Jim Fuller: Are there too many former UConn players on the U.S. women’s basketball team?

[MilfordHusky]

Sue is the smartest player on a team full of smart players and the best leader in the league. No one runs a team as well as she does, but Moriah could be at that level in time.

 

[JordyG]

I can certainly be somebody, and having done the research your Thesis-that "other schools dominated previous Olympic WBB teams" cannot be validated.
Over the last two Olympic UCONN has had 6 and 5 players on the US WBB Olympic roster. Only two schools UCONN 2004 & TN 2008 have had as many 3 former players on the same Olympic roster.

My question to Jim is: why is this an issue now? In 2012 there were more (6) former UCONN players on the Olympic team than this current team (5).

1976-None
1984-None
1988-None
1992 Theresa Edwards & Katrina McClain (Georgia)
1992 Vickie Orr & Carolyn Jones-Young (Auburn)
1996 Jennifer Azzi & Katy Steding (Stanford)
1996 Theresa Edwards & Katrina McClain (Georgia)
1996 Carla McGhee & Nikki McCray (TN)
2000 Chamique Holdsclaw & Nikki McCray (TN)
2004 Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi & Swim Cash (UCONN)
2004 TinaThompson & Lisa Leslie (USC)
2008 Simone Augustus & Sylvia Fowles (LSU)
2008 Kara Lawson, Tamika Catchings, & Candace Parker (TN)
2008 Sue Bird & Diana Taurasi (UCONN)
2012 Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore, Asjha Jones, Swin Cash, Tina Charles (UCONN)
2012 Simone Augustus & Sylvia Fowles (LSU)
2012 Tamika Catchings, & Candace Parker (TN)
2016 Simone Augustus & Sylvia Fowles (LSU)
2016 Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore, Tina Charles, Breanna Stewart (UCONN)

May I be the first to complain when the next Olympics has 4 or 5 as well even without Geno?

 

[Beemer]

I can certainly be somebody, and having done the research your Thesis-that "other schools dominated previous Olympic WBB teams" cannot be validated.
Over the last two Olympic UCONN has had 6 and 5 players on the US WBB Olympic roster. Only two schools UCONN 2004 & TN 2008 have had as many 3 former players on the same Olympic roster.

My question to Jim is: why is this an issue now? In 2012 there were more (6) former UCONN players on the Olympic team than this current team (5).

1976-None
1984-None
1988-None
1992 Theresa Edwards & Katrina McClain (Georgia)
1992 Vickie Orr & Carolyn Jones-Young (Auburn)
1996 Jennifer Azzi & Katy Steding (Stanford)
1996 Theresa Edwards & Katrina McClain (Georgia)
1996 Carla McGhee & Nikki McCray (TN)
2000 Chamique Holdsclaw & Nikki McCray (TN)
2004 Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi & Swim Cash (UCONN)
2004 TinaThompson & Lisa Leslie (USC)
2008 Simone Augustus & Sylvia Fowles (LSU)
2008 Kara Lawson, Tamika Catchings, & Candace Parker (TN)
2008 Sue Bird & Diana Taurasi (UCONN)
2012 Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore, Asjha Jones, Swin Cash, Tina Charles (UCONN)
2012 Simone Augustus & Sylvia Fowles (LSU)
2012 Tamika Catchings, & Candace Parker (TN)
2016 Simone Augustus & Sylvia Fowles (LSU)
2016 Sue Bird, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore, Tina Charles, Breanna Stewart (UCONN)

Interesting. Thank you.

 

[alexrgct]

Exactly. the WNBA season really had zero to do with who was selected. They had "tryouts" where many players were invited, and after evaluating them, the committee decided on the current team. Based on the WNBA performances this season, it seems clear that players like Ogwumike, Loyd, Sims and McBride (and even Jefferson) are all making cases for serious consideration the next time they have tryouts to select the NC team for the WC's in 2018. But the 5 UCONN players on the team are pretty much not only the best at their positions in the US, but arguably the best at their positions in the word.

