Kentucky recruiting (I know slippery slope)

[80shusky]

I don't understand why the top players think that playing at Kentucky or Duke or North Carolina or for Cal or whoever is going to get them into the NBA after one year. The borderline kids, who aren't top talents, I can understand thinking that a top program with better TV exposure is going to help get you to the league. The top talents are going in the draft anyway. Skal is a lottery pick without Cal. Ben Simmons could have played a year of college at Fairfield and he'd still be a top lottery pick. Interesting that he picked LSU over the "blue bloods" in his case though.

 

[mauconnfan]

Ok so you need to give Cal some credit her for sure, actually a ton of credit. I mean he has kids and their parents brainwashed into thinking he's the KING of getting their kid into the next level. It's coming with a price though and we saw it last year and will se it more & more until people get smarter. There's no doubt the talk of "this guy will leave, we'll make this guy great and he will leave" makes kids sign to be the next great. But when a kid realizes, and his parents too, he's not ready or he actually likes school (the one's that see class that is) and he stays he ruins all of Cal's promises for the next year. The Harrison twins killed him but he couldn't very well tell them to leave, they didn't get much better under his tutelage. Neither has Lee and a few others, more than we believe. No excuses on titles when you have that talent year in year out. Truth is if you actually made them NBA ready as you say shouldn't you win a lot of titles since they are the best players in the NCAA?

Fraud

 

[Rocktheworld]

I don't understand why the top players think that playing at Kentucky or Duke or North Carolina or for Cal or whoever is going to get them into the NBA after one year. The borderline kids, who aren't top talents, I can understand thinking that a top program with better TV exposure is going to help get you to the league. The top talents are going in the draft anyway. Skal is a lottery pick without Cal. Ben Simmons could have played a year of college at Fairfield and he'd still be a top lottery pick. Interesting that he picked LSU over the "blue bloods" in his case though.

As I said, that's not what it's about anymore. It's about these 17-18 year olds wanting to and getting hyped on ESPN every day. And those three programs are in a different echelon of exposure. It's some cheap , but they're 17-18 year olds and are mesmerized by that kind of stuff.

 

[BRS24]

I don't understand why the top players think that playing at Kentucky or Duke or North Carolina or for Cal or whoever is going to get them into the NBA after one year. The borderline kids, who aren't top talents, I can understand thinking that a top program with better TV exposure is going to help get you to the league. The top talents are going in the draft anyway. Skal is a lottery pick without Cal. Ben Simmons could have played a year of college at Fairfield and he'd still be a top lottery pick. Interesting that he picked LSU over the "blue bloods" in his case though.

I agree. What I don't get, but perhaps not important to 16-17 y/o, is how can you compare Cal to Ollie? Yeah, Cal gets his kids drafted in first round, but are they prepared for a long term NBA career? Compare that to Ollie, who had to fight for each and every contract, and managed to piece together a pretty fine NBA career.

 

[BUConn10]

I think it's kinda funny when UConn fans say "I'm glad UConn isn't a OAD program" as if Ollie is turning these kids down or that he's capable of bringing in Cal-type classes. Recruiting at his level has gone beyond the traditional game, and has more to do with his extensive NBA connections with agents and scouts, he knows exactly who is on which teams radar, so he targets guys that are basically guarenteed to be gone after a year, and that's part of his recruiting pitch, which is why the kids follow through and you see all these guys who are supposed to go elsewhere (Bam Adebayo, Monk) "surprising" everyone when they go UK.

Also a prediction: I predict Wenyen Gabriel declassifies from UK before the 2016 season and goes to Maryland.

 

[tcf15]

I think it's kinda funny when UConn fans say "I'm glad UConn isn't a OAD program" as if Ollie is turning these kids down or that he's capable of bringing in Cal-type classes. Recruiting at his level has gone beyond the traditional game, and has more to do with his extensive NBA connections with agents and scouts, he knows exactly who is on which teams radar, so he targets guys that are basically guarenteed to be gone after a year, and that's part of his recruiting pitch, which is why the kids follow through and you see all these guys who are supposed to go elsewhere (Bam Adebayo, Monk) "surprising" everyone when they go UK.

Also a prediction: I predict Wenyen Gabriel declassifies from UK before the 2016 season and goes to Maryland.

