Kevin Duffy: make or break season? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Kevin Duffy: make or break season?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Waquoit said:
I think "make or break" is fair. Having said that, I think this season will be a solid "make".
Expand ...

Do you honestly believe that this year will "make or break" PP??
 
UConnDan97 said:
And yet the worst team record that we had in the conference was what, again? 5-7? How the hell can anyone say that a league was terrible if their worst team was 5-7? Our OOC record (bowl games included) was 29 - 16!!

You may have a feeling as to what something is, but when you look at the data, it just simply isn't true. You cannot say that a league with a 29-16 OOC record is absolutely terrible...
Expand ...

There isn't any context the 29-16 OOC record. Does 29-16 in a vacuum suck? No. Put some context with those numbers and it tells the full story.

How many of those wins were against MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt teams?
How many of those wins were against BCS teams that finished in the top third or quarter of their conference?

As I said before, aside from West Virginia over Clemson, name one other quality OOC win? USF at ND?

The Big East has been great in years since the first raid and I'll be the first one to admit that, but last year wasn't one of them. In fact, the league was awful and beating MAC teams and having a high winning percentage doesn't do anything to dispel that fact.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
There isn't any context the 29-16 OOC record. Does 29-16 in a vacuum suck? No. Put some context with those numbers and it tells the full story.

How many of those wins were against MAC, C-USA or Sun Belt teams?
How many of those wins were against BCS teams that finished in the top third or quarter of their conference?

As I said before, aside from West Virginia over Clemson, name one other quality OOC win? USF at ND?

The Big East has been great in years since the first raid and I'll be the first one to admit that, but last year wasn't one of them. In fact, the league was awful and beating MAC teams and having a high winning percentage doesn't do anything to dispel that fact.
Expand ...

Do you honestly believe that we are the only major conference that plays against teams that aren't in the major conferences? Do you think the Big10 doesn't play against the MAC??? In fact, most years the Big10 takes a loss or two from those very same MAC teams that you are saying should be taken into context. Let's just look at the Big10 last year, shall we?

Indiana - losses to Ball State and North Texas
Northwestern - lost to Army
Minnesota - losses to New Mexico State and North Dakota State
Purdue - lost to Rice

And the Big10 is one of the most respected leagues out there. The only non-BCS losses for the Big East that I could find were Louisville's losses to FIU and Marshall, and our loss to Western Michigan. Three. Three out of the 16 (actually four, counting SMU against Pitt in the bowl game). How's that for perspective??

By the way, just in case the point was lost on the audience, North Dakota State is a 1-AA team...
 
let me see if i have this right. we have a coach with the most wins in BE history who gains 6 yrs of NFL experience, gets a late start when edsall bails, hires a new defensive coordinator, has some xfrs, loses starters on both sides of the ball due to injuries, the leading receiver the previous yr smith doesn't play due to academics, starts a walk-on at qb with a freshman running back carrying the load and all of A SUDDEN HE DOESN'T REMEMBER HOW TO COACH.
i don't drink the kool-aid, but i believe coach P has the team going in the right direction. another yr or 2 & i see the team being very good. a 7-5/8-4 possibly this yr.
 
UConnDan97 said:
Do you honestly believe that we are the only major conference that plays against teams that aren't in the major conferences? Do you think the Big10 doesn't play against the MAC??? In fact, most years the Big10 takes a loss or two from those very same MAC teams that you are saying should be taken into context. Let's just look at the Big10 last year, shall we?

Indiana - losses to Ball State and North Texas
Northwestern - lost to Army
Minnesota - losses to New Mexico State and North Dakota State
Purdue - lost to Rice

And the Big10 is one of the most respected leagues out there. The only non-BCS losses for the Big East that I could find were Louisville's losses to FIU and Marshall, and our loss to Western Michigan. Three. Three out of the 16 (actually four, counting SMU against Pitt in the bowl game). How's that for perspective??

