Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell. | Page 665 | The Boneyard

Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

Kolumbo said:
Welp, the PAC 12 imploded and two elite Cali academics joined the ACC. That's a pretty major change of sea. The ACC has been on shaky ground. I could easily envision Duke, Wake, Cuse, BCU, Pitt, Va Tech scrambling to save both football and basketball. Cal, Stanford, sure bring them along. The biggest problem with the OBE was that many programs had seemingly better options. I think the east coast could handle THE premier hoops conference combined with very solid P/G football conference. Perhaps 20 programs total, 10 and 10, so the football side has ample opportunity for OOC games.
Expand ...
I don't disagree agree with some of your points, but you skip over the most important factor and assume it'd happen (Catholic schools wanting this to occur). Yes, many OBE schools had better options and left for them (i.e. the ACC) and even though I did include Pitt and VA Tech as potentials for a NNBE (new New Big East), they'd certainly want to be in the Big12 as opposed to a NNBE so it's no slam dunk that they'd even be interested and available. The fracture of the Catholics and the FB playing universities in the OBE is what caused the schools that left to actually start looking elsewhere and needs to be considered.

In my mind, maybe more likely to happen is ACC leftover programs like BC, Syracuse, Wake, Duke (I'll leave out Pitt now because I think they would be Big12 bound because WV would benefit and Pitt can bring FB value to the Big12) agree to be in the Big East for Olympic sports and then the football schools form a separate football playing conference or affiliation of Independent status football schools where they can schedule amongst themselves, add in one or two power conference games, and a local rival or two each season to form FB schedules that are better than we currently do now as a standalone Independent. They could manage their own streaming-dominant media contracts on the football side. Not ideal, but one scenario to try to survive from a FB standpoint and optimize basketball/Olympic sports revenue in the post-consolidation era. There are other scenarios, too, of course but that one came off the top of my head in response to your/other poster's previous thoughts.
 
I'm not sure that the rest of the Big East schools care if they're left behind by the biggest football-playing public/state institutions... with the caveat that they care if their dollars are impacted. It's been said in a few threads, but is true, without UCONN there are few actual TV draws in the league. UCONN games & most Villanova ones are desirable (the league hopes Pitino can move St. John's into this tier); otherwise it's a collection of schools desirable-only when they are good (this year that includes Marquette & Creighton, past years Xavier), schools with small followings in big markets, and schools who are filler program, only worth airing when they play a UCONN.

I'd expect the ACC's framework to survive and be the selector of schools to join them. Fine for UCONN but the rest of the Big East will be left out (extraordinarily small chance of Villanova if they suddenly reverse their thinking and finally upgrade (although why they'd do that after rejecting the chance to join a then P6 equivalent immediately a few times over the last two decades I'm not sure)). I have a hard time imagining that a Syracuse or even a BC would want to go back to a construct where their destiny can be set by schools who don't have the same common interests (again); nor do I see a school like Villanova or St. John's wanting to go back to a construct where they are just a follower, rather than a leader in their conference.. because even in that hybrid construct football and the revenue opportunities there will still drive the bus.

In the end even for basketball... UConn, Syracuse, Duke is a stronger basketball core than UConn, Villanova, St. John's and all three of former schools are more aligned on their athletic department goals, than the latter three. If you can get to 10 of 10 votes being football-centric (and not limiting the ways football money can advantage the olympic sports, etc) it's better than getting 10 of 20. Even under the separate construct, I can't see the basketball schools wanting to worry about constant reorganization from schools chasing football dollars and thereby having to leave both the basketball AND football conferences.
 
ScottVib said:
I'm not sure that the rest of the Big East schools care if they're left behind by the biggest football-playing public/state institutions... with the caveat that they care if their dollars are impacted. It's been said in a few threads, but is true, without UCONN there are few actual TV draws in the league. UCONN games & most Villanova ones are desirable (the league hopes Pitino can move St. John's into this tier); otherwise it's a collection of schools desirable-only when they are good (this year that includes Marquette & Creighton, past years Xavier), schools with small followings in big markets, and schools who are filler program, only worth airing when they play a UCONN.