Would be hard for him to do - he already signed his LOI.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Would be hard for him to do - he already signed his LOI.

I don't get what some of these guys are thinking. If Marcus Lee doesn't declare, although i expect him to, they have him, Willis, Humphries, Adebayo, Killeya-Jones, and Wenyen at the 4/5, that is a logjam and a half.

 

[caw]

I don't get what some of these guys are thinking. If Marcus Lee doesn't declare, although i expect him to, they have him, Willis, Humphries, Adebayo, Killeya-Jones, and Wenyen at the 4/5, that is a logjam and a half.

Pretty sure Wenyen was promised the three...

 

[Jaker]

I laugh at how bad Calipari is fleecing BBN.

 

[TheChamps990411]

The attitude of, "it worked in the past so it will always work" is exactly how people get surprised by change. Coaches have had to adapt as kids changed and as the game changed. Assuming what worked in the past will always work is the opposite of adapting. Coach K has adapted and that is why he won another one last year. If coach K decided that he needed to get some one and done players to keep up with squiddy, maybe it is a good idea. KO built our current team on four star players and transfers. The transfers are actually the key to whatever success they have. It might turn out to be a great approach to fighting the talent hoarding at Kentucky and Duke but I am not sure there will be a Gibbs and Miller out there every year.

I understand what you`re saying i just dont see the big deal with the one and done thing. The only thing one and dones do for your program is theyll keep you in the tourney every year ill give you that. But that doesnt guarantee anything at all and if you look at this one and done formula Squid is using since 2009 its produced 4 final fours and 1 national title. Uconn doing it their way in that time has 3 final fours and 2 titles.

Until schools with Uber recruiting classes start dominating the tourney every year im not going to lament the fact that we dont get one and dones. In fact while i would like to see Ollie pull in a UK type class sometime i really do enjoy watching the talented kids that we bring in that go on to do great things over 2 or 3 years.

 

[tzznandrew]

I laugh at how bad Calipari is fleecing BBN.

Unless they take away the title and all the Final Fours, I fail to see how he is fleecing them. In his time there, their results are:

E8
FF
NC
NIT
Runner-up
FF

I mean, only two teams in the country wouldn't trade with BBN. That's it.

 

[Jaker]

We pay for titles, not final 4 banners.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

I understand what you`re saying i just dont see the big deal with the one and done thing. The only thing one and dones do for your program is theyll keep you in the tourney every year ill give you that. But that doesnt guarantee anything at all and if you look at this one and done formula Squid is using since 2009 its produced 4 final fours and 1 national title. Uconn doing it their way in that time has 3 final fours and 2 titles.

Until schools with Uber recruiting classes start dominating the tourney every year im not going to lament the fact that we dont get one and dones. In fact while i would like to see Ollie pull in a UK type class sometime i really do enjoy watching the talented kids that we bring in that go on to do great things over 2 or 3 years.

It's not this complicated. The best players are in college for one year. If Duke wants to sign the best players, they need to sign some kids that are going to be in school for one year. That's pretty much it. And I don't buy this notion that Ollie has some philosophy about building a program on four year players and grad transfers. Over the long haul, that's a recipe for a second tier team. It's been the way the ball has bounced in his first couple seasons but if guys like Paesano really think that Ollie would turn down Jason Tatum or Jamal Murray or any of these other guys they're flat out insane.

Incidentally, it's obviously a generalization but look at who the young future stars in the NBA are right now. It's not the kids, by and large, that were in school for four years.

 

[tzznandrew]

We pay for titles, not final 4 banners.

Sure, but he isn't fleecing them. He's got one of those, too.

Let's be honest: if Ollie has a run like that, ever, he's guaranteed to make the HOF. I mean, in that one run of 5 years Cal equalled every major accomplishment of Jim Boeheim. And JB is in the hall.

 

[Paesano]

nlah blah blah something stupid...if guys like Paesano really think that Ollie would turn down Jason Tatum or Jamal Murray or any of these other guys they're flat out insane...blah blah blah something stupid

Listen, moron, if anyone is insane it us the guy who thinks the voices in his head are real and that would be you. While some people here might think Ollie intentionally recruits 4 star players that will stay for 4 years, I have never been one of them. In fact, I have said several times that I think he would love more of those players but that he doesn't get any of them because he plays the game cleanly, unlike your hero the squid.