By the way, just in case the point was lost on the audience, North Dakota State is a 1-AA team...
Expand ...

You listed the last and second to last place teams in the Big10 Legends and the 3rd and last place team in the Big10 Leaders and how they lost to non BCS teams.

Our co-champion, Louisville, lost to Marshall and Florida International.

Again, back to my original question, name one other respectable ooc win the Big East had aside from West Virginia.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. The Big East didn't beat anyone out of conference, had 1 ranked team and had some embarrassing out of conference losses. The conference just wasn't good last year.
 
obviously you have to give a coach at least 3 or 4 years to prove what they can do so in the sense P could be fired it's not make or break, but it is all practicality. we have a lot of talent this year. some of it, like Whitmer and Phillips is strictly due to P, but either way if he can't do really well with this year's roster and schedule i don't see what chance he'll have of doing better after we dump our garbage and pick up our new teams. the teams we're adding next year would have basically been the top of the conference last year and we're losing the two objectively worst performing teams in the conference. obviously there could be extenuating circumstances but if we don't win more than 8 games i'll be officially off the P bandwagon. personally i'm not worried about that b/c i really liked a lot of the playcalling last year and i think we're going to have a great season. i'll be disappointed with less than 8 wins, happy with 9, thrilled with 10, name my next kid Paul at 13
 
.-.
It's not really whether we have a good or bad season, but the mood of the fan base. If the mood is very negative I see WM pulling the trigger and bringing in his own person.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
You listed the last and second to last place teams in the Big10 Legends and the 3rd and last place team in the Big10 Leaders and how they lost to non BCS teams.

Our co-champion, Louisville, lost to Marshall and Florida International.

Again, back to my original question, name one other respectable ooc win the Big East had aside from West Virginia.

I'm not sure what's so hard to understand. The Big East didn't beat anyone out of conference, had 1 ranked team and had some embarrassing out of conference losses. The conference just wasn't good last year.
Expand ...

First, all I did was look at the losses; I didn't care what position they were in regarding standings. That's what happens when you have a league where the bottom team is 5-7; we don't have losses to 1-AA's and any one of those teams can beat you on any given day (especially since one of those teams was UConn).

Secondly, there is a big big big big difference between you saying that the conference wasn't good last year and saying that they were "terrible." I never said the Big East had a great year, but it certainly could not be classified as terrible. Here are the big OOC wins for us last year, in the order that I think was the most impressive:

WVU beat Clemson 70-33 (It was a BCS bowl, on the big stage, and it showed the level of competition that existed in the Big East that didn't in the ACC)
Cincy beat NCState 44-14 (Except for the BCS comment, see the above comment)
USF wins @ Notre Dame 23-20 (This was a team tied for our worst, and they just happened to go into a famous college venue and came out with a win)
Rutgers beat Iowa State 27-13 (Iowa State was a solid team that had beaten previously unbeaten Okla State, and we should have beaten them, too!)
Louisville wins @ Kentucky 24-17 (an SEC opponent and rival, the Ville made up for their horrible OOC losses in part with this one)
Cincy beat Vandy 31-24 (another SEC opponent, and another one that we should have beaten!)
WVU wins @ Maryland 37-31 (this was after MD won at Miami but before we found out that they were going to suck)
Syracuse beat Wake Forest 36-29 (more proof that we were better than the ACC)

Again, I'm not trying to make the argument that the conference was better than any of the top four conferences in the country. But we had every right to say we were #5 last year. To me, that's not a terrible year. Not great, but not terrible...
 
fan base mood = ticket sales. If there is no buzz from this year that would be a problem for Coach P. There have been some very good posts in this thread documenting the bare cupboard PP had to deal with on offense and then losing Blidi on D last season. I'm very optimistic about this year and think we are headed in the right direction. Let the games begin.
 
