Kelly Graves calls out players

[Figurehead]

Well, you did say "There is much more going on internally in this case than what you even know right now. I will leave it at that." That certainly sounds to me like a claim to knowledge that's only available to those in the know, but can't be said publicly.

You also seem to be working so hard to shed green-colored glasses that you sometimes misrepresent --e.g. the claim about Paopao you attribute to Graves was actually made by her coach (unless you think Graves was lying when he reported what she had said)--and/or find somehow unique to Graves and so another indication of his lack of energy/interest/etc. when in fact it's not all that unusual: e.g. "Graves has been on record saying he did not have to coach at that time because he had a coach on the floor named Sabrina. Now that does not seem that right." I don't know if this is an exact quote from Graves, but surely this is the sort of thing (many) other coaches have said when there was a very talented point guard with a high BB IQ on the roster. To be clear, I'm not saying that Graves bears no responsibility for a season that was not just disappointing but also extremely frustrating for many Oregon fans, including this one. But there are plenty of issues to debate without stuff like this.

I think at 10.85 million over 9 years base salary Graves should not be immune from criticism. I could look for the link of the you tube video where Graves expects Prince to be the PAC 12 POY. I guess I am just more into let the play on the court do all the talking than the pre ordained entitlement take, bling and fancy uniforms. It is a nice sell to the fans but at some point it gets old. And I will stand behind the idea that the Oregon program is bigger than Graves. Just as in softball many fans said Coach White was the program. Coach Lombardi is doing well now. I just think in this day an age the buck stops with the coach. He is no saint.

 

[Floridaduck]

First of all he is the guy going around blaming everyone else. Key feelings is it everyone else but him..............It is my program and I will run it the way I want too. He seems entitled more than the players he called out as being entitled.

I guess this is like the story of the blind men and the elephant. I am a hardcore fan of the program and listen to EVERY Graves interview. The above statement is the diametrical opposite of what I hear. But everyone has their own opinion…

 

[Plebe]

He repeatedly praised his team, took responsibility for the loss, and said how much he liked them. Not sure why this is worthy of its own thread.

Probably because ESPN made it a feature story with the headline "Graves calls out his players" or thereabouts.

I agree it's ridiculous and unfair.

 

[Figurehead]

Kelly Graves raves about the upside of Sedona Prince

Oregon women's basketball coach Kelly Graves recounts how Sedona Prince challenged Ruthy Hebard in practice and explains why he believes she could develop into a future No. 1 overall WNBA Draft choice.

www.cbssports.com

There are people to this day that will swear to this day the Sedona Prince is everything mentioned in this video.

Parrish was suppose to be the next Erin Boley. The kids may be stressed a little. Let the play on the court do the talking coach. Many fans take what coach says as gospel and set expectations accordingly and it can be unfair to the kids.

I just don’t see that is the case but she will never be like Oregon States Ruth Hamblin. I listen to many Oregon interviews but I like the ones on duck authority that Matt Prehm and Eric Skopil do because they call it like it is and not what fans just want to hear. I suggest you look them up because they don’t all ways tow the line you get in canned sports coverage. It is okay that everyone has differences in opinions on coaches. I never did like Cristobal in football and the guy was a stellar recruiter. Some just loved his style. To each his own.

 

[cancontent]

Kelly Graves raves about the upside of Sedona Prince

Oregon women's basketball coach Kelly Graves recounts how Sedona Prince challenged Ruthy Hebard in practice and explains why he believes she could develop into a future No. 1 overall WNBA Draft choice.

www.cbssports.com

There are people to this day that will swear to this day the Sedona Prince is everything mentioned in this video.

Parrish was suppose to be the next Erin Boley. The kids may be stressed a little. Let the play on the court do the talking coach. Many fans take what coach says as gospel and set expectations accordingly and it can be unfair to the kids.

I just don’t see that is the case but she will never be like Oregon States Ruth Hamblin. I listen to many Oregon interviews but I like the ones on duck authority that Matt Prehm and Eric Skopil do because they call it like it is and not what fans just want to hear. I suggest you look them up because they don’t all ways tow the line you get in canned sports coverage. It is okay that everyone has differences in opinions on coaches. I never did like Cristobal in football and the guy was a stellar recruiter. Some just loved his style. To each his own.

Could you kindly clarify? I think I'm missing some context as I don't get the Hamblin comparison. Prince has a larger upside in my opinion.

 

[nwhoopfan]

Could you kindly clarify? I think I'm missing some context as I don't get the Hamblin comparison. Prince has a larger upside in my opinion.

