like? Are they playing against aau and high school teams? Will they have more then 1 team?

There are

Chief what does the overtime teams schedule look like? Are they playing against aau and high school teams? Will they have more then 1 team?

There will be about 30 players divide up into teams that will play each other. They will also play prep teams.

 

[HooperScooper]

let's play contrarian

OUR school, while hurting from a number of financial setbacks in sports, decided NOT to honor a contract. You can say rule violations + this and that ... but in 10 other cases most of us can cite, NCAA coaches did far worse and got paid. We didn't pay him because of our sour situation. And Yes .,.. I would be pissed and hire the best attorney. The school has not tried, in any meaningful way, to achieve a resolution. For ONE thing, we all should think, this has placed a cloud over a 35 year period of Men's BB that should be nothing but rainbow heaven. Important past players are not happy. I say we should have found a mediation point.

And then let go with your bleeting.

Let's play lawyer.

What were the provisions in KO's contract? Did he or did he not do something that initiated the provisions for firing with no further payments? It's hard to argue he didn't since the NCAA, a third party mentioned in the contract as the organization potentially giving the penalties, put UConn on probation with penalties and gave KO a show cause. It's irrelevant what other schools did and we also don't know what the terms were in those contracts. I don't know off hand.

There's a reason there are contracts. And both sides signed the contract voluntarily. I don't see where the grey area is.

But whatever. I wish no ill will towards KO going forward. But I do blame him for putting the program I love into hardship by not trying to do his job. I don't think there's much to argue there. It was clear as day and mentioned by many people who were close to the program and would know better than all of us.

 

[Pudge]

Let's play lawyer.

What were the provisions in KO's contract? Did he or did he not do something that initiated the provisions for firing with no further payments? It's hard to argue he didn't since the NCAA, a third party mentioned in the contract as the organization potentially giving the penalties, put UConn on probation with penalties and gave KO a show cause. It's irrelevant what other schools did and we also don't know what the terms were in those contracts. I don't know off hand.

There's a reason there are contracts. And both sides signed the contract voluntarily. I don't see where the grey area is.

But whatever. I wish no ill will towards KO going forward. But I do blame him for putting the program I love into hardship by not trying to do his job. I don't think there's much to argue there. It was clear as day and mentioned by many people who were close to the program and would know better than all of us.

and UCONN self reported the violations and, thus, found their way out of paying the guy (*with the animus of Glen Miller involved)

What's this BS about not trying to do his job? Do you try to do your job? Have you had a divorce in the quintessential moments that you had to ... advance? To me: he never had the full 24/7 composition to be a college Program Head Coach at our level. That was a misjudgment of several people ... including our beloved JC. He obviously HAS a brilliant component of HC: he found a way to get 8 guys to play the roles to win a National Championship. I would say there are about 350 guys a year that don't have that makeup in MBB. KO devolution seemed like a Perfect Storm to me: but quite frankly, I'm tired of knuckleheads continuously dismissing him. He will forever be a coach that won. a National Championship. Brad Stevens never did. Look around?

If you can smile listening to Jim Calhoun say "not one dime back" ... I can say KO didn't really get the money he deserved. I think (since you reference "close to the program") there are key stakeholders that are important to MBB at UCONN that think KO didn't get a fair offer to exit. I know this is true.

 

[Pudge]

Is even one of the sentences in your post accurate? If there was one, I couldn't find it.

Well let's start here. Please name the 10 coaches who received three year show cause penalties and then had their schools paid their contracts notwithstanding that fact that NCAA violations were a stated cause for termination under the contract.

I'll wait. (Here's a pro tip for you: If you are going to be sanctimonious, at least be accurate, otherwise it is a profoundly bad look.)

O

Isn't it nice that a major State University can self-report to the NCAA violations ... initiating that proceeding that causes the show cause. You phony.

In the last two weeks, in an entirely different matter, I found UCONN telling a conflicted area that they WERE the State of Connecticut with 50 attorneys in the back room ready to fight for their position. Anyone see the Power ... the Conflict. They should have done a simple face-saving. And the wise professionals amongst us know ... Ollie would have gotten 10 cents on the dollar and slunked off sheepishly. But they didn't ...