This season could break him. But it would need to 9-10 wins to "make" him.
 
jdb50 said:
fan base mood = ticket sales. If there is no buzz from this year that would be a problem for Coach P. There have been some very good posts in this thread documenting the bare cupboard PP had to deal with on offense and then losing Blidi on D last season. I'm very optimistic about this year and think we are headed in the right direction. Let the games begin.
Expand ...

Exactly, new President, new AD. They will get turned off pretty quickly if ticket sales keep going south.
 
I truly believe that you can't just keep turning over the coach every two years though. If you guys wanna talk about fan base moods going south along with ticket sales, firing the coach every two years because he only wins 5 or 6 games in his first season and maybe 6 in his second is a sure fire way to guarantee a losing season for years to come. Like others have stated, a college football head coach comes into a program with players who were the previous coaches players and who fit into that old coaches style of play. The new HC needs at least two years to fully implement and get the type of players HE needs to be successful. I stated earlier that on paper, PP has improved our level of recruit and hopefully this will lead to improved play on the field. Recruits can obviously not work out but improving recruiting on paper, for now, is a good thing. If he goes 6-6 he'll stay, even if this board and others in the fan base call for his head. They'll give him at least another season of recruiting and play style implementation. If he flounders next season at 6-6, he's done.

I think Warde is smart enough, I hope, to realize that turning over coaches left and right only leads to the cycle I said above, to be repeated over and over and the results to likely be the same.
 
.-.
UCFBfan said:
I truly believe that you can't just keep turning over the coach every two years though. If you guys wanna talk about fan base moods going south along with ticket sales, firing the coach every two years because he only wins 5 or 6 games in his first season and maybe 6 in his second is a sure fire way to guarantee a losing season for years to come. Like others have stated, a college football head coach comes into a program with players who were the previous coaches players and who fit into that old coaches style of play. The new HC needs at least two years to fully implement and get the type of players HE needs to be successful. I stated earlier that on paper, PP has improved our level of recruit and hopefully this will lead to improved play on the field. Recruits can obviously not work out but improving recruiting on paper, for now, is a good thing. If he goes 6-6 he'll stay, even if this board and others in the fan base call for his head. They'll give him at least another season of recruiting and play style implementation. If he flounders next season at 6-6, he's done.

I think Warde is smart enough, I hope, to realize that turning over coaches left and right only leads to the cycle I said above, to be repeated over and over and the results to likely be the same.
Expand ...


We've changed coaches once in our FBS history. That is not too much turnover.
 
For the record, IMO even if we take a step backwards I don't think Manuel will fire PP after this season, unless there are other non-football negatives that emerge about his leadership (which I really doubt). If we go 5-7 or worse again this year PP will be officially on the hot seat, but to me that's not "make or break".
 
Waquoit said:
I really do. Manuel practically said so. A losing record and he's gone.
Expand ...
That would be a mistake of epic proportion. Football coaches deserve enough time to get their own recruits into their system.
 
Waquoit said:
I really do. Manuel practically said so. A losing record and he's gone.
Expand ...

No. Manuel said a losing record doesn't meet our standards for the football program. Pasqualoni would agree. It doesn't. That doesn't mean that everyone's first thought about the way to fix the problem will be to fire a coach who is barely getting started.

In any case, we're not going to have a losing record, barring a rash of injuries, so this whole issue is moot.
 
.-.
P's situation is different than most new HCs. he wasn't brought in to lift a sinking ship, he was brought in to replace a relatively successful coach so things need to be handled differently. we can't go from 4 straight bowl games to missing two in a row and call it progress in any way. we've won 8 or more games every season since 2006 except for last year, so two losing seasons in a row is not at all acceptable, regardless of how long he's been here. again i think this is a silly argument b/c i can't imagine us having another losing season with our talent and schedule, but if we do P's seat will be scorching. if he took over a 3 win team things would be different, but he got one transition year, he doesn't get 3.
 
Waquoit said:
I really do. Manuel practically said so. A losing record and he's gone.
Expand ...