Well, maybe Stewie not so much right now, but she's #5 in the league in scoring, #2 in rebounding, and #15 in assists. She's certainly holding her own. Bottom line - theSTew team would have more of a flavor of other schools if there were other players who were ready to step up at this time. Thing is, the last 2 players on the team probably were Augustus and Catchings so even if you took out the "weakest links" and replaced them with Loyd and Sims, you still would have 5 UCONN players on the team...

Agree completely, There are players selected on the team based on potential (Candace Parker in 2008, Stewie right now), and some whose protracted and great career accomplishments and experience get them on the team (Augustus, Catchings, etc.). The combination of youth and experience is a winner.

This is the fourth time Geno has been head coach of Team USAW (two Olympics, two FIBA world tourneys), and he's earned the right to decide who's on the team. Maya and Tina are great together (yes, still), Stewie is this year's just-graduated senior (and deservedly so), and the great 2002 remnants absolutely deserve what could be their last bid.

Geno is taking the risk. If Team USA wins gold, he clearly staffed the squad correctly. If the American women don't win gold, he gets some egg on his face. Until then, Geno deserves to coach, everyone on the squad deserves their spot, and if any communists from certain fanbases will root in their heart of hearts against Team USA because they're Geno/UConn haters, there may just be a special place in Hades for them...

 

[Justavisitor]

Winning the gold isn't the issue. The US could field 2 teams and claim Gold and Silver. They are truly that much better than the competition. The issue is making sure that those who represent the USA are the best talent. That didn't happen and in the history of the Oympics, no elite level player has been spurned in this manner. Candace didn't deserve that type of treatment. She, like Stewart, Maya, EDD, DT, and Catchings, should be shoe ins for as long as they can compete at a high level.

 

[CocoHusky]

That didn't happen and in the history of the Oympics, no elite level player has been spurned in this manner.

The 1992 "dream" Olympic team excluded Isaiah Thomas and Shaquille O'Neil. While I agree with your point that CP should be on the team to say it has never happened before is not accurate.

 

[meyers7]

Winning the gold isn't the issue. The US could field 2 teams and claim Gold and Silver. They are truly that much better than the competition. The issue is making sure that those who represent the USA are the best talent. That didn't happen and in the history of the Oympics, no elite level player has been spurned in this manner. Candace didn't deserve that type of treatment. She, like Stewart, Maya, EDD, DT, and Catchings, should be shoe ins for as long as they can compete at a high level.

You are very confused (as are some others in this thread) on what the Olympic team is and what it's supposed to do/be. It is not an all-star team. It really doesn't matter what a player does in the WNBA, the Olympics are not the WNBA. The international game is quite different than the WNBA. There have been numerous competitions (prior Olympics, WCs, U23's, U21's U19's, etc.) and camps to evaluate the players. (along with international play) WNBA stats don't really mean anything in this area.

The Olympic team is just that...a TEAM (not a collection of WNBA all-stars) that will win the Gold. That's it, nothing more. It is not supposed to be a representation of colleges or WNBA teams. Prior experience matters a lot (whether right or wrong here, and this is where an argument can be made) a whole lot. Hence Bird and Catchings and Augustus.

Personally I would have had Parker on MY team. I am willing to say though, that I might have been wrong in that. Watching this team, I'm not sure where she would fit. She's definitely not a 1/2/3 so she wouldn't replace Bird/DT/Whalen/Augustus/McCaughtry/Moore/Catchings. I would not take Parker over Fowles/Charles/Griner in the Post. Parker is not really a post, at least defensively. She's a 4, but not really a stretch 4. (Sure a point forward, but this team doesn't need that when you have Bird/DT/Whalen). And as stretch fours, EDD and Stewart have much better range. I really can't see where Parker would fit in on this team. I like Parker, I think she's a great player. But after watching what they want to do with this team, I don't really see where she would have fit in.

I think the committee might have gotten this one right, against my judgement.

 

[CocoHusky]

You are very confused (as are some others in this thread) on what the Olympic team is and what it's supposed to do/be. It is not an all-star team. It really doesn't matter what a player does in the WNBA, the Olympics are not the WNBA. The international game is quite different than the WNBA. There have been numerous competitions (prior Olympics, WCs, U23's, U21's U19's, etc.) and camps to evaluate the players. (along with international play) WNBA stats don't really mean anything in this area.