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Can i play conspiracy kitty for a second? Is there any chance KO hiring Gomes to be his assistant is a intentional slight to Calhoun? I'm not sure Calhoun would give two (We got Emeka and Caron, they’re not bad), but strange out of all the ex-pros that is the one he landed with. Im sure theres some connection due to CT but still!

I would have Liked this post if you'd wondered if perhaps KO hired Ryan Gomes so that he'd never have to say, "I forked up."

Overall, this is quite a thread. I have an odd sense that Chief's comments & Likes are being offered in multiple frames of mind or being written by two different people, and that some folks are reprising old roles across a number of old viewpoints and positions.

 

[Chief00]

So it's not behind him.

Kevin is not going to impassionately analyze the merits of his case. For the same reason, he’s not going to make the connection that Jim Calhoun being at nearly every practice and game his first two years as coach and giving him pain in the neck feedback, might have something to do with KO winning the 2014 championship. That split happen first and the loses and mess followed. Ego and it’s not KO’s thing to figure all that out.

Having said that with the right guys, KO can bring something to the table. In OT Elite he’s not going to have to run a college program with rules, planning or even much X’s and O’s. He can show up at the gym and then play golf and go out. He’s not going to have to live it 24/7 like a college coach. The games are just glamorized NBA tryouts. There are big time investors and stakeholders and they are apparently paying far more than multi times the minimum of $100k a year in some cases. When the kids talk and some are getting vastly different amounts that could unsettle things?

But, unfortunately it may be the future until we see how these kids were exploited too but just using another model. After-all the investors returns are coming from someone’s value?

Calhoun created a players brotherhood at UConn and ironically their loyalty to Kevin (especially players of that era) is basically all that remains of the possibility KO gets a dime back from his case. I am uncertain what value Dave B places on that? Probably not as much as he should from KO’s perspective - LOL

 

[freescooter]

Pudge is right about one thing in all this. Ollie never had the composition to be a major college head coach. In a sense, I think he was partly lucky, after all the other finalist was a lower seed than UConn and we played the Regional in New York in front of a pretty rabid home crowd, partly his rah rah style connected with the players who felt dissed by the NCAA over their ban, and partly he took over a very talented group particularly in the backcourt. But he was not a talent evaluator nor a recruiter. Didn’t work at his craft. And he did violate NCAA rules. The self reporting is nonsense. If you are aware of a violation and ignore it, you can face even more serious penalties, and UConn had a recent Memory of a fairly severe penalty, one might think, which likely made them hyper vigilant on that score.

 

[CL82]

O

Isn't it nice that a major State University can self-report to the NCAA violations ... initiating that proceeding that causes the show cause. You phony.

In the last two weeks, in an entirely different matter, I found UCONN telling a conflicted area that they WERE the State of Connecticut with 50 attorneys in the back room ready to fight for their position. Anyone see the Power ... the Conflict. They should have done a simple face-saving. And the wise professionals amongst us know ... Ollie would have gotten 10 cents on the dollar and slunked off sheepishly. But they didn't ...

So not only did you not come up with 10 instances of coaches who received a three-year show cause penalty and still were paid by their institutions, you could not come up with even one. I guess your claim that you could was “phony.”

Perhaps it’s time you “stop your bleating.”

 

[mauconnfan]

Pudge is right about one thing in all this. Ollie never had the composition to be a major college head coach. In a sense, I think he was partly lucky, after all the other finalist was a lower seed than UConn and we played the Regional in New York in front of a pretty rabid home crowd, partly his rah rah style connected with the players who felt dissed by the NCAA over their ban, and partly he took over a very talented group particularly in the backcourt. But he was not a talent evaluator nor a recruiter. Didn’t work at his craft. And he did violate NCAA rules. The self reporting is nonsense. If you are aware of a violation and ignore it, you can face even more serious penalties, and UConn had a recent Memory of a fairly severe penalty, one might think, which likely made them hyper vigilant on that score.