When is she going to start fulfilling some of her potential? She's been in college for a long time now, there have been injuries but she has 2 years of actually playing under her belt. Hamblin was a good rebounder and 2X Pac 12 Defensive POY. Prince is soft as butter and seems to have little interest in rebounding or being a defensive presence, and it's not like she's lighting it up scoring either.

I think the comparison is because of height?

 

[cancontent]

When is she going to start fulfilling some of her potential? She's been in college for a long time now, there have been injuries but she has 2 years of actually playing under her belt. Hamblin was a good rebounder and 2X Pac 12 Defensive POY. Prince is soft as butter and seems to have little interest in rebounding or being a defensive presence, and it's not like she's lighting it up scoring either.

I think the comparison is because of height?

I get your point regarding potential. I was asking about the comparison because I believe their styles are very different. Hamblin is your traditional centre and stays just around the paint. Prince can stretch out more and is a tad (just a tad) more agile.

My comment about upside is purely based on her potential. In my opinion if she fully utilizes her skills, she would be a better all around player than Hamblin.

 

[jonson]

I think at 10.85 million over 9 years base salary Graves should not be immune from criticism. I could look for the link of the you tube video where Graves expects Prince to be the PAC 12 POY. I guess I am just more into let the play on the court do all the talking than the pre ordained entitlement take, bling and fancy uniforms. It is a nice sell to the fans but at some point it gets old. And I will stand behind the idea that the Oregon program is bigger than Graves. Just as in softball many fans said Coach White was the program. Coach Lombardi is doing well now. I just think in this day an age the buck stops with the coach. He is no saint.

Of course he shouldn't be immune from criticism. Who said that? And of course he's not bigger than the program (which, as I'm sure you know, is the source of the "bling" and fancy uniforms, not Graves; it is, after all, the Oregon way, and I'm not a fan either). The point--my points, really--are that 1) if you truly have "inside" knowledge, then please share it; and 2) you should at least try to avoid bogus add-ons to what may be legitimate criticisms/questions: the mis-attribution of the Paopao comment, the implications you try to draw from Graves's sideline appearance or his comment about Sabrina doing his coaching for him, among them. (For what it's worth, I completely agree that the Prince Graves described a couple of years ago has been nowhere to be seen, although I don't think he's pretended otherwise this year. And Parrish is certainly not the second coming of Erin Boley.) So he got it wrong--so far anyway--and the program is paying the price.

 

[Ciscokid]

They had a coach named Jody Runge and then made two hiring blunders.

I really liked Jody Runge. How‘s it going now, pos Bill Moos?

 

[nwhoopfan]

I get your point regarding potential. I was asking about the comparison because I believe their styles are very different. Hamblin is your traditional centre and stays just around the paint. Prince can stretch out more and is a tad (just a tad) more agile.

My comment about upside is purely based on her potential. In my opinion if she fully utilizes her skills, she would be a better all around player than Hamblin.

I'm sure the injuries set her back, but at some point buzz words like potential and upside stop having much meaning, and a player is what they have shown themself to be. Maybe she's not there yet, but the clock is ticking.

Unless she makes big strides next year, I'd take Hamblin 1000 times out of 1000 over Prince, even if she's less versatile.

 

[nwhoopfan]

FWIW, I also think they filled different needs on different teams. For the most part, I feel like Rueck has always liked to play at least one traditional center 5 big who isn't going to look to score beyond 5-6 feet from the basket, dribble drive in the lane, or look to take outside shots. By contrast, I feel like Graves is more variable in how he uses his bigs and is happy for them to patrole, sit at the key, take outside shots, or feed to give his guards backdoor cuts. All of which is to say, Rueck got more out of Hamblin than I think Graves would have, and I kind of don't really see Prince fitting as well into Rueck's system, for the same reasons I don't think Kennedy Brown has made as much of a splash as she should and Taylor Jones, who I think is a much more one-dimensional player, has actually, IMHO, been the more important contributor since they both stepped foot in Corvallis a few years ago.

I don't really think this is accurate. Hebard hardly scored a bucket from further away than 5 feet her entire career. Sabally #2 might step outside the paint some, but she's more likely to be operating on the low block. I think Graves likes using 2 posts w/ a high low. Before Prince there was McGwire, who was 6-5 but also would rather shoot jump shots than post up. Sabally #1 doesn't really fit the conversation because she was really more of a 3 than a 4 I'd say. She didn't play much til the end of her career but Giomi almost exclusively scored at the rim (mostly on put backs, they didn't really run any offense for her). Gildon was an undersized post, but I don't think she took many jump shots. Graves had 2 years w/ Alleyne, I don't remember her having a lot of shooting range. Seems like he uses his posts where they are effective, if that's mostly in the key, so be it.