The Olympic team is just that...a TEAM (not a collection of WNBA all-stars) that will win the Gold. That's it, nothing more. It is not supposed to be a representation of colleges or WNBA teams. Prior experience matters a lot (whether right or wrong here, and this is where an argument can be made) a whole lot. Hence Bird and Catchings and Augustus.

Personally I would have had Parker on MY team. I am willing to say though, that I might have been wrong in that. Watching this team, I'm not sure where she would fit. She's definitely not a 1/2/3 so she wouldn't replace Bird/DT/Whalen/Augustus/McCaughtry/Moore/Catchings. I would not take Parker over Fowles/Charles/Griner in the Post. Parker is not really a post, at least defensively. She's a 4, but not really a stretch 4. (Sure a point forward, but this team doesn't need that when you have Bird/DT/Whalen). And as stretch fours, EDD and Stewart have much better range. I really can't see where Parker would fit in on this team. I like Parker, I think she's a great player. But after watching what they want to do with this team, I don't really see where she would have fit in.

I think the committee might have gotten this one right, against my judgment.

What I love (not like) about your explanation is that is completely based on basketball ability and team fit and not personality. The personality aspect, specifically that accusation Parker was a bad teammate and Diva is something else than many on this board seem to be confused about.

 

[UcMiami]

You are very confused (as are some others in this thread) on what the Olympic team is and what it's supposed to do/be. It is not an all-star team. It really doesn't matter what a player does in the WNBA, the Olympics are not the WNBA. The international game is quite different than the WNBA. There have been numerous competitions (prior Olympics, WCs, U23's, U21's U19's, etc.) and camps to evaluate the players. (along with international play) WNBA stats don't really mean anything in this area.

The Olympic team is just that...a TEAM (not a collection of WNBA all-stars) that will win the Gold. That's it, nothing more. It is not supposed to be a representation of colleges or WNBA teams. Prior experience matters a lot (whether right or wrong here, and this is where an argument can be made) a whole lot. Hence Bird and Catchings and Augustus.

Personally I would have had Parker on MY team. I am willing to say though, that I might have been wrong in that. Watching this team, I'm not sure where she would fit. She's definitely not a 1/2/3 so she wouldn't replace Bird/DT/Whalen/Augustus/McCaughtry/Moore/Catchings. I would not take Parker over Fowles/Charles/Griner in the Post. Parker is not really a post, at least defensively. She's a 4, but not really a stretch 4. (Sure a point forward, but this team doesn't need that when you have Bird/DT/Whalen). And as stretch fours, EDD and Stewart have much better range. I really can't see where Parker would fit in on this team. I like Parker, I think she's a great player. But after watching what they want to do with this team, I don't really see where she would have fit in.

I think the committee might have gotten this one right, against my judgement.

Really good post. And I agree particularly with the segment that I highlighted. It is the balance of the team and especially the defensive strengths combined with offensive range that I think explains the selections. EDD is the 'wild card' to my mind who was not available for the last Olympic team and represents the position that Parker was competing for. The other player that I think falls into that category is Catchings and I think that is as much about loyalty as about playing capabilities. Catchings also remains one of the great defensive players, while her offense is secondary.
The USA team is not really concerned about offense - all the players on the team are capable of scoring 20 points a game if called upon to do so. The concern is more both their commitment to play defense, and their willingness to play on a team where taking 3 shots and scoring 2 points game after game does not bother them at all. (Or getting five minutes in blow out wins doesn't bother them either.)

 

[Wally East]

Winning the gold isn't the issue.

No, that's the issue. Winning the gold is always the issue.

in the history of the Oympics, no elite level player has been spurned in this manner.

It happens literally every four years. Yes, really.

2004. Chamique Holdsclaw had just come off of a 2003 WNBA season where she was the leading American scorer in the league (Lauren Jackson was tops) and the top rebounder and wasn't on the Olympic team.

Not on the 2000 team? Cynthia Cooper.

Not on the '96 team? Cynthia Cooper.

