Kansas braces for changing consumer climate with ESPN3 deal

[frankthetank]

Frank you sound like the Kansas might be holding the cards to CR movement. I agree whole heartedly that they are attractive to the B1G and that the Big 12 better keep them happy, but what would it take for them to move. Just being closer to the end of the GOR doesn't seem enough to me.

Well, like I've said elsewhere, I don't think anyone is moving prior to the end (or near the end) of the grant of rights period. Make no mistake about it, though - if the Big Ten can offer Kansas alone and Kansas can, in turn, leave alone from a political standpoint, it wouldn't take any convincing of KU at all to move. They'd join the Big Ten in a heartbeat if it were left to their own devices. The issue, though, is the "alone" part. As someone else mentioned, the fate of Kansas State can be a very large political roadblock. There's a similar dynamic in play with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. That's why it has always been misleading to say that (a) Kansas was almost left behind when the Big 12 was on the verge of collapse and (b) the Pac-12 rejected Oklahoma when A&M announced that it was leaving for the SEC. Technically, both are true, but it had nothing to do with the intrinsic values of KU and OU. Believe me - the Pac-12 would take a KU/OU expansion immediately and the Big Ten and SEC likely would, as well. The hangup has always been their little brothers - none of those conferences want to take on Kansas State or Oklahoma State (at least without *both* Oklahoma and Texas with respect to the latter).

 

[Fishy]

I've lived in Maryland.

You're dreaming.

DC is a lot like NYC except more so in that no one who lives there is from there. As for the state of Maryland, they don't burn for Maryland athletics...to put it mildly.

The Big Ten gets a lot of television sets by default with Maryland, but they're not tapping into some hotbed of rabid fandom.

 

[frankthetank]

I've lived in Maryland.

You're dreaming.

DC is a lot like NYC except more so in that no one who lives there is from there. As for the state of Maryland, they don't burn for Maryland athletics...to put it mildly.

The Big Ten gets a lot of television sets by default with Maryland, but they're not tapping into some hotbed of rabid fandom.

I'm not saying that Maryland has some type of Alabama-type fandom, but the figures have shown that DC is very similar to the Chicago market: even though it's clearly a pro sports town, it also isn't a college sports wasteland like NYC and Boston have continuously shown to be. There is much more of a critical mass of college sports fans in that market compared to the other markets north of it on the East Coast. Maryland has shown that it has Illini-level fandom, which is more than good enough for BTN purposes (and therefore will end up being extremely lucrative because of its location). Once again, Rutgers is the risk because it's an open question whether *any* combo of college teams (i.e. even if you were to somehow put Penn State, Notre Dame, Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse and Michigan into the same conference) would be enough to deliver the NYC market for the purposes of the BTN. TV executives don't feel the same way about DC - that's a market that can legitimately be delivered by the right combo of schools (and there's much more faith that Maryland plus Penn State/Ohio State/other B1G schools will be enough in DC compared to any combo in NYC).

 

[junglehusky]

The Andy Staples article in SI brings up a good point - look at where Google Fiber is rolling out - KC, Austin, Provo. Where they go next might be interesting from a CFB perspective (as well as a business perspective - which cable monopolies would they choose to do battle with?)

 

[frankthetank]

The Andy Staples article in SI brings up a good point - look at where Google Fiber is rolling out - KC, Austin, Provo. Where they go next might be interesting from a CFB perspective (as well as a business perspective - which cable monopolies would they choose to do battle with?)

I think it's something to watch. A key distinction, though, is that the one place in the entire country where you will *not* be able to stream Kansas games will be the KC market. Those games have been sold exclusively to Metro Sports Kansas City in that market on basic cable. It's anywhere other than KC where the games will be accessible via ESPN3.

 

[upstater]

Well, like I've said elsewhere, I don't think anyone is moving prior to the end (or near the end) of the grant of rights period. Make no mistake about it, though - if the Big Ten can offer Kansas alone and Kansas can, in turn, leave alone from a political standpoint, it wouldn't take any convincing of KU at all to move. They'd join the Big Ten in a heartbeat if it were left to their own devices. The issue, though, is the "alone" part. As someone else mentioned, the fate of Kansas State can be a very large political ro . There's a similar dynamic in play with Oklahoma and Oklahoma State. That's why it has always been misleading to say that (a) Kansas was almost left behind when the Big 12 was on the verge of collapse and (b) the Pac-12 rejected Oklahoma when A&M announced that it was leaving for the SEC. Technically, both are true, but it had nothing to do with the intrinsic values of KU and OU. Believe me - the Pac-12 would take a KU/OU expansion immediately and the Big Ten and SEC likely would, as well. The hangup has always been their little brothers - none of those conferences want to take on Kansas State or Oklahoma State (at least without *both* Oklahoma and Texas with respect to the latter).

