Key tweets, and it's all gone to Hell.

[Ldandy]

I've said several times the holy grail for B1G is UVA, UNC, GT and one of Miami or FSU.

Absolutely lock up the mid-Atlantic and Eastern Seaboard with Penn St (I know PA doesn't touch the ocean but they're presence is there), Rutgers, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina. Add in Georgia Tech and one of the Florida schools and you have a massive eastern presence.

I'm not a total Debbie Downer on FSU. I was only saying I understand a rationale or reasoning for going after the U.

I believe that you're correct with your line of reasoning. UVA and UNC have long been in the cross hairs of The B1G as realignment targets. I believe that the conference will do whatever needs to be done to secure what are considered the two premier programs within those states.

GT, while they've floundered athletically over the last few years, are still AAU, located in a major media market, and are in a state that is home to many B1G Alums. No one is going to argue that they are an equal brand to UGA, however having representation in the state for negotiating linear TV Deals and recruiting student athletes will be very important going forward.

Miami to me is interesting. Prior to AAU Membership I would have said that they were a longshot at best. FSU profiles more closely as a B1G Type Institution as Dayooper has pointed out, however I believe philosophically they align far better with the SEC. Same goes for Clemson. Miami, despite being in the South is much more Northeast leaning due to their time in both The ACC and Big East Conferences. They recruit the Northeast heavily for students, and their leadership is much more aligned with the schools of The B1G as opposed to The SEC. Having a warm weather location for early season Spring sports like baseball, softball, track etc. to compete would be ideal as well.

Where does that leave The PAC in all this? For a long time, people have assumed that UO and UW were locks as future conference members. Honestly I'm not so sure about that anymore. Neither school provides any relief as potential travel partners for USC or UCLA. They would simply add more cross-country flights for the majority of the conference. It could be argued that targeting Stanford for their location, academics, and overall AD + ASU (Now AAU) for their market, proximity to SoCal, and similar institutional profile to most of The B1G could make them a more attractive option than the Pacific Northwest Schools. We can't forget that ND will remain a target as long as they cling to independence. A Notre Dame addition could knock out one of The ACC Schools in a race to 20, or force growth to 24 with more PAC or ACC Additions. It will definitely be interesting to see things play out.

 

[Hoophound]

FSU is in the sticks in Tallahassee. South Florida has way more people. Of course, none of them follow the 'Canes anymore.

But, if you are telling B1G boosters and fans they have to travel to a football game in Florida, would you rather it be in Tallahassee or Miami?

I also don't discount Miami being a private school and the B1G being able to use them as a conduit to get everything ironed and not be worried about FOI requests.

I just don't see it at this point. FSU has a giant following and gets strong ratings. The only way I'd take Miami over FSU would be if the SEC has already told FSU they have a spot when they are free to move. Taking Miami over FSU would be a huge mistake. Take both? Then you might be onto something.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I believe that you're correct with your line of reasoning. UVA and UNC have long been in the cross hairs of The B1G as realignment targets. I believe that the conference will do whatever needs to be done to secure what are considered the two premier programs within those states.

GT, while they've floundered athletically over the last few years, are still AAU, located in a major media market, and are in a state that is home to many B1G Alums. No one is going to argue that they are an equal brand to UGA, however having representation in the state for negotiating linear TV Deals and recruiting student athletes will be very important going forward.

Miami to me is interesting. Prior to AAU Membership I would have said that they were a longshot at best. FSU profiles more closely as a B1G Type Institution as Dayooper has pointed out, however I believe philosophically they align far better with the SEC. Same goes for Clemson. Miami, despite being in the South is much more Northeast leaning due to their time in both The ACC and Big East Conferences. They recruit the Northeast heavily for students, and their leadership is much more aligned with the schools of The B1G as opposed to The SEC. Having a warm weather location for early season Spring sports like baseball, softball, track etc. to compete would be ideal as well.