I feel like I should frame this above quote. I'm not trying to pick on you personally, but if we have a 5-7 or 4-8 year, I would be shocked beyond belief if they got rid of Pasqualoni. There is just no way in hell. The man's first recruiting class kids are freshman now. It is an insane idea to fire someone after 2 years, especially when that person has a boatload of experience and a winning track record.

Hell, even Kragthorpe got more respect than that!!
 
Whole discussion is moot. Were going to be in contention for the big east title this year. Only way were not, is if the OL turns into an unmitigated disaster due to injuries.
 
I think Duffy is spot on. don't think Manuel-Herbst will tolerate a repeat of last year's horrendous vandy-iowa state-w. mich run
 
UConnDan97 said:
I feel like I should frame this above quote. I'm not trying to pick on you personally, but if we have a 5-7 or 4-8 year, I would be shocked beyond belief if they got rid of Pasqualoni. There is just no way in hell. The man's first recruiting class kids are freshman now. It is an insane idea to fire someone after 2 years, especially when that person has a boatload of experience and a winning track record.

Hell, even Kragthorpe got more respect than that!!
Expand ...

Go right ahead and frame it. What are you going to do if you are wrong? The Kragthorpe comparison is not valid because he was hired by the same guy who fired him. P's not Manuel's guy. That's a big deal. Ask Karl Hobbs.

With the players on the team right now and the soft schedule, a losing record would be unacceptable. Now having said that, I think this entire discussion is moot because I think were are going to be over-.500.
 
businesslawyer said:
You would have to have a disaster of a coach to want to get rid of him after just two seasons. I can't imagine how bad this season would have to be for me to want or expect P to be fired.
Expand ...

See MD
 
.-.
They might not fire P for another losing season, but they sure as heck will be looking for his replacement during year 3.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
 
Waquoit said:
Go right ahead and frame it. What are you going to do if you are wrong? The Kragthorpe comparison is not valid because he was hired by the same guy who fired him. P's not Manuel's guy. That's a big deal. Ask Karl Hobbs.

With the players on the team right now and the soft schedule, a losing record would be unacceptable. Now having said that, I think this entire discussion is moot because I think were are going to be over-.500.
Expand ...

First, if I'm wrong, I'll be extremely unhappy because it means we had a losing record. But the guy is not going to lose his job. I'll believe it when I see it.

I agree with you on one thing, though; we'll be over .500. And forget the Karl Hobbs comparison; give me a football coach that you can make a fair comparison to; one that kissed his job goodbye after 2 years (regardless of AD situation but also without scandal). I'd love to hear one...
 
UConnDan97 said:
I feel like I should frame this above quote. I'm not trying to pick on you personally, but if we have a 5-7 or 4-8 year, I would be shocked beyond belief if they got rid of Pasqualoni. There is just no way in hell. The man's first recruiting class kids are freshman now. It is an insane idea to fire someone after 2 years, especially when that person has a boatload of experience and a winning track record.

Hell, even Kragthorpe got more respect than that!!
Expand ...

frame it so we can all sit around and laugh at it while we're tailgating before the Orange Bowl

this really is a silly argument because not one person here thinks his job will be in danger this time next year. personally, i (and many others, maybe including Manual) think it would be if he turned in a 4-5 win season, but since nobody is expecting anything close to that we shouldsave our bickering for something someone thinks will actually happen. we might as well argue about what color the Easter Bunny's eyes are
 
mattp said:
we might as well argue about what color the Easter Bunny's eyes are
Expand ...

They're blue! I don't even know why we would argue about that, because everyone should know that already... ;)
 
Barring an off the field situation firing a football coach after 2 years is very rare. That being said if Manuel doesn't see hope with PP as the coach then he should cut the cord. Better now then in 4 years.

I would be very surprised if PP is our head coach going into 2014, I thought he was a horrible hire and I think Manuel agrees.
 
.-.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,311
Messages
4,562,638
Members
10,459
Latest member
SeanElAmin


Top Bottom