Kevin Duffy on Facey's situation

[CTBasketball]

Does it concern anyone else that our two toip recruits might not take the floor this year? One, Samuels, needs to pass 2 classes in summer school just to show up. The other is in NCAA hell. Somebody did a lousy job vetting these guys. Frankly, the Samuels situatuion bothers me more than Facey. We're back to recruiting guys who are academic casualties waiting to happen...

I kind of agree, but you can't say Ollie should have had the foresight to see the problems though. Recruiting is a tricky business filled with deceitful people and liars.

 

[uconnng8]

You picked this thread and this post to become a "Boneyard Junkie"? Thanks for joining on such a positive note!

I love UConn basketball and frankly idc what the staff has to do to get wins and championships. But as a student basketball isn't the only thing I care about when it comes to the school. I wasn't really trying to be negative, just putting it out there that at a school that is strong academically and at basketball, rules will be bent.

 

[ctchamps]

Yes it bothers me that the top 2 recruits may not see the floor this year but honestly if Samuels is just able to pass his 2 summer classes and make it to UConn he will be fine. After receiving the prior academic punishment there is little chance that the AST{Academic Support Team} will let any of these future recruits put the school in jeopardy for further punishment. All that Samuels or any basketball player has to do is have a pulse and they will pass. Listen I played baseball at UConn back in the day and this is how it works. First you meet with your AST mentor who you goes over your major and future aspirations with you. They then give you a list of classes{taught by "friends of the program"} you will need to take for your major. The AST has on file and will give you each one of these classes mid terms and finals before you take it so you can study the EXACT material on the tests. The AST will also help with any other assignments you have in these classes which as long as you turn in something on time usually gets no worse than a B from the "friend of the program" professor. So as long as you can show up for class, read a syllabus to know when things are due, and study for an hour for mid term and final then you are guaranteed a grade no lower than a B.

Since you seem/claim to have an insight to how universities especially UConn stretch rules what's your take on why UConn ended up with an apr issue?

 

[Huskyfan23]

Since you seem/claim to have an insight to how universities especially UConn stretch rules what's your take on why UConn ended up with an apr issue?

I am not an expert on the calculation of the APR but IMHO UConn initially ended up with an issue because of 3 factors. #1 The Nate Miles debacle in which he was thrown out of school and thus causing a negative effect on UConn's APR. #2 The number of players that go pro early and never go to any classes after the beginning of their last season. Even though signing a Pro contract garners a retention waiver the student must be in academic good standing during their last semester at school. Put yourself in their shoes for a second. You are 20 years old, a guaranteed lottery pick in the draft, and have millions of dollars waiting are you going to get up and go to a 9:00am Psych 220 class? I didn't think so. Finally #3 is the transferring of players such as Jamal Trice, Darius Smith, etc. to JUCOs which negatively effects APR. However transferring to a JUCO is very attractive to these players because they do not have to sit out a year and can play immediately.

 

[ctchamps]

I am not an expert on the calculation of the APR but IMHO UConn initially ended up with an issue because of 3 factors. #1 The Nate Miles debacle in which he was thrown out of school and thus causing a negative effect on UConn's APR. #2 The number of players that go pro early and never go to any classes after the beginning of their last season. Even though signing a Pro contract garners a retention waiver the student must be in academic good standing during their last semester at school. Put yourself in their shoes for a second. You are 20 years old, a guaranteed lottery pick in the draft, and have millions of dollars waiting are you going to get up and go to a 9:00am Psych 220 class? I didn't think so. Finally #3 is the transferring of players such as Jamal Trice, Darius Smith, etc. to JUCOs which negatively effects APR. However transferring to a JUCO is very attractive to these players because they do not have to sit out a year and can play immediately.

Nate Miles created problems for the program but was not a factor in the APR. Going pro or transferring are not factors either. The factor is not leaving in good standing when transferring. My question to you is if UConn is gaming the system with it's athletes why didn't the students who transferred have "gamed" transcripts? I was hoping you could shed some light on this.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I love UConn basketball and frankly idc what the staff has to do to get wins and championships. But as a student basketball isn't the only thing I care about when it comes to the school. I wasn't really trying to be negative, just putting it out there that at a school that is strong academically and at basketball, rules will be bent.