He proved he could play at UConn and be part of the building of a great program as a 4 year player.

He proved he could coach anyone doubting that after the first 2 years are just hating. Also as an assistant he was part of making what you called a very talented backcourt.

He proved he could frustrate and disappoint a program of such greatness by resting on his laurels. He ended badly.

His violations, while real nonetheless, would have been laughed at by us as fans had he continued to win. They are nothing in comparison to what the even higher programs are getting away with these last few years so please, let's get off that soapbox.

He probably is deserving of some payment but I really don't know enough of the legal ramifications to talk on that but for the case of keeping our program and its history together a small, "Thanks for what you did but you also killed us, but here" MAYBE should have happened but I can't say.

He is still a Husky in my mind, screwed up without a doubt and disappointed so may including me, but wish him the best of success.

 

[Pudge]

Pudge is right about one thing in all this. Ollie never had the composition to be a major college head coach. In a sense, I think he was partly lucky, after all the other finalist was a lower seed than UConn and we played the Regional in New York in front of a pretty rabid home crowd, partly his rah rah style connected with the players who felt dissed by the NCAA over their ban, and partly he took over a very talented group particularly in the backcourt. But he was not a talent evaluator nor a recruiter. Didn’t work at his craft. And he did violate NCAA rules. The self reporting is nonsense. If you are aware of a violation and ignore it, you can face even more serious penalties, and UConn had a recent Memory of a fairly severe penalty, one might think, which likely made them hyper vigilant on that score.

give him the credit due. He played the schedule that was put together by a NCAA committee. We - at UCONN - know how friendly some of those venues can be to some. MSG was fortuitous; but it is not like a bunch of places we lost over 30 years.

He played Shabazz + Boat perfectly; won with Nolan inside; Giffey played wonderfully. All roles strategized by Ollie.

He should have had far better institutional recruiting and other college head coaching on the resume. He was raised to that position ... by? We all know.

You all are still avoiding the point: UCONN didn't want to pay him. Your opinion doesn't move me. I want Ray Allen to think the University dealt fairly with Kevin. Donny Marshall etc

 

[Fairfield_1st]

Was about to type this, sans the crew team dig cuz why.

It wasn't meant as a dig at Crew. Just pointing out that I have a hard time supporting anyone that sues the school I love and that my stance was not KO specific. Obviously there are limits to that (If I was a Baylor grad I wouldn't defend the school), but in these 2 cases I side with UConn.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

O

Isn't it nice that a major State University can self-report to the NCAA violations ... initiating that proceeding that causes the show cause. You phony.

In the last two weeks, in an entirely different matter, I found UCONN telling a conflicted area that they WERE the State of Connecticut with 50 attorneys in the back room ready to fight for their position. Anyone see the Power ... the Conflict. They should have done a simple face-saving. And the wise professionals amongst us know ... Ollie would have gotten 10 cents on the dollar and slunked off sheepishly. But they didn't ...

Without knowing the details of this all, if Ollie would have accepted $1M to make this all go away, I can almost guarantee that this would all be done with. Your whole premise is very skewed and resting on logic that does not hold up to basic scrutiny. That of course ignores the fact that the violations were obviously true since he received a show-cause. That doesn't change that UConn self-reporting was a business decision, but Ollie signed a contract with a clause that entitled him to nothing if he did exactly what he did. The naivety of those with your point of view here never ceases to amaze me.

 

[CL82]

His violations, while real nonetheless, would have been laughed at by us as fans had he continued to win.

So Mau do you think any program in America would continue to employ him after the NCAA issued a three year show cause? Personally I would not laugh at paying a coach $11 million who was effectively barred from coaching. Do you feel differently?

