John Marinatto Resigns

[Dann]

nd ditched for the b12 last night, as result the bball school are splitting and neither group wants marinate in charge so they nicely say bye bye.

this sucks even more if lville/cincy go with fsu/clem.

 

[Vowelguy]

I have a feeling that now that Notre Dame has absolutely no use for the BE football conference,

Wow, I guess I missed that period when ND did have a use for the BE football conference.

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

Wow, I guess I missed that period when ND did have a use for the BE football conference.

With BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, etc...it gave them a league with northeastern schools that they wanted to be affiliated with, as well as a partner for BCS and bowl tie-ins. With BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU gone and with the BE having no BCS AQ or bowl tie in credibility...the BE football now has no use to Notre Dame. That was not the case previously. Losing those schools off of their schedules for other sports was a threat to them. They have already lost those schools now that they have all left. So they need to get rid of the SMU, Memphis, Houston, etc on their schedule but keep a decent league as an alternative for their olympic sports. Kill off the BE football while keeping the BE olympic sports is perfect for them.

 

[UCFBfan]

With BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, etc...it gave them a league with northeastern schools that they wanted to be affiliated with, as well as a partner for BCS and bowl tie-ins. With BC, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU gone and with the BE having no BCS AQ or bowl tie in credibility...the BE football now has no use to Notre Dame. That was not the case previously. Losing those schools off of their schedules for other sports was a threat to them. They have already lost those schools now that they have all left. So they need to get rid of the SMU, Memphis, Houston, etc on their schedule but keep a decent league as an alternative for their olympic sports. Kill off the BE football while keeping the BE olympic sports is perfect for them.

What does is gain Notre Dame to have the BE football side destroyed? If they decide to leave with the bball only schools, why would they care what happens to the remaining schools in football? They would no longer be affiliated with them. As it stands now, with no AQ status anymore, ND football has zero tie-in with the Big East in football. Since the Champs Sports Bowl took them this past year, they can no longer use them as a bowl team from the Big East. I believe they could only be used once during the length of the contract. So ND football has ZERO tie in to the BE in football. I don't see what value it gives them if the NBE survives or doesn't in football.....?

The bigger issue is what happens to the bball only schools if it is true that they are the ones that drove Marianatto away. If they did this, they clearly don't like the direction of the NBE and now you're looking at a major *storm should they decide to break away. Big changes are coming I feel. (Besides the massive ones that have already happened!)

 

[UConnSportsGuy]

So ND football has ZERO tie in to the BE in football. I don't see what value it gives them if the NBE survives or doesn't in football.....?

Because if the NBE survives, then Notre Dame is stuck having to play Memphis, UCF, SMU, Houston, Temple, etc in all sports. If they are able to get the basketball onlies to split off from the football schools...that will not be the case. So ND has an interest in having the Big East split at this point. That is my point.

 

[UCFBfan]

Because if the NBE survives, then Notre Dame is stuck having to play Memphis, UCF, SMU, Houston, Temple, etc in all sports. If they are able to get the basketball onlies to split off from the football schools...that will not be the case. So ND has an interest in having the Big East split at this point. That is my point.

I gotcha. I just wasn't sure why they'd have to destroy the FB side of things to reach that end. Clearly they were probably driving the bball schools to get the Commish fired and if ND decides to stick around, will push to split from the FB schools. I agree they have no interest in playing SMU, UCF, or Houston. It's going to get interesting.....

 

[RS9999X]

We will know better after the B12 drama is done and the BE contract terms are proposed.

I'm of the belief Marinatto wasn't in a position to add any more value. He was in a damned if you do or don't position anyway with the BCS contract in flux.

If Lousiville leaves and the BCS money is gone and the contract comes in at $10 mil or under a school (and it could if LU leaves), was pro-active expansion really necessary. Will SDSU, Boise, SMU, and Navy carry their own weight? What about the DePaul problem? Is Boise still looking for Western Partners?

Who was promised what? Who knew what when? Nova Football? It's all pretty ugly and reactionary.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Because if the NBE survives, then Notre Dame is stuck having to play Memphis, UCF, SMU, Houston, Temple, etc in all sports. If they are able to get the basketball onlies to split off from the football schools...that will not be the case. So ND has an interest in having the Big East split at this point. That is my point.

False line of thinking. To compete at the FBS/BCS level of football, a university must qualify as a division 1-A institution with the NCAA. To be divison 1-A, you have to carry a minimum number of both mens and women's varsity sports.

An athletic conference consisting of only Big East parochial basketball schools would leave Notre Dame very much short of an adequate athletic conference to maintain division 1-A status and NOT have to go through the mess of sheduling multiple varsity sports entire seasons as independants.

Since Notre Dame still clearly values independance in football above all else, and failure of the Big EAst confernce would force them to either go nearly 100% independant as an athletic department, OR join a conference - none of which would take ND without football (aside from lower level conferences)

Long story short - what you're saying? Not happening.

 

[Fishy]

Since Notre Dame still clearly values independance in football above all else, and failure of the Big EAst confernce would force them to either go nearly 100% independant as an athletic department, OR join a conference - none of which would take ND without football (aside from lower level conferences)

I think Notre Dame looks at us the way my second-grader looks at the fish in her fish tank.

She likes them and enjoys watching them swim about, but if the whole lot of them died overnight, she'd be over it before before breakfast.

