Jordan's 97-98 Bulls tonight

[MilliniumPrince]

Jordan was poetry in motion. He was the perfect body size combined with an otherworldly need to dominate. I remember seeing him for the first time at UNC. As good as he looked, no one could have guessed he would become the best ever.

Until a kid was born in Akron, Ohio in 1984.

Different debate, which Birthday duo was greater : February 17 (Jim Brown and Michael Jordan) or December 30 (Tiger Woods and Lebron James)

 

[MilliniumPrince]

You literally have no idea how good he was. Jordan was a Westbrook level athlete with supreme skill. Lebron is bigger and more powerful, but nowhere near the scorer Jordan was.


[/QUOTE]

That isn't actually true. 3 point difference in career average even though Lebron has more years. He also shoots better overall and better from the 3pt area. Add in assists, Lebron created more points. Jordan was the superior defender, though Lebron was great for a long time.

Whichever one you put on top, the difference is thin.

MJ vs Lebron

 

[superjohn]

I gotta say, I like both guys but the idea that the Lebron fans are the "haters" is comically tone deaf.

I mean, just look at this thread. You'd think Lebron was duck___ Kwame Brown to read this nonsense.

The only reason we're talking about it is because some 13 year old came on here and said Lebron is better than Jordan, and if Jordan played today he would just be the next Devin Booker or Bradley Beal.

 

[Deuce]

Dude, if you're 36 you are a Millennial.

Dude if I’m 36 I’m a Gen X’er. Safely

 

[husky429]

Dude if I’m 36 I’m a Gen X’er. Safely

You're actually not correct. Earliest millenials are 39 now

Defining generations: Where Millennials end and Generation Z begins

Pew Research Center now uses 1996 as the last birth year for Millennials in our work. President Michael Dimock explains why.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Deuce]

You're actually not correct. Earliest millenials are 39 now

Defining generations: Where Millennials end and Generation Z begins

Pew Research Center now uses 1996 as the last birth year for Millennials in our work. President Michael Dimock explains why.

www.pewresearch.org

You are such a kno it all Red Auerbach. I looked it up in 5 different places and 4 of them say I was right. Anyways I don’t really care about this and maybe mind your own business?

 

[BleedHuskyBlu]

The only reason we're talking about it is because some 13 year old came on here and said Lebron is better than Jordan, and if Jordan played today he would just be the next Devin Booker or Bradley Beal.

Just speaking facts.

Old dudes arent able to realize that the talent, athleticism, and overall skill of players in all sports is always going to be better through eras. I wont be hating saying LeBron is still the greatest player of all time 25+ years down the line when that next great player comes through.

 

[husky429]

You are such a kno it all Red Auerbach. I looked it up in 5 different places and 4 of them say I was right. Anyways I don’t really care about this and maybe mind your own business?

Does having rudimentary search skills make me a "kno[w]" it all? Probably, but I'm in quarantine and have done nothing for weeks but cook and sleep. Gotta lot of time on my hands. The reason why I searched it was actually that I thought you were right and decided to look. I have no horse in this race--just passing on what I learned.

Since you were kind of a twerp about it, here is the first page of results for "what age are millennials?" All of them confirm that the oldest Millenials are in the 38-40 range What sources are you using? I know that people get different results when they search based on history and verbiage, but I expect you just made that up and didn't expect me to actually fact check you.

Defining generations: Where Millennials end and Generation Z begins (ages 24-39)
Boomers, Gen X, Gen Y, and Gen Z Explained (ages 25-39)
The Millennial Generation Is Larger Than You Think (ages 20-39 or 24-39)
Revised Guidelines Redefine Birth Years and Classifications for Gen X, Millennials, and Generation Z (ages 23-38)
Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, Baby Boomer: The 4 Leading Generations in the Workplace | Workest (ages 25-39)
3 Ways Millennials Differ from Generation Z in 2019 Trends (ages 25-39)
The Birth Years of Millennials and Generation Z | Millennial Marketing (ages 24-39)


Similarly, the first page of results (excluding wikipedia and one source that didn't actually have an age range) for "what age are Gen X'ers" are as follows. None of which have 36 as a member of Gen X.

Revised Guidelines Redefine Birth Years and Classifications for Gen X, Millennials, and Generation Z (ages 39-54)
Which Generation Are You? (ages 41-55)
Opinion | Coronavirus quarantine? Gen X was made for this. Boomers and Gen Z, not so much. (ages 40-??)
The psychological reasons why Gen X may be taking COVID-19 more seriously than boomers and millennials (ages 40-55)
Learn the Common Characteristics of Generation X Professionals (ages 40-55)

If you would prefer, I can provide more academic sources as well.

Feel free to ignore me in the meantime.

 

[storrsroars]

 

[auggie22]

Just speaking facts.