The Pac12 expansion was to be 4 teams including Tech and Okie St. That's what their commissioner was working toward before the presidents said "no way."

But the P12 is looking at a future of Boise St. and UNLV unless they act soon. Maybe that's just fine for them actually. But I doubt it.

 

[Fishy]

I'm not saying that Maryland has some type of Alabama-type fandom, but the figures have shown that DC is very similar to the Chicago market: even though it's clearly a pro sports town, it also isn't a college sports wasteland like NYC and Boston have continuously shown to be. There is much more of a critical mass of college sports fans in that market compared to the other markets north of it on the East Coast. Maryland has shown that it has Illini-level fandom.....

"Figures".

All right.

Reality shows that Maryland's season ticket sales and attendance have declined consistently over the past decade - they were winning under Fridge and still managed to steadily lose interest. They opened new and remodeled facilities....and still struggled.

Not good. Illinois is likely a good comparison - they, too, seem to have trouble putting asses in seats.

Like Illinois, Maryland and Rutgers are in geographically-advantageous locations. They're marginally successful and largely invisible nationally...but they're near a ton of television sets and if the Big Ten can sell Ohio State-Michigan-Penn State in those huge markets, it's a win.

 

[woomba]

"Figures".
Reality shows that Maryland's season ticket sales and attendance have declined consistently over the past decade - they were winning under Fridge and still managed to steadily lose interest. They opened new and remodeled facilities....and still struggled.

Maryland's interesting in that from a ticket revenue perspective it's been mostly flat although attendance has been slowly going down.

It suggests that Maryland tried to do too much of a money grab to try to pay for all those expensive upgrades it couldn't afford and priced some fans that would've attended otherwise.

 

[Fishy]

It suggests that Maryland tried to do too much of a money grab to try to pay for all those expensive upgrades it couldn't afford and priced some fans that would've attended otherwise.

That suggests that you're trying to tailor Maryland's sagging support to something other than what it is.

Revenue in their major sports stayed the same and/or declined from about 2003 onward. Season ticket sales dropped in both major sports - the donor base contracted by thousands of people as well.

They're not a healthy outfit financially or in terms of fan support at the moment.

If I'm Delaney and I can take Maryland from the ACC, I take Maryland from the ACC. But I do it because there is an assload of people living in that market and I can eventually sell them on the Big Ten. I don't do it because there's some sort of untapped mountain of Maryland enthusiasm because there isn't. Same thing holds for Rutgers - lots of eyeballs, but no one is dying for old Rutgers.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

Like Illinois, Maryland and Rutgers are in geographically-advantageous locations. They're marginally successful and largely invisible nationally...but they're near a ton of television sets and if the Big Ten can sell Ohio State-Michigan-Penn State in those huge markets, it's a win.

It just dawned on me what the BTN strategy is in New Jersey and Maryland. They don't give a damn if Rutgers or Maryland can draw flies - it's Michigan, Ohio St., Penn St., etc. that will draw the eyeballs. Rutgers and Maryland are essentially "Team X here" in this equation - in the middle of densely populated areas.

Brilliant.

 

[Fishy]

It just dawned on me what the BTN strategy is in New Jersey and Maryland. They don't give a damn if Rutgers or Maryland can draw flies - it's Michigan, Ohio St., Penn St., etc. that will draw the eyeballs. Rutgers and Maryland are essentially "Team X here" in this equation - in the middle of densely populated areas.

Exactly.

Maryland has the 2002-ish hoop title and they had a run in the early 2000s that saw them ranked at year end in football. Aside from one pretty good season in Fridge's last year, Maryland is basically a study in marginal athletics combined with health scoops of financial and administrative chaos.

Rutgers got their head above water in football for a few seasons here and there, are perfectly dreadful in basketball and are otherwise a cautionary tale.