Rueck is not that different. Gulich hit plenty of mid range and even long jumpers (just inside the arc). Brown and Mitrovic will definitely take jumpers. Jones was supposedly working on her shooting range, but we've never seen it. I'm kind of suspecting shoulder issues have been hampering her for most of her career at OSU. Plus he's utilized a stretch 4 plenty of the time he's been there like Hunter and Corosdale, he doesn't always have 2 really tall posts on the floor together.

Hamblin and Prince are very different players, on that I'll agree. But I think you tried oversimplifying on how the coaches use their post players.

Gulich is maybe more of a model of what Prince should be shooting for, and she's lightyears away from where Marie was her final year in Corvallis.

 

[Figurehead]

When is she going to start fulfilling some of her potential? She's been in college for a long time now, there have been injuries but she has 2 years of actually playing under her belt. Hamblin was a good rebounder and 2X Pac 12 Defensive POY. Prince is soft as butter and seems to have little interest in rebounding or being a defensive presence, and it's not like she's lighting it up scoring either.

I think the comparison is because of height?

Yes, I have all ways been very impressed on what Oregon State Coach Rueck can get out of a post player up the road here. Heck yes, Ruth was great at defense. I am sure if Coach Rueck had Sedona she would have a better chance of reaching her potential. Of course Jonson would likely disagree with that because I complimented the program up the road,

 

[Floridaduck]

Please understand that I am not that happy with Graves regarding Oregon’s offensive performance this season. Over reliance on Sabally for a 50% average on post up twos is not gonna cut it when the other team (see Utah and Belmont) is hitting their threes. Master of the pick and roll offense? I didn’t see much ot it. And don’t get me started on the 3 point percentage.

Oregon used to be a fun to watch, let ‘er rip offensive team. Maybe it’s personnel, maybe coaching, maybe missing Mark Campbell and Javier. But I do think this group can find some magic again. Back to the drawing board I guess

 

[Figurehead]

Of course he shouldn't be immune from criticism. Who said that? And of course he's not bigger than the program (which, as I'm sure you know, is the source of the "bling" and fancy uniforms, not Graves; it is, after all, the Oregon way, and I'm not a fan either). The point--my points, really--are that 1) if you truly have "inside" knowledge, then please share it; and 2) you should at least try to avoid bogus add-ons to what may be legitimate criticisms/questions: the mis-attribution of the Paopao comment, the implications you try to draw from Graves's sideline appearance or his comment about Sabrina doing his coaching for him, among them. (For what it's worth, I completely agree that the Prince Graves described a couple of years ago has been nowhere to be seen, although I don't think he's pretended otherwise this year. And Parrish is certainly not the second coming of Erin Boley.) So he got it wrong--so far anyway--and the program is paying the price.

Funny thing about inside knowledge. Everybody has it and Eugene is a small town with alot of interest scattered about. I knew someone a few years ago that worked the counter of one of the three car rental desks at the Eugene Airport. He left the state and moved on since then but is an avid Duck fan. He would see coaches and big name recruits come and go way before the media ever did. And he knew who they were.

I lived at one time just a block down the street from a now retired associate athletic director. So a football player from a few years ago wrecked a rental car in southern Oregon and I asked that associate athletic director about it the next day. He did not know a thing until the police report came across two weeks later. The rental car guy knew that week way before the athletic department ever did. That was the norm that the department knew after the community did on some things

My niece graduated from Oregon and being in the student body she knew some of the volleyball athletes and pretty much knew the inner workings. Softball has an all american pitcher out for the whole year due to an injury pre season. Usually a parent is there talking about the team and someone asked about that player and that parent shared. So parents like to talk during softball games. I don't know basketball parents and have not run across that former associate athletic director yet? Maybe during softball?

 

[Figurehead]

Please understand that I am not that happy with Graves regarding Oregon’s offensive performance this season. Over reliance on Sabally for a 50% average on post up twos is not gonna cut it when the other team (see Utah and Belmont) is hitting their threes. Master of the pick and roll offense? I didn’t see much ot it. And don’t get me started on the 3 point percentage.

