Kentucky (16) @ Tennessee (13) - 1/10/19

-

Who will win this game?


  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .

DefenseBB

Snark is always appreciated!
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
3,073
Likes
4,448
I..... I would suggest that with the talent advantage the Lady Vols have now and have had in the Holly era.... that winning in the SEC (yes even the SEC) should be relatively easy

.... 25 wins a year means you have 10 losses... that is not hard to do IMHO From memory, I think Alabama has beaten Tennessee a few times in a row... how does that happen?
Bayer, I appreciate your thoughtful reply so let me counter with a few points on your comments I edited
Dawn’s NC team was very talented with some AA’s so she earned her titles that Holly would not have won easily. Last year, Tenn had two supremely talented Seniors and 5 talented freshman, tough mix to win a Conference title with. However Vic won with only 1 AA (Vivians) and some well developed players (#2/#3 on my list) so in my view, yes Holly had talent but not overly so with 5 freshman so winning easily is an overstatement.
Tenn has been 25-8, 20-12, 22-14, 30-6
Georgia had a great year last year at 26-7 but had 21, 16, 19 wins it previous seasons without AA’s
Mizzou also had a great year last year with 24-8 but had 22, 22, 19 wins its previous seasons with just Sophie
And your aforementioned Kentucky had 15 wins last year, 22, 25, and 24
All of which reaffirms my point that getting 20+ wins ANNUALLY is incredibly hard.
For the total wins it’s
Tenn 97
Georgia 82
Mizzou 87
Kentucky 86

I get that Holly inherited a Rolls Royce and is scratching the exterior, however the car is still running pretty well and significantly better than most.

And now, I need to take a long hard look in the mirror at myself to see how my inner Lady Vol found the day of light..:confused:
 
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
6,677
Likes
11,337
Bayer, I appreciate your thoughtful reply so let me counter with a few points on your comments I edited
Dawn’s NC team was very talented with some AA’s so she earned her titles that Holly would not have won easily. Last year, Tenn had two supremely talented Seniors and 5 talented freshman, tough mix to win a Conference title with. However Vic won with only 1 AA (Vivians) and some well developed players (#2/#3 on my list) so in my view, yes Holly had talent but not overly so with 5 freshman so winning easily is an overstatement.
Tenn has been 25-8, 20-12, 22-14, 30-6
Georgia had a great year last year at 26-7 but had 21, 16, 19 wins it previous seasons without AA’s
Mizzou also had a great year last year with 24-8 but had 22, 22, 19 wins its previous seasons with just Sophie
And your aforementioned Kentucky had 15 wins last year, 22, 25, and 24
All of which reaffirms my point that getting 20+ wins ANNUALLY is incredibly hard.
For the total wins it’s
Tenn 97
Georgia 82
Mizzou 87
Kentucky 86

I get that Holly inherited a Rolls Royce and is scratching the exterior, however the car is still running pretty well and significantly better than most.

And now, I need to take a long hard look in the mirror at myself to see how my inner Lady Vol found the day of light..:confused:

BLASPHEMER :eek::eek::eek:
 
Joined
Jan 26, 2016
Messages
9,335
Likes
11,645
I will say that no matter what her coaching inadequacies, almost no one in all of WCBB has recruited better than Holly the past 3 years. Regardless of how many games she loses, there is no one who could replace her and recruit better. Now, getting the team to play better is a totally different discussion.
Holly is universally known as a great recruiter because she attracts so many highly ranked high school players to Tennessee......but isn't part of being a great recruiter the ability to identify which players can mesh together to form a cohesive unit? I view her as more a collector of shiny objects that she puts on the court hoping that their superior physical abilities will overcome their lack of team play....that might get you 25 wins a year but it's not going to win you any championships which I assume is Tennessee's ultimate goal......
 

HuskyNan

Administrator
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
14,155
Likes
26,207
Yes, I saw that. These two games makes me wish every questionable call was reveiwed real time like football and could be overturned by officials not on the floor. Also think refs need to be evaluated for performance and definitely not allowed to ref tournament game unless their performance is up to a certain standard. iMHO, None of the ref in these two games should be allowed to ref in tournament.
The amazing thing is, it was reviewed on the monitor by all three refs.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
276
Likes
607
I've posted before about Holly Warwick's performance or lack of but have held my tongue lately. I watched the end of the KY game and while it probably shouldn't have been so close, KY made some tough shots and UT just didn't close the deal. I have no plans to watch the entire game but reading some of the comments it sounds like more of the same.

Warlick has one one the toughest jobs in the country and while she's not exactly done a bad job, I truly don't see them being any better than this while she's at the helm. The knee jerk reactions have been a little melodramatic but the LV faithful are about to completely jump ship. The university is focused on football and that's not going to change.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
9,696
Likes
13,422
Well, I did rewatch the game.

The first thing I feel compelled to say is just what an awful, aesthetically hideous brand of basketball this game was. My gawd. I know we've come to expect this from Tennessee, but it doesn't cease to be galling.

