Kansas, Nova, Virginia and the ESPN Hype Machine | The Boneyard

Kansas, Nova, Virginia and the ESPN Hype Machine

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jibsey

jibsey

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It's just been constant all year. These were their network coaching stars Self, Wright, and Bennett, the dream dies hard. So far the only one left out is Roy Williams and his program of term paperback writers.
 
Serious question, when was the last time Kansas hasn't been a 1 or 2 seed? I tried to look it up and couldn't find any info on it but I feel like since Bill Self has been coach they are always a 1 or 2 seed and more often than not, lose in the first weekend.
 
uconnsox23 said:
Serious question, when was the last time Kansas hasn't been a 1 or 2 seed? I tried to look it up and couldn't find any info on it but I feel like since Bill Self has been coach they are always a 1 or 2 seed and more often than not, lose in the first weekend.
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2009 they were a 3.
 
uconnsox23 said:
Serious question, when was the last time Kansas hasn't been a 1 or 2 seed? I tried to look it up and couldn't find any info on it but I feel like since Bill Self has been coach they are always a 1 or 2 seed and more often than not, lose in the first weekend.
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good question, self has been exposed
 
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roy, K, cal, pitino are all bigger stars and advancing to the sweet 16. so did espn underhype them?????? or are they purposely not talking about it as part of a larger conspriacy against uconn? pls respond OP
 
Your point is correct, but your reasoning is way, way off.

Those guys aren't the example of the NCAA / ESPN / fix situation.
 
Kansas never loses at home, so they are good for very few losses, don't play a lot of tough games always predicted in Oct to be good etc.
 
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Kansas was a mystery to me especially after the epic beat down by UK, but why wouldn't they hype nova and uva? 2 loss teams that steam rolled through their respective conferences.

Who should they have been hyping? Teams that are in the sweet 16? Unc looked like garbage up until the acc tourney (and reverted to garbage in the championship), WVU was up and down, msu is only not a surprise because of izzo, Wichita state was questioned all year because of sos, ucla was a joke for 3/4 of the season, etc

UK, duke, and Wisconsin are the only 3 teams that are doing what they're supposed to do right now. Arizona is too, but I don't think they've looked quite as dominant
 
Ollie and Napier certainly got their fair share of positive hype after last year's run. I hate ESPN as much as the next yarder, but to say they hyped teams with 1 or 2 losses most of the season is absurd. I am fairly confident, that if UConn was 30-2, we would be hearing the same sort of buzz.
 
The news is that there is a new King in the state of Kansas, and it ain't the Jayhawks.

I didn't realize that Wichita State has been trying for decades to schedule games with them, and it took the Tournament to make it happen.

Lets see if the narrative now changes to give WSU the recognition and the in state Title they deserve.
 
Well Nova isn't an ESPN darling because they don't even have TV rights to NBE games. That being said, I could be wrong because ESPN produces so much s.hitty content that every year any team is simultaneously one of the best and worst teams of all time.
 
djct1999 said:
Ollie and Napier certainly got their fair share of positive hype after last year's run. I hate ESPN as much as the next yarder, but to say they hyped teams with 1 or 2 losses most of the season is absurd. I am fairly confident, that if UConn was 30-2, we would be hearing the same sort of buzz.
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Based on the fact that we've been one of those dominant teams before and gotten a ton of buzz out of it, I'd tend to agree with you.
 
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Let's play a fun game. Rank the biggest paper tigers in college basketball:

1. Kansas
2. Syracuse
3. Arizona
4. The entire Big East conference
5. UCLA
6. Indiana
7. Virginia
8. The Big 12 conference
9. Other - Write In Nominations
 
I don't get all the Virginia stuff. They had a ton of injuries. That makes them a paper tiger?
 
Either Michigan State and Izzo are awesome or Virginia is a paper tiger. It can't be both.
 
Dooley said:
Let's play a fun game. Rank the biggest paper tigers in college basketball:

1. Kansas
2. Syracuse
3. Arizona
4. The entire Big East conference
5. UCLA
6. Indiana
7. Virginia
8. The Big 12 conference
9. Other - Write In Nominations
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Why is Arizona a paper tiger?

In 2011 they were a 5 seed, destroyed Duke and lost in the E8.

In 2013 they made the S16 as a 6 seed.

In 2014 they were 1-seed who lost to a 2-seed on a controversial travel in the E8.

They've literally performed to seed or better every year Sean Miller has gotten them in the tournament. And this year, as a 2-seed, they're in the S16 playing 6-seed Xavier. My bet is they are back in E8.
 
I posted a long thing in another topic and I'm not going to repeat all of it, but Self's teams consistently overachieve in the regular season (finish higher in final poll than pre-season poll), and thus always have a good seed. Therefore, when they get beat, it's a major upset. If they had been 5 or 6 seeds lower, where probably they deserved to be a few of the years they got upset, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's all about how the narrative is framed by their seeding.

Honestly, we all knew they weren't a 2-seed this year. Anyone who didn't pick Wichita to beat them hasn't been watching this season. But they had a 2-seed's resume, because once again they overachieved this year. They won the Big 12 (the supposed best conference) with 10 freshmen and sophomores. Last year they lost Embiid to injury. And then 8 years ago they got upset twice in a row as high-ish seeds. In Self's other years they made 7 Sweet Sixteens.

