lock it up
2023 Recruiting: Justin Edwards
- Thread starter Storrs South
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2011
- Messages
- 20,287
- Reaction Score
- 116,478
I was going to say the same. Good evaluations during recruiting, development and coaching are more important than getting a bunch of 5 star recruits.
I posted this article before the Final Four. Kansas and Villanova didn't have a single 5 star recruit. Duke was obviously loaded with them and UNC had 2.
And look at many of the All Americans this past year. Obviously seniors like Agbai and juniors like Timme (wasn't he a 4th year player?) developed. But even sophomores who didn't have as much time to develop like Keegan Murray and Johnny Davis were respectively 3 star and barely 4 star recruits. Sophomore Jaden Ivey of Purdue was a 4 star recruit.
2022 Final Four teams: Recruiting rankings for Duke, UNC, Kansas and Villanova players
Before they took the NCAA Tournament by storm, most of the Final Four players earned blue-chip status as recruits.
www.cbssports.com
I was going to say the same. Good evaluations during recruiting, development and coaching are more important than getting a bunch of 5 star recruits.
I posted this article before the Final Four. Kansas and Villanova didn't have a single 5 star recruit. Duke was obviously loaded with them and UNC had 2.
And look at many of the All Americans this past year. Obviously seniors like Agbai and juniors like Timme (wasn't he a 4th year player?) developed. But even sophomores who didn't have as much time to develop like Keegan Murray and Johnny Davis were respectively 3 star and barely 4 star recruits. Sophomore Jaden Ivey of Purdue was a 4 star recruit.
2022 Final Four teams: Recruiting rankings for Duke, UNC, Kansas and Villanova players
Before they took the NCAA Tournament by storm, most of the Final Four players earned blue-chip status as recruits.
Yeah it just seems like a waste of energy to go after these guys. They never come and as you've pointed it, it's not like that's the only way to win. We just aren't a magnet for those type of players and as has been proven here and other places in the past, you don't need them to be successful. Just seems like a waste of time and energy to always end up on the outside looking in.I was going to say the same. Good evaluations during recruiting, development and coaching are more important than getting a bunch of 5 star recruits.
I posted this article before the Final Four. Kansas and Villanova didn't have a single 5 star recruit. Duke was obviously loaded with them and UNC had 2.
And look at many of the All Americans this past year. Obviously seniors like Agbai and juniors like Timme (wasn't he a 4th year player?) developed. But even sophomores who didn't have as much time to develop like Keegan Murray and Johnny Davis were respectively 3 star and barely 4 star recruits. Sophomore Jaden Ivey of Purdue was a 4 star recruit.
2022 Final Four teams: Recruiting rankings for Duke, UNC, Kansas and Villanova players
Before they took the NCAA Tournament by storm, most of the Final Four players earned blue-chip status as recruits.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2022
- Messages
- 85
- Reaction Score
- 332
He has to do that this season coming up. Not making it to the tourney or a first round departure will not sit well for his future here
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2017
- Messages
- 796
- Reaction Score
- 2,889
We absolutely need to land a 5 star/McDonalds All American elite player. For a program of UCONNs stature not to get at least 1 elite ranked recruit every 2-3 years is not good. Hurley needs to break through.
People pointing at Kansas as a model of winning with lesser ranked talent should know that Kansas has 3 McDonalds All Americans coming next year into their program.
Villanova also has 1 coming in.
Musselman and Oats have several coming in.
Heck even Pat Ewing and Georgetown was able to get one last year despite the program being awful.
PS: Jim Calhoun won championships because he also was able to get 5 star recruits/McDonalds All Americans in addition to being a great coach.
People pointing at Kansas as a model of winning with lesser ranked talent should know that Kansas has 3 McDonalds All Americans coming next year into their program.
Villanova also has 1 coming in.
Musselman and Oats have several coming in.
Heck even Pat Ewing and Georgetown was able to get one last year despite the program being awful.
PS: Jim Calhoun won championships because he also was able to get 5 star recruits/McDonalds All Americans in addition to being a great coach.
.-.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2013
- Messages
- 3,536
- Reaction Score
- 12,217
It would be really nice to get a five star every few years, but not totally necessary. There are usually around 25 five stars each season. Two-thirds of five stars (about 16) are good enough at the college level to get drafted into the NBA with about two thirds of them (about 10) going in the first round. The absolute locks are the top ten high school players. Not to say the others are not contributing to their college programs, but you get the drift...
The more important thing is to get coachable four stars that relate well to the program and the other players on the roster. That will be the bedrock of the program with portal transfers (maybe 2 or 3 per year) filling in the holes.
I'm not all into the "gotta have a 5 star" way of thinking. I'd rather have a roster loaded with four stars that want to stay for three of four years, work at their game, and relate well to the rest of the roster (physically and mentally) and coaching staff. Having the older portal guys be the one and dones should actually be more effective and efficient than us going after and getting every so often an 18 year old high school five star.
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2012
- Messages
- 8,988
- Reaction Score
- 26,857
2014 team had no McD's. 2011 had Kemba Walker. 2004 had Charlie Villanueva. 1999 had Khalid El-Amin and Rip Hamilton.
So it looks like 1 McD is sufficient, on average, if you have a Hall of Fame coach.
But things might be changing, with G league, Ollie's league, other opportunities for the top players outside NCAA. NIL might spread the top players around a bit more.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2012
- Messages
- 793
- Reaction Score
- 2,322
Also, Kemba was a late bloomer. He was a 3 star when he committed and then blew up.