Oregon used to be a fun to watch, let ‘er rip offensive team. Maybe it’s personnel, maybe coaching, maybe missing Mark Campbell and Javier. But I do think this group can find some magic again. Back to the drawing board I guess

I have all ways respected your opinion. I just won't grade out Graves as a A l. Maybe a B minus or even a C grade this year.

I was not a Cristobal fan, even though he could recruit as well as anyone in football but his game management made me cringe. And the whole building tough line men and a tough team mantra just did not resonate with me. I don't like the pre hype. A lot of talk but poor field performance, remember that Utah football game where the tough men were pushed around? Dan Lanning is a risk but at least he has the can do energy.

I am more of a show me first , and highly praise later person. Everyone is diiferent in what they want the coaches to be. Same goes for a boss at your work. Different styles I guess.


I like the current volleyball coach a lot. I like the grit the softball team has and they are getting a good return on talent and the current coach gets 100% out of what she has. Altman in mens b-ball is another one I like.

 

[jonson]

Yes, I have all ways been very impressed on what Oregon State Coach Rueck can get out of a post player up the road here. Heck yes, Ruth was great at defense. I am sure if Coach Rueck had Sedona she would have a better chance of reaching her potential. Of course Jonson would likely disagree with that because I complimented the program up the road,

Wow! Where did that come from? I guess you must think you are the only Oregon fan who appreciates what Rueck has done at Oregon State.

I think the key issue for Oregon fans is determining the appropriate level of expectations for a program that doesn't exactly have a stellar history and also does not have a lot of basketball talent living nearby. Another way of putting this is to ask if one can reasonably expect that there will ever be another Oregon team as good as--or close to as good as--the 2019-20 team that gave UCONN its worst loss at Gampel in program history, beat Stanford 3 times by around 70 points total, and had, according to a 538 article, one of the 7 most efficient offenses in WBB history. I think the realistic answer is "probably not," even if I hope otherwise.

So--how does one rate this year? A disappointment, surely, and there are likely a lot of reasons for that, including misjudgments/mishandling on the part of the coaching staff. In another post, you give this year's performance a B- or C. That seems entirely appropriate to me, since I believe that this team should have played better (and more consistent) ball throughout the season and made the sweet 16 in the tournament. But I also think Graves's record earns him a little more patience on the part of Oregon fans.

 

[TheFarmFan]

I think the key issue for Oregon fans is determining the appropriate level of expectations for a program that doesn't exactly have a stellar history and also does not have a lot of basketball talent living nearby. Another way of putting this is to ask if one can reasonably expect that there will ever be another Oregon team as good as--or close to as good as--the 2019-20 team that gave UCONN its worst loss at Gampel in program history, beat Stanford 3 times by around 70 points total, and had, according to a 538 article, one of the 7 most efficient offenses in WBB history. I think the realistic answer is "probably not," even if I hope otherwise.

Respectfully, I gotta disagree with you there a bit. Yes, of course Oregon is never going to be as fruitful as CA or many parts of the midwest and southeast. But Cameron Brink, Mercedes Russell, Evina Westbrook, and Jaime Nared were all top 5ish recruits in the past decade, and a lot of solid role players like Katie McWilliams, Aleah Goodman, have grown up within 50 miles of Eugene. The most striking thing is simply that Oregon has had no success recruiting any homegrown talent. For whatever reason, Rueck has been better about gobbling up the locals.

And, given the state of Washington's programs for most of this past decade, and the lack of good programs in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, or Alaska, there's really not a good reason why Oregon shouldn't be dominating the entire greater Pacific NW. But again, a lot of those top recruits (Mikayla Pivec, the Hull sisters, Brittany McPhee, Slocum, Kaylee Johnson) have gone to OSU or Stanford.

 

[Ciscokid]

At least there are a couple promising locals - I consider Idaho local - coming to the Ducks soon, Sofia Bell (Portland) and Amari Whiting (Burley.) Every fan base needs some home-grown kids, for many reasons. Maybe these two will help turn the tide vs OSU getting the majority.

Except for Bando, you might have to go all the way back to Shaquala Williams, Jenny Mowe and Breanne Meherry (sp) for backyarders. Those were all Runge’s.

 

[jonson]

Respectfully, I gotta disagree with you there a bit. Yes, of course Oregon is never going to be as fruitful as CA or many parts of the midwest and southeast. But Cameron Brink, Mercedes Russell, Evina Westbrook, and Jaime Nared were all top 5ish recruits in the past decade, and a lot of solid role players like Katie McWilliams, Aleah Goodman, have grown up within 50 miles of Eugene. The most striking thing is simply that Oregon has had no success recruiting any homegrown talent. For whatever reason, Rueck has been better about gobbling up the locals.