Where does that leave The PAC in all this? For a long time, people have assumed that UO and UW were locks as future conference members. Honestly I'm not so sure about that anymore. Neither school provides any relief as potential travel partners for USC or UCLA. They would simply add more cross-country flights for the majority of the conference. It could be argued that targeting Stanford for their location, academics, and overall AD + ASU (Now AAU) for their market, proximity to SoCal, and similar institutional profile to most of The B1G could make them a more attractive option than the Pacific Northwest Schools. We can't forget that ND will remain a target as long as they cling to independence. A Notre Dame addition could knock out one of The ACC Schools in a race to 20, or force growth to 24 with more PAC or ACC Additions. It will definitely be interesting to see things play out.

I'll add this. Given the choice of locking up NJ, DC, VA, NC, and parts of Georgia and South Florida do you take that or lock up the Pacific Northwest with the Seattle market????? Choice A gives you about 40 million eyes balls in Eastern Time Zone. The other gets you 4 or 5 million in Pacific Time Zone.

 

[Urcea]

From a B1G perspective, too bad there's nothing left in Texas to take. UNC, Miami/FSU, Georgia Tech, and something there would put them in all the big southern markets. Houston in a decade, maybe?

 

[Ldandy]

I'll add this. Given the choice of locking up NJ, DC, VA, NC, and parts of Georgia and South Florida do you take that or lock up the Pacific Northwest with the Seattle market????? Choice A gives you about 40 million eyes balls in Eastern Time Zone. The other gets you 4 or 5 million in Pacific Time Zone.

It's entirely possible that we see both, however The East Coast is a far more logical and profitable addition than The Pacific Northwest. Again, this is simply my opinion, but from a travel perspective ASU and Stanford make a lot more sense to pair with USC and UCLA. They get you into The Bay Area and Phoenix which collectively are more valuable than Seattle and Portland. Just like with Miami, The Sundevils joining The AAU might provide them a level of consideration that they may have not been previously afforded. They profile very similarly to many of the large state universities already in the conference. The fact that they have both wrestling and ice hockey, two sports highlighted on BTN, makes for an interesting side note.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

From a B1G perspective, too bad there's nothing left in Texas to take. UNC, Miami/FSU, Georgia Tech, and something there would put them in all the big southern markets. Houston in a decade, maybe?

There is no way in hell the B1G would ever consider adding Cougar High.

 

[uconnric]

When the ACC blows up, Georgia Tech would be an attractive add for the Big 12 if the B1G doesn't grab them for the Atlanta market. Va Tech, and NC State may be attractive also, assuming UNC and UVA end up in the B1G. Wouldn't be surprised if UNC, NC State, UVA, Va Tech (depending on who goes to the B1G) were on the SEC's radar as well. Duke may be in the mix somewhere also.

The B1G and Big 12 are trying to cast their net across the country. When content goes more to streaming that becomes more important. Even the SEC will have to look at their footprint.

 

[CoastAtlantic]

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's entirely possible that we see both, however The East Coast is a far more logical and profitable addition than The Pacific Northwest. Again, this is simply my opinion, but from a travel perspective ASU and Stanford make a lot more sense to pair with USC and UCLA. They get you into The Bay Area and Phoenix which collectively are more valuable than Seattle and Portland. Just like with Miami, The Sundevils joining The AAU might provide them a level of consideration that they may have not been previously afforded. They profile very similarly to many of the large state universities already in the conference. The fact that they have both wrestling and ice hockey, two sports highlighted on BTN, makes for an interesting side note.

I think people are focusing way too much on markets. Washington and Oregon bring more eyeballs to football games than any of UNC, UVA, GT or Miami. Miami probably tops the list of those four. There are other factors, including demographics, distance and a desire to recruit HS students (and football players) in those fast growing states. But TV markets? That isn't what's driving things anymore. UCLA and USC were desired because they (especially USC) bring eyeballs to games nationwide. Not because people in LA watch a lot of college football (they don't). It is a critical recruiting ground though. Stanford is not only not in a fertile recruiting ground, the Bay Area has even less interest in college sports than LA does.

This market stuff is like evaluating Taylor Swift because she brings the south-eastern Pennsylvania market. Alabama isn't valuable because it "brings the Huntsville and Mobile markets".

 

[Stinger92860]

I think people are focusing way too much on markets. Washington and Oregon bring more eyeballs to football games than any of UNC, UVA, GT or Miami.

