Just when you thought you knew... | The Boneyard

Just when you thought you knew...

Jaydumo20

Jaydumo20

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We tend to think, as humans do, that what's in front of our faces is what's lasting and real. In light of the the NIL madness think about this-
Did we think that we'd ever been battling a rick pitino coached St. John's team, at the top of the big east, for players?

Nothing lasts

(Except for hartford-the parade capital of the world)
 
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Jaydumo20 said:
We tend to think, as humans do, that what's in front of our faces is what's lasting and real. In light of the the NIL madness think about this-
Did we think that we'd ever been battling a rick pitino coached St. John's team, at the top of the big east, for players?

Nothing lasts

(Except for hartford-the parade capital of the world)
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I'm not that worried if our main competition is a geriatric at a crappy school in Queens. Whatever happens there won't last long. Hoping Willard puts Villanova back on a solid trajectory.
 
Jaydumo20 said:
We tend to think, as humans do, that what's in front of our faces is what's lasting and real. In light of the the NIL madness think about this-
Did we think that we'd ever been battling a rick pitino coached St. John's team, at the top of the big east, for players?

Nothing lasts

(Except for hartford-the parade capital of the world)
Expand ...
Of course I thought we would. Pitino is one of the greatest coaches in the history of basketball. His accomplishments speak for themselves. St John's, Georgetown, Villanova are staples in the history of Men's CBB. Never underestimate Slick Rick and his ability to recruit and to get the most out of his players. Hell, Rick was the head coach at Iona when Walter Clayton Jr was recruited there and we all know what Walter Clayton Jr was able to accomplish. If you discard Pitino as being a cheater then you aren't seeing the whole picture. Pitino is a hell of a College Basketball Coach.

Give Georgetown and Villanova a few years and they will both be right back to where they once were too.
 
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Methalius said:
Of course I thought we would. Pitino is one of the greatest coaches in the history of basketball. His accomplishments speak for themselves. St John's, Georgetown, Villanova are staples in the history of Men's CBB. Never underestimate Slick Rick and his ability to recruit and to get the most out of his players. Hell, Rick was the head coach at Iona when Walter Clayton Jr was recruited there and we all know what Walter Clayton Jr was able to accomplish. If you discard Pitino as being a cheater then you aren't seeing the whole picture. Pitino is a hell of a College Basketball Coach.

Give Georgetown and Villanova a few years and they will both be right back to where they once were too.
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I would like to see Nova return to the heights they reached a half dozen years ago but it will take a lot before I view Willard in remotely the same category as Jay Wright.

I could be wrong, but i believe the last time St John's played in a sweet 16 game our men's program had not yet won any national titles.

The few people that believe Georgetown or St John's are historic programs are delusional. Georgetown had a great run when Patrick Ewing played there and a handful of good seasons outside of that. St John's was at best a large fraction of what Houston was during the half century that ended when the BE put three schools in the final four (anyone who was alive then is now in their 40's at a minimum) and hasn't been close to as successful as Houston in recent years.

Hell, Loyola of Chicago has as many overall titles as St John's and Georgetown combined and a far more recent final four appearance.

There is nothing to be gained by pretending the other members of or conference are something that they are not.
 
LIUCHusky said:
They won pretty big this past season.
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This is the crux of the argument.

We got eliminated in the second round of the tournament and this board reacted as if we had a horrifically bad season.

St John's gets eliminated in the second round of the tournament and we're acting like they should have a parade.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I would like to see Nova return to the heights they reached a half dozen years ago but it will take a lot before I view Willard in remotely the same category as Jay Wright.

I could be wrong, but i believe the last time St John's played in a sweet 16 game our men's program had not yet won any national titles.

The few people that believe Georgetown or St John's are historic programs are delusional. Georgetown had a great run when Patrick Ewing played there and a handful of good seasons outside of that. St John's was at best a large fraction of what Houston was during the half century that ended when the BE put three schools in the final four (anyone who was alive then is now in their 40's at a minimum) and hasn't been close to as successful as Houston in recent years.

Hell, Loyola of Chicago has as many overall titles as St John's and Georgetown combined and a far more recent final four appearance.

There is nothing to be gained by pretending the other members of or conference are something that they are not.
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Couldn't agree more. This is word for word how I feel about the topic. I understand the desire to prop those programs up but I think under a little bit of scrutiny it's hard to really back up that assessment.

Btw, I'm 45.
 