UConn has a down year, we miss the tourny. Self's down years are a 2-seed getting beat in round of 64/32.
 
Or maybe Bill Self is a great coach whose teams win 30 games in a down year and they lost to a really good, highly motivated Wichita State team. You know, the team that was in the Final Four two years ago and started 35-0 last season.
 
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Winning is hard in college basketball, which makes UConn's string of rings all the more impressive. People shouldn't expect that they're due for another one anytime soon because very good teams come up short every year. Doesn't mean they're chokers or paper tigers.
 
Inyatkin said:
Either Michigan State and Izzo are awesome or Virginia is a paper tiger. It can't be both.
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Izzo is an "awesome" coach in march. Coupled with several uva injuries, that's what you get.
 
Inyatkin said:
Or maybe Bill Self is a great coach whose teams win 30 games in a down year and they lost to a really good, highly motivated Wichita State team. You know, the team that was in the Final Four two years ago and started 35-0 last season.
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This loss was no surprise. Wichita State wanted to get them badly, and Kansas overachieved all season.

That said, the narrative around Self is there for a reason. They've flamed out with a number of good teams. Were the Northern Iowa game the exception--and you couldn't also point to Bucknell and a number of other schools, it would be wrong.

Not to say the dude is a bad coach. He's actually really good. You can't win any conference that frequently without being a good coach. And he had great tournament runs as a lower seed, most notably taking Tulsa to the E8 in 2000.

I just think the pressure of the moment gets to him sometimes when he's got something to lose (i.e. the higher seed...or like in 2010 the odds on favorite by most to win).
 
tzznandrew said:
This loss was no surprise. Wichita State wanted to get them badly, and Kansas overachieved all season.

That said, the narrative around Self is there for a reason. They've flamed out with a number of good teams. Were the Northern Iowa game the exception--and you couldn't also point to Bucknell and a number of other schools, it would be wrong.

Not to say the dude is a bad coach. He's actually really good. You can't win any conference that frequently without being a good coach. And he had great tournament runs as a lower seed, most notably taking Tulsa to the E8 in 2000.

I just think the pressure of the moment gets to him sometimes when he's got something to lose (i.e. the higher seed...or like in 2010 the odds on favorite by most to win).
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Eh, maybe. You're a top-2 seed every year, you're going to have some flameouts. But he has a title, other Final Fours and they never have a down year. The number of schools that wouldn't trade their record for his is really small.
 
auror said:
I posted a long thing in another topic and I'm not going to repeat all of it, but Self's teams consistently overachieve in the regular season (finish higher in final poll than pre-season poll), and thus always have a good seed. Therefore, when they get beat, it's a major upset. If they had been 5 or 6 seeds lower, where probably they deserved to be a few of the years they got upset, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's all about how the narrative is framed by their seeding.

Honestly, we all knew they weren't a 2-seed this year. Anyone who didn't pick Wichita to beat them hasn't been watching this season. But they had a 2-seed's resume, because once again they overachieved this year. They won the Big 12 (the supposed best conference) with 10 freshmen and sophomores. Last year they lost Embiid to injury. And then 8 years ago they got upset twice in a row as high-ish seeds. In Self's other years they made 7 Sweet Sixteens.

UConn has a down year, we miss the tourny. Self's down years are a 2-seed getting beat in round of 64/32.
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What are you talking about? Bill Self has been bringing in Calipari type talent for years now. How have they been overachieving?

They had the top 2 picks in the draft last year and got a gift 2 seed last year with 10 losses. They've lost 20 games in the last two years with 7 top 10 recruits.
 
Inyatkin said:
Eh, maybe. You're a top-2 seed every year, you're going to have some flameouts. But he has a title, other Final Fours and they never have a down year. The number of schools that wouldn't trade their record for his is really small.
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You are. But I think there are more here than there should be.

He overachieved his first year as a 1 seed in 2004, taking them to the E8 (although he did get a 12 seed in the second round and a 9 seed rather than the 1 seed in the S16).

He promptly lost to a 14 seed (Bucknell) and a 13 seed (Bradley) the next two years.

In 2007, he made the E8 as a 1 and lost to 2 UCLA. Fine.

In 2008 he won the whole damn thing.

2009 they were a 3 seed and lost to 2 seed Michigan state. Fine.

2010 they were a 1 seed and lost to 9 Northern Iowa.

2011 they were a 1 seed and lost in the E8 to 11 VCU (akin to our George Mason loss).

2012 they lost in the title game as a 2 seed.

2013 they lost as a 1 to a 4 (akin to our Mississippi State loss).

In the last two years, in the second round as a 2 seed, they've lost to a 10 and a 7.

All in all, they've planted on their faces more than they should. You could make the argument that planting on your face early in the tournament is better than not making it--especially when they have a good regular season. That's fine. I probably agree.

But damn, I would think they should have more than 2 Final Fours with all those 1 and 2 seeds (8 in Self's time).
 
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