I look more at offers than stars a lot of the time as well. The funniest ranking to me was Shabazz, I believe he was still top 100, but watching him in high school I was amazed by how people thought there were “x” amount of players/guards better than him
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 34,901
- Reaction Score
- 104,877
Just shows what winning and advancing in the dance means!
D
Deleted at users request
Wonder if this had to do with mishandling two different players he was close to in Diggins and Floyd. I remember people telling me that it would be a non factor but this seems to say otherwise which only makes sense.
Like I’ve been saying all off-season, Hurley has to do a better job of handling freshman. He’ll get another chance with Castle. I hope he lets him loose early.
Like I’ve been saying all off-season, Hurley has to do a better job of handling freshman. He’ll get another chance with Castle. I hope he lets him loose early.
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2011
- Messages
- 20,287
- Reaction Score
- 116,478
Not exactly. It is true that Kemba was not highly ranked before the spring of his junior year and then shot up the rankings. But by the time UConn started seriously recruiting him, after Brandon Jennings decommitted, and he committed during the summer before his senior year he was already a highly ranked 4 star commitment before his play later that summer on the AAU circuit put him into the top 15 or so.
Walker is ranked the No. 4 point guard in the class of 2008 by scout.com and the 36th player overall.
UConn gets NYC guard
.-.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2017
- Messages
- 796
- Reaction Score
- 2,889
1999 had two: Khalid El-Amin and Richard Hamilton
2004 had two: Charlie Villanueva and Taliek Brown. This is in addition to numerous NBA players on that roster.
2011 had two: Kemba Walker and Alex Oriakhi
2014 is the only outlier with no McD's: Even that team had a consensus 5 star recruit in DeAndre Daniels.
This team benefitted playing with multiple NBA players and 5 star recruits throughout their tenure along with being coached by Calhoun.
It is necessary to get 5 star recruits every 2-3 years at worst if you expect to win titles. You can still have the majority of your roster full of 4 and 3 stars and still contend, but you absolutely need at worst one 5 star to win a title, and most of the time at least 2.
PS: The nonsense that Calhoun got lesser ranked players and was able to win without top talent just isn't true. Calhoun got plenty of top tier talent, which is why he was able to win championships in addition to him being a great overall coach. He was able to get 5 star recruits and McD's plenty of times.
dennismenace
ONE MORE CAST
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2015
- Messages
- 3,984
- Reaction Score
- 11,501
If that's his primary motivation it seems conservative (bird in the hand) but maybe shortsighted. NBA paychecks dwarf that kind of money even for 1 year vs a couple or even more years in college. Primary motivation should be preparedness for life after college including NBA but that's hard to resist when it is handed to you on a plate.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2013
- Messages
- 3,536
- Reaction Score
- 12,217
I don't think it is that simple (but obviously winning helps):
Maryland - did not make the tourney
Kentucky - lost in the first round
Tennessee - lost in the second round
Auburn - lost in the second round
Villanova - lost in the FF
Kansas - won it all
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 34,901
- Reaction Score
- 104,877
Villanova FF and KU wins it all, it is that simple for them though. Nova wasn’t even recruiting him as hard as the Husky staff.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2013
- Messages
- 3,536
- Reaction Score
- 12,217
If you want to make it that simple, then yeah it is. Using that line of logic, then all top 10 players would only go to the top 5-10 programs but that's not it has worked.
Don’t forget Andrew Bynum pre McDonald’s All Star game. My good friend Clyde V pulled that off.
.-.
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 34,901
- Reaction Score
- 104,877
Let’s be honest we go one and done again we will be behind the 8 ball with many of those we go after who also are being recruited by winning programs. And if not that then we better find a way to play in the money game.
Having said that I’m ok with not playing in the Top 20-25 recruits sandbox if we can find the solid top 100 kids who just get better.
Banta55
Hoops since 86"
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2013
- Messages
- 466
- Reaction Score
- 1,658
Are you serious?
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 34,901
- Reaction Score
- 104,877
dennismenace
ONE MORE CAST
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2015
- Messages
- 3,984
- Reaction Score
- 11,501
This reminds me of the consensus take that NBA scouts had of JC at the time: "Players that come out of Uconn are NBA ready". Calhoun and staff located numerous talented kids (that would fit into his coaching philosophy) and then developed them mentally and physically for the next level. I think you had to have toughness to play at Uconn because there was no if ands or buts that it was going to be his way (for your sake). I think his players for the most part wore that as a badge of honor to play for him because his coaching and training were high caliber to the extent that professional scouts considered him an extension of the league. Not surprising considering his will to win. Always good to remember that his mentor was Red Auerbach (was that 11 NBA titles in 13 years?)
.-.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2012
- Messages
- 291
- Reaction Score
- 650
Nova did have Brian Antoine who was a McD AA and a 5 star kid. Of course, he Never got to be a big factor.I was going to say the same. Good evaluations during recruiting, development and coaching are more important than getting a bunch of 5 star recruits.
I posted this article before the Final Four. Kansas and Villanova didn't have a single 5 star recruit. Duke was obviously loaded with them and UNC had 2.
And look at many of the All Americans this past year. Obviously seniors like Agbai and juniors like Timme (wasn't he a 4th year player?) developed. But even sophomores who didn't have as much time to develop like Keegan Murray and Johnny Davis were respectively 3 star and barely 4 star recruits. Sophomore Jaden Ivey of Purdue was a 4 star recruit.
2022 Final Four teams: Recruiting rankings for Duke, UNC, Kansas and Villanova players
Before they took the NCAA Tournament by storm, most of the Final Four players earned blue-chip status as recruits.
I think if you are the top bidder today, you have a chance. I can’t emphasize how much things have changed.
- Status