And, given the state of Washington's programs for most of this past decade, and the lack of good programs in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, or Alaska, there's really not a good reason why Oregon shouldn't be dominating the entire greater Pacific NW. But again, a lot of those top recruits (Mikayla Pivec, the Hull sisters, Brittany McPhee, Slocum, Kaylee Johnson) have gone to OSU or Stanford.

I guess my qualification of your qualification is that it is very difficult to convince any player in whom Tara is interested and qualifies academically to come to a school such as Oregon (Brink, the Hull sisters, McPhee, Johnson). It can happen, of course, (Pivec to OSU; and, as @Ciscokid points out, Brianne Meherry to Oregon 20+ years ago), but not very often--and for reasons both athletic and academic. To put it another way, if one of my daughters had been a first-rate WBB player with offers from Stanford and Oregon, I would have hoped she'd choose the former given everything Stanford has to offer in addition to basketball.

 

[TheFarmFan]

Totally agree. Oregon's challenge is that while there's a fairly fertile recruiting ground in the greater PNW, there's a historically dominant legacy program in its adjacent backyard (Stanford) and OSU had just a few years' head start on Oregon in rebuilding via local talent. Those two programs plus Tennessee have gobbled up most of the best recruits the past decade. (And truly, I have NO idea how Holly developed such a pipeline from Oregon to Tennessee - that one was always a big mystery to me.)

 

[nwhoopfan]

Grr...that Oregon to Tennessee thing. Westbrook was the one that really killed me. At that point both Oregon schools were on the rise and the Vols...weren't.

 

[nwhoopfan]

On the flip side of this problem of PNW schools keeping home grown talent at home, almost all of Washington's best players have come from California, and of course there was Ionescu to Oregon. Cal produces a ton of talent, and they're not all going to choose in state schools, but sometimes it's a bit surprising some of the players they don't keep. (UConn has had a bit of a hand in that too...)

 

[Herman]

Grr...that Oregon to Tennessee thing. Westbrook was the one that really killed me. At that point both Oregon schools were on the rise and the Vols...weren't.

That Westbrook thing made OSU's 2018 NCAA win over Tennessee just a little sweeter.

 

[Figurehead]

Wow! Where did that come from? I guess you must think you are the only Oregon fan who appreciates what Rueck has done at Oregon State.

I think the key issue for Oregon fans is determining the appropriate level of expectations for a program that doesn't exactly have a stellar history and also does not have a lot of basketball talent living nearby. Another way of putting this is to ask if one can reasonably expect that there will ever be another Oregon team as good as--or close to as good as--the 2019-20 team that gave UCONN its worst loss at Gampel in program history, beat Stanford 3 times by around 70 points total, and had, according to a 538 article, one of the 7 most efficient offenses in WBB history. I think the realistic answer is "probably not," even if I hope otherwise.

So--how does one rate this year? A disappointment, surely, and there are likely a lot of reasons for that, including misjudgments/mishandling on the part of the coaching staff. In another post, you give this year's performance a B- or C. That seems entirely appropriate to me, since I believe that this team should have played better (and more consistent) ball throughout the season and made the sweet 16 in the tournament. But I also think Graves's record earns him a little more patience on the part of Oregon fans.

Wow!, You think every Oregon fan has to view things the same way you do.

The issue that you see people having with Graves is not record related but how he is conducting himself. It is his demeanor has changed to a place that some people just don't care for. I think he is not the same guy in how he conducts himself, mannerisms comments and the like. All you have to do is to look at social media and what people comment on. It is not just one opinion out there. He acts not as interested or is dealing with some sort of issues. Holding your head like it is going to explode in a post game presser, what is that?
Not everyone is going to march in lock step in how he handles his team.

 

[Figurehead]

But even I noticed it, and I followed - and sat behind the bench - at Rutgers for years, and it actually took players pleading with her to get Vivian to do any coaching standing. She didn't believe in it. She never looked disinterested. Frustrated, annoyed, reaching for her headache pills, all that. Graves really looked like he wasn't much interested.

Interestingly, I read an article about his son??? playing somewhere and him spending a lot of time going to watch his son play and leaving others to run the team. Whether true or not, it isn't a good look.

Well, Zags are out now. Really thought they were a lock for final four. Just goes to show you the runs UCONN WBB had were impressive. I like the return of parity in sports.