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Methalius said:
Of course I thought we would. Pitino is one of the greatest coaches in the history of basketball. His accomplishments speak for themselves. St John's, Georgetown, Villanova are staples in the history of Men's CBB. Never underestimate Slick Rick and his ability to recruit and to get the most out of his players. Hell, Rick was the head coach at Iona when Walter Clayton Jr was recruited there and we all know what Walter Clayton Jr was able to accomplish. If you discard Pitino as being a cheater then you aren't seeing the whole picture. Pitino is a hell of a College Basketball Coach.

Give Georgetown and Villanova a few years and they will both be right back to where they once were too.
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Gross. You should be ashamed. I hate G-town. Pe-Toowey! I spit on them.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
I would like to see Nova return to the heights they reached a half dozen years ago but it will take a lot before I view Willard in remotely the same category as Jay Wright.

I could be wrong, but i believe the last time St John's played in a sweet 16 game our men's program had not yet won any national titles.

The few people that believe Georgetown or St John's are historic programs are delusional. Georgetown had a great run when Patrick Ewing played there and a handful of good seasons outside of that. St John's was at best a large fraction of what Houston was during the half century that ended when the BE put three schools in the final four (anyone who was alive then is now in their 40's at a minimum) and hasn't been close to as successful as Houston in recent years.

Hell, Loyola of Chicago has as many overall titles as St John's and Georgetown combined and a far more recent final four appearance.

There is nothing to be gained by pretending the other members of or conference are something that they are not.
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You were probably saying Jay Wright is no Rollie before Jay won big in the tournament. Nova is a great basketball program, they'll be really good quickly. Of course Georgetown is a historic program.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
This is the crux of the argument.

We got eliminated in the second round of the tournament and this board reacted as if we had a horrifically bad season.

St John's gets eliminated in the second round of the tournament and we're acting like they should have a parade.
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We lost in the second round and this board reacted like we could've won the whole thing because we took Florida to the brink.

St. John's had a much better season than UConn and most people on the board trashed them for losing in the second round.
 
superjohn said:
We lost in the second round and this board reacted like we could've won the whole thing because we took Florida to the brink.

St. John's had a much better season than UConn and most people on the board trashed them for losing in the second round.
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We got beat by a 1 seed, they were a number 2 seed beaten by a 10 seed. They had a good season against a weak schedule, including us with our shortcomings.
Pitino if you remember had his team not shaking hands postgame. And why? It was bogus. All about him with his white suit.
With our deficiencies at point guard we hung in there, not that we were championship caliber.
What did St. John’s do? They benched their best player on their way to an embarrassing defeat.
 
jibsey said:
We got beat by a 1 seed, they were a number 2 seed beaten by a 10 seed. They had a good season against a weak schedule, including us with our shortcomings.
Pitino if you remember had his team not shaking hands postgame. And why? It was bogus. All about him with his white suit.
With our deficiencies at point guard we hung in there, not that we were championship caliber.
What did St. John’s do? They benched their best player on their way to an embarrassing defeat.
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What did St. John's do? They ran away with the conference regular season title and blew everyone out in the conference tournament. They had a much better season than UConn did.
 
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DCHuskyFan said:
I would have been far more upset with UConn winning the conference and then the conference tournament and losing in the second round than the way we actually lost In the second round. I would much rather overachieve than underachieve.
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UConn was #3 in the country when the season started, St. John's was unranked.
 
superjohn said:
You were probably saying Jay Wright is no Rollie before Jay won big in the tournament.
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.I don't know how to break this to you but Rollie won big in the tournament (biggest prize possible) in far less time than Jay Wright. In fact, he won a title at Villanova a couple of years quicker than Jim Calhoun won one at UConn. Only a fool would give someone credit prior to his deserving it.
superjohn said:
Nova is a great basketball program, they'll be really good quickly.
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Nova has a great basketball history. They'll be good when they are good again, not when you decide to deem them as being good. And for the record, Willard is closer to being another Lappas than being another Massimino or Wright. If he demonstrates that he can be more than that, I'll give him credit. Until then, he's merely Ralph Willard's kid.

superjohn said:
Of course Georgetown is a historic program.
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Out of curiosity, is North Carolina State an historic program? What about Michigan? In all candor, Georgetown is no more of an historic program than Arkansas (I'd also like to know how you feel about their qualifications as historic). Georgetown had a (very brief) great run with Ewing (the senior John Thompson's only three final four appearances) with one title and a bit of a decent run (one additional final four) with his son. The schools I mentioned all accomplished a lot more over a far longer period of time.
 