Are you ever going to tell us why you are such a squid fanboy? Did you grow up in MA and go to UConn? The other way around perhaps? You seem too dim to gave gotten an undergrad degree at one school and a grad degree at the other.

 

[Paesano]

And, to clarify, when I say "more of those players" I mean unanimous 5 star players that may only stick around a year or two. Yeah, he would take one or two a year but he isn't willing to do what it takes to get them and that comes from a source far closer to him than you will ever be.

Hopefully Diallo will be a rare exception.

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Are you ever going to tell us why you are such a squid fanboy? Did you grow up in MA and go to UConn? The other way around perhaps? You seem too dim to gave gotten an undergrad degree at one school and a grad degree at the other.

I could have sworn you posted something about your grandkid once, so you're obviously not an eight year old, but you definitely post like one.

Incidentally, since you've got this figured out, and since you know that Ollie "isn't willing to do what it takes" to get "unanimous 5 star players," tell me what rules Coach K or Bill Self are breaking to get those kids, or is it just Calipari that sends guys with bags of cash in your fantasy-land? Oh, that's right, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[champs99and04]

There are reasons not to go to UK, but the only thing stranger than the reaction to Cal's recruiting results is the notion that he is somehow wronging these kids, or "brainwashing them." How? The guy has put a billion guys in the NBA (and not just bench types, bonafide superstars), so if you're goal is to get to the NBA, it's been proven you're better off going to Kentucky or Duke than UCLA or Indiana or Baylor.

Actually, stranger than that is the idea that the abolishment of the one-and-done would disintegrate Cal's system. I would argue quite the opposite - I mean he had one of his best teams ever last season and only started one freshman. The guy can skin a cat in multiple ways and will continue to do so (see Tyler Ulis).

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Look, paesano, another Calipari fanboy! Drop one of your theories on him.

 

[tzznandrew]

There are reasons not to go to UK, but the only thing stranger than the reaction to Cal's recruiting results is the notion that he is somehow wronging these kids, or "brainwashing them." How? The guy has put a billion guys in the NBA (and not just bench types, bonafide superstars), so if you're goal is to get to the NBA, it's been proven you're better off going to Kentucky or Duke than UCLA or Indiana or Baylor.

Actually, stranger than that is the idea that the abolishment of the one-and-done would disintegrate Cal's system. I would argue quite the opposite - I mean he had one of his best teams ever last season and only started one freshman. The guy can skin a cat in multiple ways and will continue to do so (see Tyler Ulis).

I think making his talent a little weaker (taking away Anthony Davis, for instance) would even the playing field a bit. So too, I think, would making the NBA age limit 20, since a player like Nerlens Noel might not be comfortable sitting behind Davis.

But the guy isn't a bad coach. He adapts well. You don't have to like him to know he can coach (those UMass teams were very good without this type of challenge). He a scummy guy and not a great in-game coach, but he can recruit and game-plan well. You can't go to 4 Final Fours and win a title in 5 years without being good at this coaching thing.

 

[champs99and04]

I think making his talent a little weaker (taking away Anthony Davis, for instance) would even the playing field a bit. So too, I think, would making the NBA age limit 20, since a player like Nerlens Noel might not be comfortable sitting behind Davis.

But the guy isn't a bad coach. He adapts well. You don't have to like him to know he can coach (those UMass teams were very good without this type of challenge). He a scummy guy and not a great in-game coach, but he can recruit and game-plan well. You can't go to 4 Final Fours and win a title in 5 years without being good at this coaching thing.

Taking away Anthony Davis would certainly even the playing field...but under the scenario you present (age limit 20), wouldn't he be there for two years instead of one? I agree that Noel opts to go elsewhere if Davis is in the fold, and you can probably say the same about Poythress, Goodwin, WCS, etc.

You're right that the implementation of a higher age limit would strengthen the overall talent pool. If Wall and Cousins are around for two, there's probably no Knight, Jones, etc. Maybe Knight goes to UConn.

To me, though, the rich get richer the longer you postpone draft entrance. The teams with the best players typically win...but they're a hell of a lot more vulnerable with freshman than sophomores.