What the **** do you mean "rules will be bent"? It's not bending rules to admit athletes who probably wouldn't get in if they didn't play a sport. Are you new to this whole "college sports" thing? Or are you one of those guys who thinks the kids that play at Duke are subject to the same admissions standards as everyone else?

 

[Huskyfan23]

Nate Miles created problems for the program but was not a factor in the APR. Going pro or transferring are not factors either. The factor is not leaving in good standing when transferring. My question to you is if UConn is gaming the system with it's athletes why didn't the students who transferred have "gamed" transcripts? I was hoping you could shed some light on this.

No sir you are wrong. If you read up on the subject of "retention points" I think you will understand APR scoring a little better. Oh and your comment about transferring is fine but I pointed out transfers to JUCOs which are not "4 year institutions" and thus do not receive a "retention waiver" so thus making your argument incorrect.

 

[Huskyfan23]

What are you talking about "gamed" transcripts?

 

[uconnng8]

What the do you mean "rules will be bent"? It's not bending rules to admit athletes who probably wouldn't get in if they didn't play a sport. Are you new to this whole "college sports" thing? Or are you one of those guys who thinks the kids that play at Duke are subject to the same admissions standards as everyone else?

Rules wasn't necessarily the right word to use, academic standards is more appropriate. Like you noted with the Duke comment, a kid with an 80 who plays ball can get into a school where a normal student needs a 90. Are they breaking rules by doing this? obviously not they can admit whomever they want, but academic standards are definitely compromised for certain students and that was solely my point. I know you think that is valid cuz you mentioned it in your post, don't know why I needed to get jumped on by my "fellow" UConn fans.

 

[Goat]

I think people are getting angry because wording seemingly suggested there was "cheating" going on. While athletes are given advantages, those are not cheating because they are not prohibited and not academically dishonest. The perks of athletics are uneven, but ubiquitous.

My sons were recruited for "Olympic" sports. In the Ivy League there are no athletic scholarships, but one of the perks to being an athlete is admission to an institution with prestige that you might not have been admitted to, but for your participation in sport. This is true even at the D3 level.

Years ago SI had an article about big time college football training tables. The players are served great food, more abundant than in other student cafeterias, if not unlimited. Big linemen might have special diets to follow to loose weight. Everyone is getting protein from muscle growth.

In some places, like faculty lounges, it is difficult to accept that an academically competitive student body is drawn to a school where they can watch major college basketball on winter nights. It is easy for professors to resent the coaches salaries, and see the programs as costly excess. There were/are academics who favor ending the existence of college athletics. Lawrence Summers, before he aspired to the Fed Chair, was President of Harvard and I believe he wrote in support of dismantling interscholastic athletics. So, I understand why the teams have to know who is going to grade a student down for missing classes when they have a game in Germany.

 

[ctchamps]

What are you talking about "gamed" transcripts?

Bad choice of words on my part. Are you sure about kids who transfer to JUCO's counting against the APR?

 

[Huskyfan23]

Bad choice of words on my part. Are you sure about kids who transfer to JUCO's counting against the APR?

Yes, JUCO's are not "4 year universities" so a "retention point" is lost if a player who is even in good academic standing transfers to a JUCO.

 

[Huskyforlife]

so getting back on track..... facey is losing 2 years of eligibility?

 

[HuskyBballFan]

so getting back on track..... facey is losing 2 years of eligibility?

By the letter of the law, that could be true. But the articles written about this subject suggest that Uconn seems fairly confident that they will be able to "negotiate."

 

[freescooter]

You're a pr1ck. Facey is a great student and Samuel had fine grades but apparently a poor advisor which seems to be the case w a lot of NYC kids. It's painful reading your posts.