 

[Pudge]

Without knowing the details of this all, if Ollie would have accepted $1M to make this all go away, I can almost guarantee that this would all be done with. Your whole premise is very skewed and resting on logic that does not hold up to basic scrutiny. That of course ignores the fact that the violations were obviously true since he received a show-cause. That doesn't change that UConn self-reporting was a business decision, but Ollie signed a contract with a clause that entitled him to nothing if he did exactly what he did. The naivety of those with your point of view here never ceases to amaze me.

AGREED

That's not what UCONN did. And I think - while in their nice little 4000 sf homes surrounding campus, the administration and attorneys feel they acted in the best interests of the institution. I think this ignores the soulful brotherhood of what developed through Calhoun's early climb. And there is a cost that no recently placed senior University administrator feels. It was handled poorly ... and that continues.

 

[CL82]

AGREED

That's not what UCONN did. And I think - while in their nice little 4000 sf homes surrounding campus, the administration and attorneys feel they acted in the best interests of the institution. I think this ignores the soulful brotherhood of what developed through Calhoun's early climb. And there is a cost that no recently placed senior University administrator feels. It was handled poorly ... and that continues.

Your credibility for unsupported claims is pretty low in this thread, but what the heck, I'll ask... How, exactly, do you know UConn didn't offer a payment on Kevin's contract?

(Pro-tip: you might want to Google the early articles on this and read the quotes from KO's counsel.)

 

[WhereistheDove?]

AGREED

That's not what UCONN did. And I think - while in their nice little 4000 sf homes surrounding campus, the administration and attorneys feel they acted in the best interests of the institution. I think this ignores the soulful brotherhood of what developed through Calhoun's early climb. And there is a cost that no recently placed senior University administrator feels. It was handled poorly ... and that continues.

Huh? Is your suggestion really that Ollie would have accepted $1M to make this all end and the University would not? Really?

 

[Pudge]

Your credibility for unsupported claims is pretty low in this thread, but what the heck, I'll ask... How, exactly, do you know UConn didn't offer a payment on Kevin's contract?

(Pro-tip: you might want to Google the early articles on this and read the quotes from KO's counsel.)

His attorney would never be hired by me.

But my position is clear: UCONN took the harsh posture that they are UCONN ... and they didn't need to concede nor find the the resolution. pumped the Media. The NCAA processing. ADs and Presidents since Calhoun left have acted accordingly. There are other important stakeholders that were ignored.

since you brought it up: ask yourself WHY this is unlike 20 other Major CBB programs pushing/firing a coach? Can you find a comparable?

And on a personal level ... you're a twit

 

[Pudge]

Huh? Is your suggestion really that Ollie would have accepted $1M to make this all end and the University would not? Really?

as noted ... the attorney sucked and took a hard public posture. We don't know the back and forth: Ollie is in an awful position.

But I bet Ray Allen and others implored senior voices to find a solution. And I am willing to bet, in future Capital campaign raising ... we lost more than $1m in donations.

 

[CL82]

His attorney would never be hired by me.

But my position is clear: UCONN took the harsh posture that they are UCONN ... and they didn't need to concede nor find the the resolution. pumped the Media. The NCAA processing. ADs and Presidents since Calhoun left have acted accordingly. There are other important stakeholders that were ignored.

since you brought it up: ask yourself WHY this is unlike 20 other Major CBB programs pushing/firing a coach? Can you find a comparable?

And on a personal level ... you're a twit

Has named calling helped you at all this thread? Personally, I think it makes your position sound all the weaker.

In any event, after claiming that you could name 10 other coaches who received a three year show cause penalty from the NCAA but were paid by their schools nonetheless but being unable to name even a single one, you are "doubling down" and claiming that their are 20 programs who have done that? Lol, I look forward to your next post where you will, no doubt, claim that there are 40 other programs that did that. Still, I expect that you will be unable to name a single one. Do you think that failure will impact your credibility on this issue? I do, though, admittedly, it is pretty low already.

Next you claimed that UConn refused to offer Ollie a payment to settle his case, but, once again, you couldn't come up with any authority for that either.

Perhaps it is time for you take a breath and rethink your posts in this thread? Clearly making escalating unsubstantiated (phony) claims hasn't been a successful strategy for you.