Secondly, it's almost unbelievable that Kentucky could hang on despite the foul and injury woes:
  • Point guard Taylor Murray was taken out by the hard foul from Z. Green at the end of the 1st half. She did not return.
  • Rhyne Howard picked up her 4th foul just 1:15 into 3Q, and then fouled out with 7:36 left in 4Q. She only played 14 minutes.
  • Maci Morris wasn't far behind, fouling out with 4:19 left.
So Kentucky had to play the entire 2nd half with no point guard, 26 minutes without their leading scorer, and the final 4:19 without their 2nd-best scorer.

Tennessee got 28 offensive rebounds (out of 41 missed shots) and still couldn't find a way to win over a depleted opponent. No wonder the Tennessee fans are so apoplectic.
 
Last edited:

oldude

bamboo lover
Joined
Nov 15, 2016
Messages
7,945
Likes
24,171
Everyone on this thread should take a road trip to VolNation. LV fans are brutal right now with threads demanding a top coach be hired, suggesting that if Pat Summit were the AD, she would fire HW and lamenting the fact that attendance is down and mediocrity is now the expectation in Knoxville.
 
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Messages
2,373
Likes
3,037
Plebe, you must not have proof read your post. I watched the game so I know what you meant. However, some did not watch the game. Kentucky, not Tennessee, played the entire 2nd half with no point guard, etc. Just messing with you.
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
9,696
Likes
13,422
Plebe, you must not have proof read your post. I watched the game so I know what you meant. However, some did not watch the game. Kentucky, not Tennessee, played the entire 2nd half with no point guard, etc. Just messing with you.
Oops, thanks. I'll correct now.
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
1,665
Likes
1,650
Everyone on this thread should take a road trip to VolNation. LV fans are brutal right now with threads demanding a top coach be hired, suggesting that if Pat Summit were the AD, she would fire HW and lamenting the fact that attendance is down and mediocrity is now the expectation in Knoxville.
Yes oldude you are certainly correct.... 95 percent want her ouster.... but it is also fair to say that it was a very slow transition.... i gave Holly a pass the year (2011 - 12) she was defacto HC for Pat, and Pat was on the bench but having no role.... but but the following year.... when Holly took control with HC title... it was apparent that she did not have a tight grip on the team.... and was bad as game coach and making adjustments.... Volnation seemed to stay loyal to her for the most part quite a while after that.... it will be interesting to see what they do.... my guess is that the Tenn AD will place all effort into football
 

DefenseBB

Snark is always appreciated!
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
3,073
Likes
4,448
Yes oldude you are certainly correct.... 95 percent want her ouster.... but it is also fair to say that it was a very slow transition.... i gave Holly a pass the year (2011 - 12) she was defacto HC for Pat, and Pat was on the bench but having no role.... but but the following year.... when Holly took control with HC title... it was apparent that she did not have a tight grip on the team.... and was bad as game coach and making adjustments.... Volnation seemed to stay loyal to her for the most part quite a while after that.... it will be interesting to see what they do.... my guess is that the Tenn AD will place all effort into football
95% might be a bit high, but given the majority do, and let’s say Fulmer agrees, WHO exactly do these fans think will take the job? No former Vol player is worthy as a Head Coach. Would they trust the program to a top assistant like Niele Ivey or a Shea Ralph- Both of which might be viewed as NDs or UConns next Coaches.
Or a Katie Henderson-Abrahamson type?
This debate has raged on this board about Geno’s successor and what is most important, recruiting or coaching. There is no self evident answer-what do you think?
 

Rocket009

Santa Cruz. CA
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
692
Likes
1,064
Everyone on this thread should take a road trip to VolNation. LV fans are brutal right now with threads demanding a top coach be hired, suggesting that if Pat Summit were the AD, she would fire HW and lamenting the fact that attendance is down and mediocrity is now the expectation in Knoxville.
There is a core group on VolNation that come out whenever they loose a game to demand Holly's head. I think Holly is doing great job at TN and has them exactly where they deserve to be. The AD should consider giving her a lifetime appointment. It's what the fans there deserve :D
 

SJF

Joined
Jan 24, 2018
Messages
57
Likes
104
Some are wondering why 5* players continue to go to UT knowing that they are not going to be Coached up or challenged everyday to practice hard and get better! They don't want to be challenged or Coached up!
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
1,028
Likes
948
Holly is universally known as a great recruiter because she attracts so many highly ranked high school players to Tennessee.but isn't part of being a great recruiter the ability to identify which players can mesh together to form a cohesive unit? I view her as more a collector of shiny objects that she puts on the court hoping that their superior physical abilities will overcome their lack of team play....that might get you 25 wins a year but it's not going to win you any championships which I assume is Tennessee's ultimate goal.