Also, Becky Hammon. Why do you think she went out and got Russian citizenship? She led the league in assists and was 5th in scoring in 2007. Not considered for the 2008 team.

Not on the 2008 team? Alana Beard.

Not on the 2012 team? Crystal Langhorne -- #4 scorer and #5 rebounder in 2011.

"Deserving" players are left out. Every. Single. Olympiad.

 

[meyers7]

What I love (not like) about your explanation is that is completely based on basketball ability and team fit and not personality. The personality aspect, specifically that accusation Parker was a bad teammate and Diva is something else than many on this board seem to be confused about.

I don't think it's personality. If it's anything NOT basketball ability, then it could be missing the WC's. They Committee really, really likes commitment to the program.

 

[meyers7]

The other player that I think falls into that category is Catchings and I think that is as much about loyalty as about playing capabilities. Catchings also remains one of the great defensive players, while her offense is secondary.
The USA team is not really concerned about offense - all the players on the team are capable of scoring 20 points a game if called upon to do so. The concern is more both their commitment to play defense, and their willingness to play on a team where taking 3 shots and scoring 2 points game after game does not bother them at all. (Or getting five minutes in blow out wins doesn't bother them either.)

Yea, it's seems pretty obvious, Catching is filling that 12 man slot (like AJ did last time). She's there for 1) leadership, 2) when they want to ratchet up the defense, and 3) because she's put so much into the program.

 

[uconnell]

Lobo was on the 1996 team coached by Tara Van derveer, who sat Lobo on the bench. I believe that Lobo never played for whatever reason. UConn fans were very upset, as was I. I was upset with Tara for a long time. So I understand other fans angst.

 

[cardfan]

I have on very good source that Geno wanted Nneka on the team, but the committee wanted Catchings. Geno was right, the committee was wrong, very wrong. Anyone with a bball brain knows Nneka should be on the team.

 

[DaddyChoc]

Yes. It would be best to have more universities represented. Stanford was a main stay in the final 4 and then Notre Dame has been in the final 4 for many years. These teams don't have that type of success without having a player that is worthy of being on the Olympic team. Yes, Candace Parker should also be on the team. The more universities that are represented, the better it is for the growth of the game. They should have dwindled the list down and then named the final team after surveying their play in the WNBA this season. By doing this, they could have easily seen who the best performers are right now. More youth should be on the team and unless a player is still a superstar performing at the same level they did in their early years, they shouldn't be given an automatic bid. It should be earned.

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/08/GIF-Excuse-me-WTF-OMG--Say-what-What-GIF.gif?gs=a

and this would have gotten CP3 on the team? or who shouldnt be on the team... Bird, Griner and DT3?

 

[DaddyChoc]

Lobo was on the 1996 team coached by Tara Van derveer, who sat Lobo on the bench. I believe that Lobo never played for whatever reason. UConn fans were very upset, as was I. I was upset with Tara for a long time. So I understand other fans angst.

Lobo was also a "rookie"... as is Stewie, so I wouldnt be surprised to see her sit BUT due to her former coach being the coach it "aint" gonna happen as much as Lobo. Besides Stewie is a better piece than Lobo was on her team

The symbolic college grad

 

[cbraarj]

I could live without Stewart this year. Also, just to prove I'm not anti-uconn, without Fowles, easily. Should definitely have Parker. Take off Stewart and Fowles for Parker and Nneka. Point Guards could be faster, better defensively, but there's no more experienced at this level. Only thing would've been to get experience for Sims, maybe, for 2020, instead of Augustus(know she's not a p.g.)? We have enough shooting guards and front court mixes.
If anyone took of his/her uconn blue and white glasses, you'd see Stewart doesn't have to be on the team. There's so much bias on this site. Ugh

USA WB has a history of taking the best CBB and placing her on the NT. Taurasi 04, Parker 08,Moore 12 and Stewart 16. Stewie deserves to be there! Statistically she is better than Parker at everything except assist. Let us look at Champioships since 2002. The Connecticut players have 9 NC but you add the WNBA Championships which is 8 since then and at both levels it is more than half.People complain the women dont get the respect they deserve and part of the reason is people keep treating them like girls and not the Professional Athletes that they are.Do we here any of this whining for the Mens Team. The women want equality but this certainly is not helping them.