My major point is that we should be knowing this stuff. It has been a problem over and over for UConn. And a new administration and a new coach hasn't changed it. Look, I get that you take a flyer on one kid who doesn't meet the most basic entrance requirements, as we did with Samuels, but we've recruited enough foreign players over the years, that to get caught flatfooted on Facey is just not acceptable. When you combine the two, its totally unacceptable. You don't read about other major programs having multiple players with these problems. And by the way, somebody ought to advise Samuels about courses to take. It isn't like its some surprise that he's a basketball player. You mean between family, high school coaches, AAU coaches and school officials, nobody can look at the NCAA guidelines and say, "Hey pal, you need to take another English class and a US History?" Or whatever the classes were. Or a UConn recruiter didn't aks for his transcript and when they first made contact and say,"Listen if you want to come to UConn you need to make sure you take these classes?" I know when my kids were recruited, that was the first thing the schools did, and none of them were even remotely considered major programs.

As for Hfan23's comments, he apparently missed 2008-2010.

 

[upstater]

I am not an expert on the calculation of the APR but IMHO UConn initially ended up with an issue because of 3 factors. #1 The Nate Miles debacle in which he was thrown out of school and thus causing a negative effect on UConn's APR. #2 The number of players that go pro early and never go to any classes after the beginning of their last season. Even though signing a Pro contract garners a retention waiver the student must be in academic good standing during their last semester at school. Put yourself in their shoes for a second. You are 20 years old, a guaranteed lottery pick in the draft, and have millions of dollars waiting are you going to get up and go to a 9:00am Psych 220 class? I didn't think so. Finally #3 is the transferring of players such as Jamal Trice, Darius Smith, etc. to JUCOs which negatively effects APR. However transferring to a JUCO is very attractive to these players because they do not have to sit out a year and can play immediately.

There's a host of misconceptions here. One, Miles didn't count against APR since it would have created a perverse incentive to keep a kid who violated a restraining order. Kids who are expelled from school do not count against APR, per NCAA rules. Second, kids who go pro do not need to maintain ANY decent GPA. Only transfers need a 2.6 (used to be a 2.3) in their final semesters at a school.

Only your last sentence about transfers was a problem for UConn. Someone also stated that Gavin Edwards leaving early was a problem, but that shows you how backward the NCAA is for rewarding a school when a kid completes 1/2 a year of school and penalizing a school when a kid completes 3 1/2 years and then leaves midway through the spring.

 

[upstater]

Syracuse was having trouble with recruit Roberson who had low grades: http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2013/09/tyler_robersons_aau_coach_expr.html

That problem was cleared up by the NCAA rather quickly, given the kid took summer classes: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...e-freshman-tyler-roberson-cleared-by-the-ncaa

So, what's the hold up now on Facey?

 

[Danzz]

The rule of thumb at most schools is that athletes get about 1/2 to 1 full letter grade advantage. An F is still an F so if they don't do the work they flunk. But to say they don't catch a break academically isn't accurate either. I have no personal knowledge of UConn but I'd bet it isn't much different.

 

[jibsey]

There is no doubt it happens and will continue happen at UConn. There is no way a kid like Samuels would even be considered for a school like UConn without his basketball here. Lets not kid ourselves here UConn is strong academically and is getting stronger every year; a kid who has to go to summer school would not get in to UConn. Period.

My nephew was recruited for football at Amherst and there was no way he would sniff that place with his academics and SAT's. He was given substantial scholarship aid, got injured and never played a down. The aid continued all the way through. BTW, he did fine and is now a successful hedge fund company owner. My point is that all schools including the Ivys play academic admission games for their athletes.

 

[gtcam]

You don't think that happens at UConn? I have stories for days about some of the shady stuff that happened while I was there. It happens everywhere.

thanks for the inside knowledge but please keep a lid on it- the friggin ncaa will probably come up with an all out retroactive death penalty on all sports but football

 

[mauconnfan]

Syracuse was having trouble with recruit Roberson who had low grades: http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2013/09/tyler_robersons_aau_coach_expr.html

That problem was cleared up by the NCAA rather quickly, given the kid took summer classes: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...e-freshman-tyler-roberson-cleared-by-the-ncaa

So, what's the hold up now on Facey?

C'mon upstater you should know the answer to your own question......

The hold up on Facey is he didn't go to Syracuse or UNC

 

[uconnfan68]

So in other words you cheat your way through school and get a "degree"?

It's a little more work than a UNC player does, but we're preparing them for life.