If that is the case why is the PAC imploding?

 

[HuskyHawk]

If that is the case why is the PAC imploding?

Because west coast time zone games suck for ratings and half the schools have very low appeal. Oregon State and Wash State are bottom of the barrel. Stanford and Cal struggle to attract viewers. Oregon vs USC is a big game. Now that game is gone. So what big game is left in the Pac? Oregon vs Washington? Colorado now probably. Utah is decent and ASU or UA is on occasion.

Losing UCLA and USC decreases the inventory of quality games dramatically. The Big 12 in contrast is much stronger at the bottom. It's a little like we saw in the early days of the AAC for basketball, 4-5 appealing teams and several terrible ones.

The B1G benefits because USC and UCLA will not only bring eyeballs, but will play half their games on eastern or central time. UDub and Oregon playing B1G teams on B1G time would be more appealing than UVA or UNC playing those games. But there are other non-sports factors at work and it would mean more than twice as many Pacific time zone games.

 

[huskymedic]

If that is the case why is the PAC imploding?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Has the PAC really been negotiating this for a year?

They're in far worse shape than most could have imagined.

 

[huskymedic]

Hmmmm…. Yormack has new folks in place and holiday break is over. Ready for business??




-> This athletic year, Baylor University president Linda Livingstone becomes the chairperson of the Big 12 Board of Directors. She succeeds Texas Tech University president Lawrence Schovanec whose two-year term expired June 30th. Joining Livingstone on the Board executive committee is University of Kansas chancellor Doug Girod as vice-chair, and Iowa State University president Wendy Wintersteen as secretary/treasurer. Their appointments are through the 2024-25 season.<-

 

[WestHartHusk]

Hmmmm…. Yormack has new folks in place and holiday break is over. Ready for business??




-> This athletic year, Baylor University president Linda Livingstone becomes the chairperson of the Big 12 Board of Directors. She succeeds Texas Tech University president Lawrence Schovanec whose two-year term expired June 30th. Joining Livingstone on the Board executive committee is University of Kansas chancellor Doug Girod as vice-chair, and Iowa State University president Wendy Wintersteen as secretary/treasurer. Their appointments are through the 2024-25 season.<-

Probably a decent break for us. Baylor seems to have been implicitly defending us publicly, and I'd assume Kansas is pro-, or at least not anti-, UConn. Iowa State has scheduled us in the past.

 

[Eavesdrop]

Because west coast time zone games suck for ratings and half the schools have very low appeal. Oregon State and Wash State are bottom of the barrel. Stanford and Cal struggle to attract viewers. Oregon vs USC is a big game. Now that game is gone. So what big game is left in the Pac? Oregon vs Washington? Colorado now probably. Utah is decent and ASU or UA is on occasion.

Bob Thompson, former Fox Sports Networks president, did some back of the napkin math to illustrate how unequal media revenue sharing might work in the PAC 10/12.

He valued Washington, Oregon and Stanford together in a top tier.

He put Utah, Cal and Arizona State in the next tier.

And Colorado, Arizona, Oregon State and Washington State were relegated to a third tier.

Canzano: Geeking out on the media value of Pac-12 schools

What are the members really worth?

www.johncanzano.com

 

[HuskyHawk]

Bob Thompson, former Fox Sports Networks president, did some back of the napkin math to illustrate how unequal media revenue sharing might work in the PAC 10/12.

He valued Washington, Oregon and Stanford together in a top tier.

He put Utah, Cal and Arizona State in the next tier.

And Colorado, Arizona, Oregon State and Washington State were relegated to a third tier.

Canzano: Geeking out on the media value of Pac-12 schools

What are the members really worth?

www.johncanzano.com

Stanford top tier is laughable. Nobody has cared about them for decades. Their own students don’t watch the games. Colorado is based on post coach Prime interest and playing B12 teams. If he fails then they’d revert, but certainly not bottom tier.

 

[Bongo Fury]

Probably a decent break for us. Baylor seems to have been implicitly defending us publicly, and I'd assume Kansas is pro-, or at least not anti-, UConn. Iowa State has scheduled us in the past.