Question

Does Holly truly do the recruiting or does Pat's legacy and arena filled with Banners and trophies do that?
 

nwhoopfan

hopeless West Coast homer
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
10,053
Likes
8,355
Question

Does Holly truly do the recruiting or does Pat's legacy and arena filled with Banners and trophies do that?
I'm under the assumption it's the school/program mostly. I can't for the life of me understand why Warlick would be such a big draw.
 

msf22b

Maestro
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
Messages
5,085
Likes
4,284
Holly has done an all-together not too bad a job.
Excellent recruiting, mediocre development and in-game
It's been pointed out that she wins 25 games a year.

Her problem is that's it's just not enough.
This was the storied program...OK, UConn took the mantel.
Their fans expect greatness and they're not getting it...
And won't.

I bet that some of the them are thinking...Wait 'till next year, when we play a depleted UConn...will start our rebirth to greatness.
 

nwhoopfan

hopeless West Coast homer
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
10,053
Likes
8,355
Is Holly a great recruiter or is the Tennessee name great for recruiting?
The only way we would ever know is if she went somewhere else and we could see how she did recruiting. Fairly unlikely though. Whenever Tennessee gets around to relieving her of her duties, I can't really see anyone else coming to call for her services.


UCLA men's hoops has been living off the Wooden legend for like 40 years now. Doesn't matter who they have as coach, they always recruit well. I tend to think with Tennessee women it's the same thing. Recruits are signing up to play for the school, not the coach.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
1,028
Likes
948
I dislike Tennessee but like Holly as a person. I think they will just be limited under her. She will recruit top kids but not know how to use them or mold them into a cohesive team to make runs for national titles.

The roster is filled with All Americans bricking layups and bunnies two feet from the basket. They do not run an offense other than street ball which results in an abnormally high amount of turnovers. There is also zero accountability which is why you continue to see it every week.

Scary to think what Tennessee could do if they had someone who could coach. Tennessee's program and facilities should be able to attract top kids annually itself. Tennessee needs a coach far more than a recruiter.
 
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
1,665
Likes
1,650
95% might be a bit high, but given the majority do, and let’s say Fulmer agrees, WHO exactly do these fans think will take the job? No former Vol player is worthy as a Head Coach. Would they trust the program to a top assistant like Niele Ivey or a Shea Ralph- Both of which might be viewed as NDs or UConns next Coaches.
Or a Katie Henderson-Abrahamson type?
This debate has raged on this board about Geno’s successor and what is most important, recruiting or coaching. There is no self evident answer-what do you think?
DefenseBB - Great question! You asked who the fans think will take the job.... from what I have read on the site.... they think a Kara Lawson will want to hop on board.... or another Lady Vol alum.... 3 or 4 years ago all they could talk about it seemed was Nikki Vargas or Tyler Summit.... oh how things change....

I know Phil Fullmer and TN Nation in general prefer a person with deep ties to the school and program.... and prefer a woman as well.... I say they should look outside..... got to open up the boundaries.....

Need an alpha female.... need someone who can instruct.... and command respect (which Holly is short on)... also need a HC who uses his/her assistants effectively.... if TN assets now are any good why do they not help Holly with her obvious lack of smarts with game coaching and associated decision making
 

DefenseBB

Snark is always appreciated!
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
3,073
Likes
4,448
Is Holly a great recruiter or is the Tennessee name great for recruiting?
Holly uses the program to get the girls to visit AND is able to sign them, so she needs to be respected as a recruiter. Programs themselves don’t just get girls to sign, otherwise schools like Texas (right after Conradt), Duke (right after Goestekors), LaTech after Barmore would all still be powerhouses. Those coaches her followed a legend, were not able to resupply the talent.

Holly is not a developer of talent, her teams are always offensively challenged and her in-game coaching is below average at best. She can AND does know how to recruit. It confounds me why so many need to deride even this one great skill she actually has. Her teams will never win a title, they may sneak in another elite 8 or possibly a final 4 if the top seeds fall, but will never win a NC.
 

DefenseBB

Snark is always appreciated!
Joined
Nov 10, 2016
Messages
3,073
Likes
4,448
I dislike Tennessee but like Holly as a person. I think they will just be limited under her. She will recruit top kids but not know how to use them or mold them into a cohesive team to make runs for national titles.

The roster is filled with All Americans bricking layups and bunnies two feet from the basket. They do not run an offense other than street ball which results in an abnormally high amount of turnovers. There is also zero accountability which is why you continue to see it every week.

Scary to think what Tennessee could do if they had someone who could coach. Tennessee's program and facilities should be able to attract top kids annually itself. Tennessee needs a coach far more than a recruiter.
If programs could recruit players, like you say, why has your storied program fallen on such hard times without top recruits, after all its not the coach right?:rolleyes:
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2018
Messages
1,028
Likes
948
If programs could recruit players, like you say, why has your storied program fallen on such hard times without top recruits, after all its not the coach right?:rolleyes:
LSU never recruited that great outside of when Pokey Chatman was at LSU. Van was serviceable, Nikki has been awful. LSU is no Tennessee either. Not every program can do this but some have more benefits than others. But Tennessee's problems are on coaching. Imagine how some programs would look with the talent Tennessee has...

And I agree who the coach is matters and no matter the program can influence how recruiting goes.
 

Top