I'd expect the ACC's framework to survive and be the selector of schools to join them. Fine for UCONN but the rest of the Big East will be left out (extraordinarily small chance of Villanova if they suddenly reverse their thinking and finally upgrade (although why they'd do that after rejecting the chance to join a then P6 equivalent immediately a few times over the last two decades I'm not sure)). I have a hard time imagining that a Syracuse or even a BC would want to go back to a construct where their destiny can be set by schools who don't have the same common interests (again); nor do I see a school like Villanova or St. John's wanting to go back to a construct where they are just a follower, rather than a leader in their conference.. because even in that hybrid construct football and the revenue opportunities there will still drive the bus.

In the end even for basketball... UConn, Syracuse, Duke is a stronger basketball core than UConn, Villanova, St. John's and all three of former schools are more aligned on their athletic department goals, than the latter three. If you can get to 10 of 10 votes being football-centric (and not limiting the ways football money can advantage the olympic sports, etc) it's better than getting 10 of 20. Even under the separate construct, I can't see the basketball schools wanting to worry about constant reorganization from schools chasing football dollars and thereby having to leave both the basketball AND football conferences.
Expand ...
Said perfectly!!
 
One option, not being discussed, is if we pooled our pennies and bought the remnant ACC.

With new structures in terms of GOR and TV contracts, there is a possibility that several of the folks fleeing the ACC might be persuaded back.

It would be attractive to retain the ACC name and its geographical implications. (Cali schools are less attractive in terms of Olympic sports and related traffic implications)
 
ScottVib said:
I'm not sure that the rest of the Big East schools care if they're left behind by the biggest football-playing public/state institutions... with the caveat that they care if their dollars are impacted. It's been said in a few threads, but is true, without UCONN there are few actual TV draws in the league. UCONN games & most Villanova ones are desirable (the league hopes Pitino can move St. John's into this tier); otherwise it's a collection of schools desirable-only when they are good (this year that includes Marquette & Creighton, past years Xavier), schools with small followings in big markets, and schools who are filler program, only worth airing when they play a UCONN.

I'd expect the ACC's framework to survive and be the selector of schools to join them. Fine for UCONN but the rest of the Big East will be left out (extraordinarily small chance of Villanova if they suddenly reverse their thinking and finally upgrade (although why they'd do that after rejecting the chance to join a then P6 equivalent immediately a few times over the last two decades I'm not sure)). I have a hard time imagining that a Syracuse or even a BC would want to go back to a construct where their destiny can be set by schools who don't have the same common interests (again); nor do I see a school like Villanova or St. John's wanting to go back to a construct where they are just a follower, rather than a leader in their conference.. because even in that hybrid construct football and the revenue opportunities there will still drive the bus.

In the end even for basketball... UConn, Syracuse, Duke is a stronger basketball core than UConn, Villanova, St. John's and all three of former schools are more aligned on their athletic department goals, than the latter three. If you can get to 10 of 10 votes being football-centric (and not limiting the ways football money can advantage the olympic sports, etc) it's better than getting 10 of 20. Even under the separate construct, I can't see the basketball schools wanting to worry about constant reorganization from schools chasing football dollars and thereby having to leave both the basketball AND football conferences.
Expand ...

And I would rather take a chance and wait for the theoretical ACC leftovers than take a bad Basketball only Big 12 deal and have to play the conference tournament in KC every year. And I live there!
 
Basketball programs after dust "settles," I think, so a lot depends on how big the P2 and Big 12 will go.
11 - Big East
18 - ACC
18 - Big 10
16 - SEC
16 - Big 12
 
.-.
Weird that they choose different windows for football and basketball attendance. In UConns case it costs them higher home attendance from 2009-2012
 
Rockford said:
I would think UConn would be very much one of the leading candidates-

for: State Flagship, academics, basketball, geography, northeast NYC Market, very good in all other sports including olympics...
Expand ...