I would think so. Baylor and KU are BB schools. Let’s build something special

 

[BullDawg]

Stanford top tier is laughable. Nobody has cared about them for decades. Their own students don’t watch the games. Colorado is based on post coach Prime interest and playing B12 teams. If he fails then they’d revert, but certainly not bottom tier.

Stanford’s top tier just for the strange Tree Mascot. I imagine it’s the most suspended school mascot of all time.

 

[Ldandy]

I think people are focusing way too much on markets. Washington and Oregon bring more eyeballs to football games than any of UNC, UVA, GT or Miami. Miami probably tops the list of those four. There are other factors, including demographics, distance and a desire to recruit HS students (and football players) in those fast growing states. But TV markets? That isn't what's driving things anymore. UCLA and USC were desired because they (especially USC) bring eyeballs to games nationwide. Not because people in LA watch a lot of college football (they don't). It is a critical recruiting ground though. Stanford is not only not in a fertile recruiting ground, the Bay Area has even less interest in college sports than LA does.

This market stuff is like evaluating Taylor Swift because she brings the south-eastern Pennsylvania market. Alabama isn't valuable because it "brings the Huntsville and Mobile markets".

You have to look at the entire package a team represents and how that benefits the conference doing the selecting. TV Markets and cable subscribers are still a factor to The B1G. They can still add value when negotiating their linear TV Deals, and provide direct revenue for the conference as they maintain an ownership stake in The BTN.

The primary driver behind further western expansion will likely have as much or more to do with not leaving USC/UCLA on an island than it will with overall viewership. Demographic shifts are a major concern for The B1G and they are very interested in being able to plant a flag in growing areas in the south and west.

 

[Eavesdrop]

Stanford top tier is laughable. Nobody has cared about them for decades. Their own students don’t watch the games. Colorado is based on post coach Prime interest and playing B12 teams. If he fails then they’d revert, but certainly not bottom tier.

Maybe.

My inclination is to defer to an expert who negotiated several media deals and worked routinely with valuations.

 

[Bongo Fury]

Coach Prime? Jeeze. If he is successful, he is gone Maybe longing for FSU?

 

[CL82]

I think people are focusing way too much on markets. Washington and Oregon bring more eyeballs to football games than any of UNC, UVA, GT or Miami. Miami probably tops the list of those four. There are other factors, including demographics, distance and a desire to recruit HS students (and football players) in those fast growing states. But TV markets? That isn't what's driving things anymore. UCLA and USC were desired because they (especially USC) bring eyeballs to games nationwide. Not because people in LA watch a lot of college football (they don't). It is a critical recruiting ground though. Stanford is not only not in a fertile recruiting ground, the Bay Area has even less interest in college sports than LA does.

This market stuff is like evaluating Taylor Swift because she brings the south-eastern Pennsylvania market. Alabama isn't valuable because it "brings the Huntsville and Mobile markets".

True but if your goal is to be in all four time zones being in a market that adds a time zone or builds up and under represented time zone is a good thing.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

You have to look at the entire package a team represents and how that benefits the conference doing the selecting. TV Markets and cable subscribers are still a factor to The B1G. They can still add value when negotiating their linear TV Deals, and provide direct revenue for the conference as they maintain an ownership stake in The BTN.

The primary driver behind further western expansion will likely have as much or more to do with not leaving USC/UCLA on an island than it will with overall viewership. Demographic shifts are a major concern for The B1G and they are very interested in being able to plant a flag in growing areas in the south and west.

Agreed and conferences, especially the BIG10, care about where their alumns and donors are located, where they can find good high school students that'll pay out of state tuition with less than average financial needs, and of course where great high school athletes are located. Lots of factors that push certain markets over others.

 

[HuskyHawk]

True but if your goal is to be in all four time zones being in a market that adds a time zone or builds up and under represented time zone is a good thing.

Yeah, there re obvious positives to UNC and UVA and Miami and GT. Recruiting territory, growing areas with money and good HS kids to possibly attend B1G schools. It’s not at all clear what they will choose. But for pure TV draw appeal, Washington and Oregon would be the best. That may not be enough. ACC schools are pretty locked in though.