You don't invite those teams for who they are, you invite them for where they are.

It's about selling Michigan and Ohio State and the Big Ten to those new "Big Ten markets".

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think it's something to watch. A key distinction, though, is that the one place in the entire country where you will *not* be able to stream Kansas games will be the KC market. Those games have been sold exclusively to Metro Sports Kansas City in that market on basic cable. It's anywhere other than KC where the games will be accessible via ESPN3.

Which is very good for me here in MA, as I can catch the Hawks on ESPN or my iPhone/tablet. Hell, I have to watch most UConn games that way now, as I don't have SNY. Say what you will about Kansas being a small state, it has a pretty strong alumni association and a lot of alumni are outside of the KC area (Chicago, DC, Dallas, Houston, Denver...)

 

[IMind]

It's just amazing... Rutgers hit the -ing lottery with the Schaino hire. If they continue to have double digit losses every year there's no way the Big 10 can justify inviting them... or maybe I'm wrong and they still would just because a lot of people live in New Jersey.

 

[woomba]

It just dawned on me what the BTN strategy is in New Jersey and Maryland. They don't give a damn if Rutgers or Maryland can draw flies - it's Michigan, Ohio St., Penn St., etc. that will draw the eyeballs. Rutgers and Maryland are essentially "Team X here" in this equation - in the middle of densely populated areas.

Brilliant.

Pretty much - DC and NYC also happens to big destinations for OOS Big Ten alums as well so they don't need to rely on traveling fan support either.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The Pac12 expansion was to be 4 teams including Tech and Okie St. That's what their commissioner was working toward before the presidents said "no way."

But the P12 is looking at a future of Boise St. and UNLV unless they act soon. Maybe that's just fine for them actually. But I doubt it.

If what your saying is true why didn't the B1G offer Kansas with Nebraska istead of Maryland or Rutgers.
Are you saying that was the deal but K-State prevented it.
I would have thought giving the shaky ground the Big 12 was on it would have been everyman for himself.
K-State and Iowa State would have landed toghether either in the MW or Big East.
The Big East with those two instead of Tulane and pick another would have been a pretty good BBall conference.
The privates might not have split and the TV contract would have been a lot better. Even if they split.

East. West
Connecticut. Iowa State
Kansas State
West Virginia. Oklahoma State
Temple. SMU
Cinn. T-Tech

Memphis. Boise / BYU/ánbody
South Fla.
That's a pretty good league actually better than the ACC in football
6 pretty good basketball schools. local rivalries better travel.

If the pack took Texas and Oklahoma
and the B1G Kansas it would have been a better outcome for us.
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[upstater]

It just dawned on me what the BTN strategy is in New Jersey and Maryland. They don't give a damn if Rutgers or Maryland can draw flies - it's Michigan, Ohio St., Penn St., etc. that will draw the eyeballs. Rutgers and Maryland are essentially "Team X here" in this equation - in the middle of densely populated areas.

Brilliant.

It's a gamble though. I've said this repeatedly. PSU's real home area is Eastern Pa. Yet Comcast dominates the region. And it won't give BTN top dollar in the region where PSU is most popular.

What makes anyone think BTN can make it happen in an area where support for college football (and the NJ region's top team, Rutgers) is tepid at best?

Maybe they can. Maybe Comcast is being obstinate. Whereas the NY/NJ cable systems are going to roll over.

 

[upstater]

It's just amazing... Rutgers hit the -ing lottery with the Schaino hire. If they continue to have double digit losses every year there's no way the Big 10 can justify inviting them... or maybe I'm wrong and they still would just because a lot of people live in New Jersey.

There are a lot of weak football teams in the B1G. The big schools have been feasting on them for many years. Rutgers will have losing records, not sure about double digits.

 

[upstater]

If what your saying is true why didn't the B1G offer Kansas with Nebraska istead of Maryland or Rutgers.
Are you saying that was the deal but K-State prevented it.
I would have thought giving the shaky ground the Big 12 was on it would have been everyman for himself.
K-State and Iowa State would have landed toghether either in the MW or Big East.
The Big East with those two instead of Tulane and pick another would have been a pretty good BBall conference.
The privates might not have split and the TV contract would have been a lot better.
East. West
Connecticut. Iowa State
Kansas State
West Virginia. Oklahoma State
Temple. SMU
Cinn.