Fail Charlie Brown GIF by Peanuts

I thought I was done having to post this after the Big 12 debacle
 
.-.
UConnTrumbull said:
And yet SMU got the nod
Expand ...
I think SMU got the nod for 3 reasons:

1) They were willing to take $0 media.

2) ACCN is still part of the cable bundle in local markets so getting the Dallas market meant more money. LT, you need brands not markets so ST thinking.

3) There was talk of reformulating the Pac 12 and SMU was rumored to be part of it so they took the school that might not be available. The perception is that the ACC can take UConn anytime they want. Again, ST thinking and I think part of the reason some of the ACC schools voted against the member adds.
 
UConnJim said:
I think SMU got the nod for 3 reasons:

1) They were willing to take $0 media.

2) ACCN is still part of the cable bundle in local markets so getting the Dallas market meant more money. LT, you need brands not markets so ST thinking.

3) There was talk of reformulating the Pac 12 and SMU was rumored to be part of it so they took the school that might not be available. The perception is that the ACC can take UConn anytime they want. Again, ST thinking and I think part of the reason some of the ACC schools voted against the member adds.
Expand ...
I don't think number 3 flies anymore. By all accounts, we were at the 5 yard line with the B12. If Colorado was the only mover... or Colorado/UA/ASU, but no Utah, it seems like we were next. Closer than SMU was to a destroyed Pac12. If the ACC was just waiting for a time when UConn could be off the board, that was the time. They still passed again (and again when they took Cal/Stamford/SMU).

I really believe that the only way UConn gets an invite to the ACC is if the conference is completely decimated. There would still be a handful of schools left, but not the marquee schools, and we'd be invited along with Memphis, Tulane, USF and other AAC teams we left. We'd still need to consider it, depending on football access and overall basketball quality. But it's not a no-brainer.
 
1...Football...

SMU finished in the Final AP Top 25...to join FSU, Clemson, NC State, and Louisville.

2...Carriage fees...

The ACC Network charges a subscriber fee of $1.30 a month if you are considered “in-conference” compared to 25 cents a month if you are “out-of-conference.” If there is an ACC school in a state the entire state is considered “in-conference”, as confirmed by former ESPN President John Skipper. Cable subscribers in Florida who receive ACC Network pay $1.30 a month regardless of whether they’re in Tallahassee, Miami, Jacksonville, or Orlando. Similarly, cable subscribers in New York City pay $1.30 a month for the ACC Network despite Syracuse being 4 hours away.

3...SMU plays with no ACC media distribution for 9 years...a real sweetener.
 
UConnJim said:
I think SMU got the nod for 3 reasons:

1) They were willing to take $0 media.

2) ACCN is still part of the cable bundle in local markets so getting the Dallas market meant more money. LT, you need brands not markets so ST thinking.

3) There was talk of reformulating the Pac 12 and SMU was rumored to be part of it so they took the school that might not be available. The perception is that the ACC can take UConn anytime they want. Again, ST thinking and I think part of the reason some of the ACC schools voted against the member adds.
Expand ...
 
.-.
As this story picks up more traction I'm more conflicted than ever on what we should do. But I don't think joining the ACC is the slam dunk decision that it used to be.

Would people really want to sign up for:

Stanford
Cal
SMU
Oregon State
Washington State

BC
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Memphis
UConn

Because that could be the ACC in 10 years.

Sure, if just FSU and Clemson leave then it makes sense. If 4 teams leave it makes sense. If 6 teams leave it might even make sense. But there's a good chance we'd be joining a sinking ship and get stuck with the other leftovers
 
JMick said:
As this story picks up more traction I'm more conflicted than ever on what we should do. But I don't think joining the ACC is the slam dunk decision that it used to be.

Would people really want to sign up for:

Stanford
Cal
SMU
Oregon State
Washington State

BC
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Memphis
UConn

Because that could be the ACC in 10 years.