FearThePups said:
It was a down year for the conference overall. Do you really think St. John’s would have been any threat to beat our team last year?
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Of course not, nobody in the country this season could match up with UConn's team last season.

I think it's weird people can't just admit St. John's had a great season.
FfldCntyFan said:
.I don't know how to break this to you but Rollie won big in the tournament (biggest prize possible) in far less time than Jay Wright. In fact, he won a title at Villanova a couple of years quicker than Jim Calhoun won one at UConn. Only a fool would give someone credit prior to his deserving it.

Nova has a great basketball history. They'll be good when they are good again, not when you decide to deem them as being good. And for the record, Willard is closer to being another Lappas than being another Massimino or Wright. If he demonstrates that he can be more than that, I'll give him credit. Until then, he's merely Ralph Willard's kid.



Out of curiosity, is North Carolina State an historic program? What about Michigan? In all candor, Georgetown is no more of an historic program than Arkansas (I'd also like to know how you feel about their qualifications as historic). Georgetown had a (very brief) great run with Ewing (the senior John Thompson's only three final four appearances) with one title and a bit of a decent run (one additional final four) with his son. The schools I mentioned all accomplished a lot more over a far longer period of time.
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Reading comprehension brother. You completely missed the point on Jay Wright and Rollie.

Georgetown is a historic program for a # of reasons.
 
superjohn said:
Reading comprehension brother. You completely missed the point on Jay Wright and Rollie.

Georgetown is a historic program for a # of reasons.
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In all candor, it is you who is missing points, but I believe that this is intentional.

Please elaborate on the number of reasons Georgetown is historic.
 
superjohn said:
UConn was #3 in the country when the season started, St. John's was unranked.
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It was clear very early on that UConn didn’t merit that high of a ranking. In any case, I don’t dispute that St John’s had a far better year. I was just talking about which scenario would upset me more. I suppose that’s why 2006 still bothers me so much, UConn underachieved that year only making it to the Elite 8 and losing to GMU.
 
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DCHuskyFan said:
It was clear very early on that UConn didn’t merit that high of a ranking. In any case, I don’t dispute that St John’s had a far better year. I was just talking about which scenario would upset me more. I suppose that’s why 2006 still bothers me so much, UConn underachieved that year only making it to the Elite 8 and losing to GMU.
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True. Since the tourney is all that matters really, I'd rather have the feeling of a rocky regular season and an over achieving post season (2011 & 2023) than a great regular season and getting knocked out 2nd round.
Thankfully that hasn't ever really happened to us all that much.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
In all candor, it is you who is missing points, but I believe that this is intentional.

Please elaborate on the number of reasons Georgetown is historic.
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I recall there being a thread when Cooley was about to take the job and the merits of the Gtown program were discussed at length.
I wonder if we have enough of a big east bias which may make the program seem more meaningful.
I think Georgetown would only classify as historic because of the definition of the word. It was waaaay in the past. We wouldn't call Baylor bball historic simply because they have had their "80's georgetown-esque" success recently.
 
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St. John’s had a very successful year, one of the best years in the history of their program

Imagine in 2024 we lost to Northwestern in the second round. At the most surface level, the seasons would be pretty similar. High seed that ran through the BE and flamed out in a 2nd round upset

St John’s hadn’t made the 2nd round in 20 years. UConn won the title 1 year ago. For St John’s that is a historic season. For UConn it’d be a disappointment

Context matters
 
superjohn said:
What did St. John's do? They ran away with the conference regular season title and blew everyone out in the conference tournament. They had a much better season than UConn did.
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And lost to a 10th seeded Calipari team in the second round. A fair-minded observer would sooner regard this as an indictment on the 2024-25 Big East than anything more impressive. I'm surprised that you're framing it any other way, even if it's a harsh look for our own conference.

Up until the NCAA Tournament, SJU's 18-2 record and BET crown looked almost on par with last season's UConn team. Then the Big East got 5 teams into the tourney instead of the prior year's 3.

While it's true that 2023-24 crushed its way to a Natty, St. John's didn't just fall a little short. For a more recent experience of domination, you'd have to look at the WBB team for a truer perspective, even if we both saw SJU rise to and meet its challenges in an impressive way throughout the regular season & conference tourney.
 
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