 

[tzznandrew]

Taking away Anthony Davis would certainly even the playing field...but under the scenario you present (age limit 20), wouldn't he be there for two years instead of one? I agree that Noel opts to go elsewhere if Davis is in the fold, and you can probably say the same about Poythress, Goodwin, WCS, etc.

You're right that the implementation of a higher age limit would strengthen the overall talent pool. If Wall and Cousins are around for two, there's probably no Knight, Jones, etc. Maybe Knight goes to UConn.

To me, though, the rich get richer the longer you postpone draft entrance. The teams with the best players typically win...but they're a hell of a lot more vulnerable with freshman than sophomores.

But you also spread that talent around more when it is a two-year gig, I think, relative to what it is now.

Does Terrence Jones go to UK with Cousins in front of him? Instead he goes to Washington, right? Not all these players are choosing between Duke and UK, and suddenly Top 10 talent is spread out further.

 

[tcf15]

But you also spread that talent around more when it is a two-year gig, I think, relative to what it is now.

Does Terrence Jones go to UK with Cousins in front of him? Instead he goes to Washington, right? Not all these players are choosing between Duke and UK, and suddenly Top 10 talent is spread out further.

But if they can't even leave after the first year, playing right away might not be as much as an incentive as it is right now with the one year rule.

 

[tzznandrew]

But if they can't even leave after the first year, playing right away might not be as much as an incentive as it is right now with the one year rule.

True, but there are actually fewer roster spots available on the team.

Bledsoe, Wall, Cousins, and Orton would have likely meant that Jones and Knight went elsewhere, in part because there wasn't space. Now, obviously, a team with those 4 on it are better than what was put out there for us, but then you realize there's a stacking effect, and the talent can and will often get spread because there's consistently fewer roster spots, so the teams they play are also deeper and better.

 

[intlzncster]

But if they can't even leave after the first year, playing right away might not be as much as an incentive as it is right now with the one year rule.

For top guys, I gotta think that playing time is always a top priority. Especially these days, when everyone and their mother has been calling them the next Lebron for last 10 years. Lebron does not sit the bench.

 

[BUConn10]

All the one-and-done rule is doing currently is consolidating the elite freshman talent each year (the so called "one and dones") at a select few schools each year. Now whether you think OADs help or hurt a programs aim of winning is a completely different debate. But as it stands, the system encourages these guys to play at really 3 or 4 of the same schools each year due to their (a) massive turnover year to year due to being fully invested in the OAD system and (b) their level of national recognition within the media which is an essential factor in a OADs decision.

 

[Paesano]

I could have sworn you posted something about your grandkid once, so you're obviously not an eight year old, but you definitely post like one.

Incidentally, since you've got this figured out, and since you know that Ollie "isn't willing to do what it takes" to get "unanimous 5 star players," tell me what rules Coach K or Bill Self are breaking to get those kids, or is it just Calipari that sends guys with bags of cash in your fantasy-land? Oh, that's right, you have no idea what you're talking about.

You really are a douchy moron. I don't have to "figure anything out". I was told by someone very close to Ollie what the deal is and, surprise, it was pretty much what I suspected all along. You are the one who doesn't have a clue what you are talking about. But you will never see it because you are weak little man who won't even answer a simple question. Why are you a Calipari fanboy? Listen champ, everyone here knows you are. Just tell us why. Is it because I am right that you have some tie to umess, either as a former student or as a former resident? It would suck to have to verify that I was right again, wouldn't it? Come on man, be proud of who you are! Embrace it! Don't be ashamed of it.

 

[Paesano]

There are reasons not to go to UK, but the only thing stranger than the reaction to Cal's recruiting results is the notion that he is somehow wronging these kids, or "brainwashing them." How? The guy has put a billion guys in the NBA (and not just bench types, bonafide superstars), so if you're goal is to get to the NBA, it's been proven you're better off going to Kentucky or Duke than UCLA or Indiana or Baylor.

Actually, stranger than that is the idea that the abolishment of the one-and-done would disintegrate Cal's system. I would argue quite the opposite - I mean he had one of his best teams ever last season and only started one freshman. The guy can skin a cat in multiple ways and will continue to do so (see Tyler Ulis).

He isn't brainwashing them. He is buying them. Big difference.