Memphis
South Fla


Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

The reason why Kansas wasn't offered is because their market is Kansas, whereas MD and Rutgers are in huge markets.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

The reason why Kansas wasn't offered is because their market is Kansas, whereas MD and Rutgers are in huge markets.

Isn't Franks point that Kansas much like Nebraska has a much larger footprint than their geography.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[upstater]

Isn't Franks point that Kansas much like Nebraska has a much larger footprint than their geography.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

But the game is cable. Not ratings. Kansas' bball ratings aren't accretive to the B1G payout. No one's are.

 

[B1GALUM]

Exactly.

Maryland has the 2002-ish hoop title and they had a run in the early 2000s that saw them ranked at year end in football. Aside from one pretty good season in Fridge's last year, Maryland is basically a study in marginal athletics combined with health scoops of financial and administrative chaos.

Rutgers got their head above water in football for a few seasons here and there, are perfectly dreadful in basketball and are otherwise a cautionary tale.

You don't invite those teams for who they are, you invite them for where they are.

It's about selling Michigan and Ohio State and the Big Ten to those new "Big Ten markets".

Its about trying to pull more recruits to B1G teams from this rich recruiting area as well; especially Michigan and Ohio State. To compete with the SEC more than midwest talent will be needed.

 

[woomba]

Its about trying to pull more recruits to B1G teams from this rich recruiting area as well; especially Michigan and Ohio State. To compete with the SEC more than midwest talent will be needed.

Not really - the main beneficiaries will be the mid-level teams like MSU and Iowa. If you look at Michigan and Ohio State's past classes they've been pulling top kids from both states for years even before the move. Better recruiting all around should improve depth though.

 

[CL82]

I'm not saying that Maryland has some type of Alabama-type fandom, but the figures have shown that DC is very similar to the Chicago market: even though it's clearly a pro sports town, it also isn't a college sports wasteland like NYC and Boston have continuously shown to be. There is much more of a critical mass of college sports fans in that market compared to the other markets north of it on the East Coast. Maryland has shown that it has Illini-level fandom, which is more than good enough for BTN purposes (and therefore will end up being extremely lucrative because of its location). Once again, Rutgers is the risk because it's an open question whether *any* combo of college teams (i.e. even if you were to somehow put Penn State, Notre Dame, Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse and Michigan into the same conference) would be enough to deliver the NYC market for the purposes of the BTN. TV executives don't feel the same way about DC - that's a market that can legitimately be delivered by the right combo of schools (and there's much more faith that Maryland plus Penn State/Ohio State/other B1G schools will be enough in DC compared to any combo in NYC).

Oh well if "the figures" show it...

Link?

 

[B1GALUM]

Once again, Rutgers is the risk because it's an open question whether *any* combo of college teams (i.e. even if you were to somehow put Penn State, Notre Dame, Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse and Michigan into the same conference) would be enough to deliver the NYC market for the purposes of the BTN. TV executives don't feel the same way about DC - that's a market that can legitimately be delivered by the right combo of schools (and there's much more faith that Maryland plus Penn State/Ohio State/other B1G schools will be enough in DC compared to any combo in NYC).

Apparently, the B1G and BTN may as well just give up on NYC. The Atlantic Coast Conference is staking a claim to New York City by adding the Pinstripe Bowl to its postseason lineup.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...bebc36-ddf6-11e2-bc84-8049224b33e1_story.html

“This is truly a terrific opportunity,” Swofford said Tuesday. “To play in this game on an annual basis, in the media capital of the world and partner with the most storied and iconic franchise, and stadium, in American sports.

“It’s a partnership that makes sense in every way.”

The ACC is expanding north, adding Pittsburgh, Syracuse and Notre Dame this season. The Fighting Irish will remain a football independent, but will play five games per season against ACC teams. Louisville will join in 2014.

“Certainly New York becomes a very, very important part of our footprint and our newly aligned conference,” Swofford said.

Swofford re-iterated that the conference is discussing playing its men’s basketball tournament in the New York area in the future, but that it hasn’t gone past that point.

 

[woomba]

...you do realize that the Pinstripe will be a Big Ten vs ACC match up right?

It makes sense for the ACC since they now have 4 teams to slot into that bowl (Pitt, Syracuse, ND, and BC)