I agree with Carl, Notre Dame has nothing to gain with a conference split. Notre Dame has the benefit of options - they can move almost wherever they want whenever they want simply by picking up the phone. Killing the Big East removes an option for them - that is against their interests.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Wow, I guess I missed that period when ND did have a use for the BE football conference.

They got to take the Gator Bowl bid every year for years. That may have predated UConn's participation in football.

 

[RS9999X]

Before Joining the BE Notre Dame would do their basketball tour of the East Coast -- Boston, Providence, NYC, Philly, and Washington DC. Instead of playing older powers like Holy Cross and LaSalle and Fairfield and St Francis and Boston University and Fordham and they went with the newer Catholic Powers when joining the BE--Nova, Georgetown, BC, etc.

BE basketball is still the best option for them as an indie.

Here's their 1980 schedule: In some way things haven't changed. The Catholic tour is very much a part of their tradition.

http://www.fanbase.com/Notre-Dame-Fighting-Irish-Mens-Basketball-1980-81/schedule

It's a marriage of convenience. Nothing more.

 

[kingdobbs]

False line of thinking. To compete at the FBS/BCS level of football, a university must qualify as a division 1-A institution with the NCAA. To be divison 1-A, you have to carry a minimum number of both mens and women's varsity sports.

An athletic conference consisting of only Big East parochial basketball schools would leave Notre Dame very much short of an adequate athletic conference to maintain division 1-A status and NOT have to go through the mess of sheduling multiple varsity sports entire seasons as independants.

The extent to which this is actually a problem is overstated. They have golf, rowing, tennis, track and field, swimming and diving, and cross country which are already scheduled "like an independent", because that's how everyone schedules in those sports. There would be no Big East competition in ice hockey or fencing because of the low participation rates of those sports.

That only leaves basketball, baseball/softball, lacrosse, soccer, and volleyball that Notre Dame would have to worry about. If Notre Dame were to stay with the Catholics, then men's lacrosse is set, because of the 8 teams that will play Big East lacrosse, only Syracuse and Rutgers aren't in that group (Villanova, St. John's, Georgetown, Providence, Marquette). 7 of the 8 Catholics play softball, and all of them play men's and women's soccer and volleyball.

That just leaves baseball and women's lacrosse. The current WLAX Big East is 4 "football" (Louisville, Rutgers, Cincinnati, UConn), 4 Catholic (Georgetown, Loyola, Villanova, Notre Dame) and Syracuse with their foot out the door. However, WLAX has at least two lacrosse-only conferences (the NLC, comprised of mostly recent upgrades to the sport, and the American Lacrosse Conference, which has six major schools plus Johns Hopkins, who is a major when it comes to lax), so Notre Dame should have no trouble finding a hold in either. As far as baseball goes, there's only four of the Catholics that play including the Irish, so...invite Xavier and Dayton for all-sports, and call it a day.

 

[AJC88]

Wasn't ND on the board for conference expansion? If they were and I'm correct, why would they suddenly have a problem playing those they just helped pick?

 

[HuskyHawk]

I gotcha. I just wasn't sure why they'd have to destroy the FB side of things to reach that end. Clearly they were probably driving the bball schools to get the Commish fired and if ND decides to stick around, will push to split from the FB schools. I agree they have no interest in playing SMU, UCF, or Houston. It's going to get interesting.....

They also have an interest in maximizing the percentage of revenue for any TV deal that goes to basketball/non-football schools. I suspect that they have correctly surmized that the proposed 75-25 split wasn't fair. It would be more than fair for the SEC, but basketball in the BE is worth closer to 55-45 compared to football.

If the BB schools plus ND can raid the A10, adding Xavier, UMass, St. Joes, they effectively form a new Catholic league (plus UMass). ND, GTown, Nova, St. Johns, SH, DePaul, Marquette, X, Umass, St. Joes. It's entirely plausible to me that such a league would be very solid for hoops and earn more by itself than the BB share of the BE. It would be much more aligned with where ND wants to be, with the great coverage of the major Catholic regions in the North East and midwest.

 

[Carl Spackler]

You basketball fans are all dreaming. Any separation of the conference of the basketball schools from the money attached to 1-A football, means that the basketball colleges are willingly giving up direct access to the incredible revenue streams around college football, and they will see their athletic department budgets shrink dramatically.

Basketball money cannot sustain a league at the level of football revenue can. It's that frigging simple. Good lord, the big east has been able to maintain itself in the top level of revenue streams with the clusterduck of programs that were thrown together in 2003 that football league has been since 2002.

Basketball money is in the NCAA tournament. The big east basketball revenue bubble is a mirage based on putting so many teams per year in the tournament since expanding to 16. That's not going to happen forever, and the only way the big east loses on basketball, is if those catholic schools that have been bottom feeders for so long, and failing to field winnign teams, continue to suck wind and fail to make the tourney in place of the Syracuse, PItt and WVU that have left.

What makes anyone think that all of a sudden, Prov, SH, SJ, Depaul are going to start making hte tourney in a different league, that has just as many members, and better quality?

By adding the UCF, SMU, etc. b-ball programs, those catholics just increased their chances of actually fielding winning teams again.

Anything is possible, but I would bet the farm and the pension that there is no split of the big east coming in 2012, or anytime in the future.