Old dudes arent able to realize that the talent, athleticism, and overall skill of players in all sports is always going to be better through eras. I wont be hating saying LeBron is still the greatest player of all time 25+ years down the line when that next great player comes through.

Can you explain in what way Lebron is more athletic than Michael Jordan?

If you are going to say speed and vertical please send your evidence. Body control? Coordination?

Lebron is bigger for sure. Everything else is very much not in evidence.

 

[BlueMAB]

Yea using stats is irrelevant in basketball makes sense.

So explain why these stats don't make sense

Why Michael Jordan Was The Best

The Bulls legend was -- and still is -- basketball’s GOAT.

www.google.com

His advanced metrics are stellar. His adjusted points per 36 minutes (pace into account) is 30.2 ppg. My God. Advanced metrics make him look even better.

 

[AdamaNation]

I would like to see how LeBron would deal with being clotheslined or grabbed and chucked to the ground when he drove the lane.

OTOH, it would be fun to watch LeBron be able to use his size and strength to just throw someone to the ground and have it be nothing more than two FT's.

Bron matched up with Malone. Advantage lebron. People acting like he isn’t strong because he’s so athletic. Maybe Utah wins one with him over Malone on brims defense alone.

 

[Lefty2one]

Just speaking facts.

Old dudes arent able to realize that the talent, athleticism, and overall skill of players in all sports is always going to be better through eras. I wont be hating saying LeBron is still the greatest player of all time 25+ years down the line when that next great player comes through.

It's not like it was a 40-year difference. MJ played in the NBA the year before LeBron arrived, and he was dropping 40 pts as an ancient 39/40-year-old against plenty of guys who LeBron played against through the bulk of his career.

 

[superjohn]

Can you explain in what way Lebron is more athletic than Michael Jordan?

If you are going to say speed and vertical please send your evidence. Body control? Coordination?

Lebron is bigger for sure. Everything else is very much not in evidence.

Lol. Imagine thinking Lebron is faster and jumps higher than Jordan? Jordan ran a 4.3 40.

 

[superjohn]

It's not like it was a 40-year difference. MJ played in the NBA the year before LeBron arrived, and he was dropping 40 pts as an ancient 39/40-year-old against plenty of guys who LeBron played against through the bulk of his career.

Yep and there are always outliers. Wilt played like 50 years ago and is bigger, stronger, and more athletic than any of today's guys. Zion is only guy on that type of freak level but he's at least half a foot shorter.
Wilt Chamberlain - A Real Superman (WIP#6) - YouTube

 

[Chin Diesel]

You're actually not correct. Earliest millenials are 39 now

Defining generations: Where Millennials end and Generation Z begins

Pew Research Center now uses 1996 as the last birth year for Millennials in our work. President Michael Dimock explains why.

www.pewresearch.org

Most millennial thing out there. Not knowing who they are and what is their generation. Probably identifies as a Gen X'er and that's good enough.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Yep and there are always outliers. Wilt played like 50 years ago and is bigger, stronger, and more athletic than any of today's guys. Zion is only guy on that type of freak level but he's at least half a foot shorter.
Wilt Chamberlain - A Real Superman (WIP#6) - YouTube

Yeah, with Wilt's speed, jumping and strength he'd average at least 50 ppg and 35 rebounds in 2020. He'd just gallop past everyone and none of these stretch 5's could do abything about it.

 

[Lefty2one]

Based on my own experience almost no one knows what a Millennial actually is (speaking as the oldest of Millenials). They just use it as a derisive term towards young people. This past Christmas my uncle, who's pushing 70, was complaining about current high school kids and calling them "dumb Millennials".

 

[Lefty2one]

Yep and there are always outliers. Wilt played like 50 years ago and is bigger, stronger, and more athletic than any of today's guys. Zion is only guy on that type of freak level but he's at least half a foot shorter.
Wilt Chamberlain - A Real Superman (WIP#6) - YouTube

Yep. The cream of the crop will always transcend in terms of raw athleticism. Wilt, David Thompson, MJ, Dr. J, etc. Twenty years from now I'll still believe that AI was too quick to be guarded by any one man, even those playing in the 2040 NBA.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Besides being better, Jordan was also more enjoyable to watch. Watching old games, the most glaring difference is no spacing/packed paint.
James Harden scores a lot of points and torches people helped by today's style and rules. No one in their right mind is saying Harden is better or in any way the same kind of athlete as Jordan. Harden averaged 36 this year. Jordan led the league in scoring 10 TIMES (LeBron? once), with a high of 37 average 32 in those 10. Jordan also played 82 games SEVEN of those 10 years and I think was first team all defense 9 outta 10. That is insane. When Roy Williams said he never turns it off, that means HE NEVER TURNED IT OFF! It is very likely peak Jordan would have averaged 50 in 2019-20.