Sure, if just FSU and Clemson leave then it makes sense. If 4 teams leave it makes sense. If 6 teams leave it might even make sense. But there's a good chance we'd be joining a sinking ship and get stuck with the other leftovers
Expand ...
I don't think it would look like that and I think USF is ahead of Memphis and SD St. would be in the mix. If you look at history, some of the schools we have been in a conference with in the past have been conference nomads, jumping ot the next option. Unfortunately, I think UConn may have to go that route. Most important is winning in whatever conference you are in to get into a better conference which was missed when UConn was in the AAC. For example:

Louisville: Kentucky IAC, Ohio Valley, Independent, Missouri Valley, CUSA, Big East, AAC, ACC

Cincinnati: Independent, MAC, Independent, Missouri Valley Conference, Independent, CUSA, Big East, AAC, Big 12.

TCU: Southwest, WAC, CUSA, MWC, (Big East), Big 12
 
UConnJim said:
I don't think it would look like that and I think USF is ahead of Memphis and SD St. would be in the mix.
Expand ...

I mean sure but it realistically could look like that. And is USF any better than Memphis? And do we really want to travel to the West Coast for basketball 5-6 times a year during conference play? The travel in the AAC killed us.

If Duke, Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse and BC are the core leftovers then you can make it work and it would be a fun conference. If even one of the first four aren't available then it falls off real quick.
 
JMick said:
As this story picks up more traction I'm more conflicted than ever on what we should do. But I don't think joining the ACC is the slam dunk decision that it used to be.

Would people really want to sign up for:

Stanford
Cal
SMU
Oregon State
Washington State

BC
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Memphis
UConn

Because that could be the ACC in 10 years.

Sure, if just FSU and Clemson leave then it makes sense. If 4 teams leave it makes sense. If 6 teams leave it might even make sense. But there's a good chance we'd be joining a sinking ship and get stuck with the other leftovers
Expand ...
Is that better than our situation now? What other options would we have? The FB equivalent of Moses in the desert ain't much fun!!
 
.-.
JMick said:
As this story picks up more traction I'm more conflicted than ever on what we should do. But I don't think joining the ACC is the slam dunk decision that it used to be.

Would people really want to sign up for:

Stanford
Cal
SMU
Oregon State
Washington State

BC
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Memphis
UConn

Because that could be the ACC in 10 years.

Sure, if just FSU and Clemson leave then it makes sense. If 4 teams leave it makes sense. If 6 teams leave it might even make sense. But there's a good chance we'd be joining a sinking ship and get stuck with the other leftovers
Expand ...
That would be awful for basketball. I think to "join the ACC" it should include at least:
Duke, Wake, Pitt, Cuse, BCU, and preferably a couple more publics like Va Tech and NC State.
 
Kolumbo said:
That would be awful for basketball. I think to "join the ACC" it should include at least:
Duke, Wake, Pitt, Cuse, BCU, and preferably a couple more publics like Va Tech and NC State.
Expand ...
Yeah and it's a catch 22 because I think to leave the big east we'd need assurances that the conference we join is the same conference year 1 as year 10. But that contractual agreement was the GOR. So if GORs mean nothing then we can't get those assurances.

I don't think the gamble is worth it. I'd rather have a dominant mens program in the big east without football than a mediocre football and basketball program in the "ACC"
 
AllHusky said:
Is that better than our situation now? What other options would we have? The FB equivalent of Moses in the desert ain't much fun!!
Expand ...
I'd rather have football be a dumpster fire as long as basketball is good, than kill the basketball program and play .500 football. I think an alternative will be that some teams join the big east and we do "independence" as a group thing. Either that or we challenge the NCAA and form a formal football only conference separate from the big east and Olympic sports
 
JMick said:
Would people really want to sign up for:

Stanford
Cal
SMU
Oregon State
Washington State

BC
Syracuse
Wake Forest
Memphis
UConn
Expand ...
Yes, particularly if it also meant more than tripping our existing media rights deal. But truth be told, I think that you moved more of the ACC out of that conference than there are slots available.
 
.-.
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,238
Messages
4,559,268
Members
10,445
Latest member
Azerion


Top Bottom