 

[superjohn]

Besides being better, Jordan was also more enjoyable to watch. Watching old games, the most glaring difference is no spacing/packed paint.
James Harden scores a lot of points and torches people helped by today's style and rules. No one in their right mind is saying Harden is better or in any way the same kind of athlete as Jordan. Harden averaged 36 this year. Jordan led the league in scoring 10 TIMES (LeBron? once), with a high of 37 average 32 in those 10. Jordan also played 82 games SEVEN of those 10 years and I think was first team all defense 9 outta 10. That is insane. When Roy Williams said he never turns it off, that means HE NEVER TURNED IT OFF! It is very likely peak Jordan would have averaged 50 in 2019-20.

If Jordan didn't break his foot and then didn't take the two years off when his father was murdered he would have led the league in scoring every single season of his career as a Bull. He was also the best perimeter defender in the league (Jordan or Scottie.) Without the murder of his dad and Krause breaking the Bulls up he would've had at a minimum 8 titles. It's hard to overstate how truly dominant he was. It would be silly what he would do to the league now with the way the game is played.

One thing I forgot about was how incredible he was at using the glass. He would bank in jumpers from every angle.

As for the Lebron talk, I always thought the more apt comparison is Magic and Bird.

 

[NJHusky]

Besides being better, Jordan was also more enjoyable to watch. Watching old games, the most glaring difference is no spacing/packed paint.
James Harden scores a lot of points and torches people helped by today's style and rules. No one in their right mind is saying Harden is better or in any way the same kind of athlete as Jordan. Harden averaged 36 this year. Jordan led the league in scoring 10 TIMES (LeBron? once), with a high of 37 average 32 in those 10. Jordan also played 82 games SEVEN of those 10 years and I think was first team all defense 9 outta 10. That is insane. When Roy Williams said he never turns it off, that means HE NEVER TURNED IT OFF! It is very likely peak Jordan would have averaged 50 in 2019-20.

well said....People here who watched both have a different perspective than those that only saw Jordan on Youtube. With the spacing and lack of defense today, I agree with you that Jordan would have been unguardable. Could you imagine Lebron bludgeoned by the bad boy Pistons....and even the Oakley Knicks? Additionally, Bron got to manufacture his all star castmates...Jordan didn't have that luxury.

 

[Lefty2one]

well said....People here who watched both have a different perspective than those that only saw Jordan on Youtube. With the spacing and lack of defense today, I agree with you that Jordan would have been unguardable. Could you imagine Lebron bludgeoned by the bad boy Pistons....and even the Oakley Knicks? Additionally, Bron got to manufacture his all star castmates...Jordan didn't have that luxury.

It's terrifying to think of: MJ with a wide-open lane and the floor completely spaced. His defender can't be physical with him. Sure, zones and modern schemes would require MJ to adapt his game a little bit and I have no doubt the guy would average 10 assists a game in today's NBA. He proved he could run an offense when he had 10 triple-doubles in 11 games back in '89, in an era when triple-doubles were hard to come by. He was a very smart player and a good passer, it's just that scoring was so damn easy for him most of the time.

 

[Dogdeacon]

well said....People here who watched both have a different perspective than those that only saw Jordan on Youtube. With the spacing and lack of defense today, I agree with you that Jordan would have been unguardable. Could you imagine Lebron bludgeoned by the bad boy Pistons....and even the Oakley Knicks? Additionally, Bron got to manufacture his all star castmates...Jordan didn't have that luxury.

Agreed. Though I do believe LeBron figures his way past the Pistons like Jordan did (urban legend goes MJ hit the weight room) and especially by the 2nd half of his career when he finally added a post up game LeBron is suited well for a physical style - i.e. Bron probably averages 10 more PPG than Malone playing with Stockton.

Back to my original point though, when Ray Allen joined the Heat & the Decision fallout was dying down I made a conscious decision to root for LeBron so that I could enjoy his greatness more. I'm glad I did this and he's a joy to watch. But there was never any need to 'choose' to root for Michael. Whenever you watched him it was so goshdarn compelling, fluid and beautiful that we all could not help but enjoy it and marvel in sheer wonder.

And re-living that sense of awe is what makes this documentary so great. If you aren't enjoying that you are totally missing the boat.

 

[auggie22]

If Jordan didn't break his foot and then didn't take the two years off when his father was murdered he would have led the league in scoring every single season of his career as a Bull. He was also the best perimeter defender in the league (Jordan or Scottie.) Without the murder of his dad and Krause breaking the Bulls up he would've had at a minimum 8 titles. It's hard to overstate how truly dominant he was. It would be silly what he would do to the league now with the way the game is played.

One thing I forgot about was how incredible he was at using the glass. He would bank in jumpers from every angle.

As for the Lebron talk, I always thought the more apt comparison is Magic and Bird.

Can you imagine how often Jordan would get into and finish in the lane with virtually no hand checking? His fg% would be silly. He would be literally unguardable today.