 

[CocoHusky]

I have on very good source that Geno wanted Nneka on the team, but the committee wanted Catchings. Geno was right, the committee was wrong, very wrong. Anyone with a bball brain knows Nneka should be on the team.

My source-Pookie- said the opposite!

 

[EricSD]

I have on very good source that Geno wanted Nneka on the team, but the committee wanted Catchings. Geno was right, the committee was wrong, very wrong. Anyone with a bball brain knows Nneka should be on the team.

I can't speak to your source - but anyone who thinks Catch should have been left off the team in favor of anyone is flat out wrong IMHO.

Folks have already addressed the issue of talent on the team and that not always do the best individually talented players make the team because there's a lot more to it. With regards to Catch, no one in the world plays harder, and she has been there literally every single time Team USA has called, and it goes back to her junior years. Loyalty to Team USA and sacrifice to play for the country also goes a long way in determining who made the final cuts.

Lastly, as has been mentioned as well, the WNBA season thus far has zero to do with who made the team. We have no idea how Nneka fared in the tryouts. Her game is limited more than most players - she plays the 4. That's it. She's not big enough to bang with the 5's and she lacks the ability to consistently step out and drain the 3. Don't get me wrong - she's a great player and as her game grows, I have no doubt she will be seriously considered for Team USA. Just not this year... and certainly not over Catch...

 

[cardfan]

There are others besides Catch who could have been left off, but she is the most obvious. The problem this yr is they announced the Olympic team so early, earlier than ever before. They did it it so they could on the Today Show's 100 Days before Rio segment in April. Absurd. Nneka's stats don't lie. She should be on the team. The Rise — And Rise! — Of Nneka Ogwumike

 

[Jmpenn]

There are others besides Catch who could have been left off, but she is the most obvious. The problem this yr is they announced the Olympic team so early, earlier than ever before. They did it it so they could on the Today Show's 100 Days before Rio segment in April. Absurd. Nneka's stats don't lie. She should be on the team. The Rise — And Rise! — Of Nneka Ogwumike

Catch isn't the most obvious to be left off. Her stats on offense for this season are better than Augustus and Whalan and she is still playing at a very high level on defense. I do think they picked the team too early. IMO they didn't want to have to factor in who was playing the best so they picked the team early.

 

[Jmpenn]

I have on very good source that Geno wanted Nneka on the team, but the committee wanted Catchings. Geno was right, the committee was wrong, very wrong. Anyone with a bball brain knows Nneka should be on the team.

If Geno had wanted Nneka then she would be on the team. He has admitted that he had a lot of say this time.

 

[CajunHusky]

If Geno had wanted Nneka then she would be on the team. He has admitted that he had a lot of say this time.

He has? I would really like to see that quote.... anyone anyone Ferris?

 

[j66kicker]

He has? I would really like to see that quote.... anyone anyone Ferris?

I don't remember exactly where, but I remember him saying he had a lot of influence - possibly before the final selections were made...?

 

[CajunHusky]

An LA sportswriter's take on the evolution of Candace Parker.... and keep in mind that Olympic team selection was made BEFORE the WNBA season started.. Los Angeles Sparks: Candace Parker Shining on Team

Olympic team makeup: 11 WNBA players and one collegiate player (traditional)

so do you get .....minimum four guards (CP not a guard)....
the most accomplished Collegiate player in NCAA history...
arguably the best player in the WNBA (sorry CP gotta go with Tina on that one.
arguably the best defensive player in the WNBA (BG)
the second and third best players in the WNBA (EDD and MM)
everybody's favorite to make the team (Catch)

that's nine folks ......

the last two spots went to Fowles and McCoughtry

IMO Fowles is a no brainer; and I would go with McCoughtry over CP

 

[CocoHusky]

If Geno had wanted Nneka then she would be on the team. He has admitted that he had a lot of say this time.

He has? I would really like to see that quote.... anyone anyone Ferris?

I don't remember exactly where, but I remember him saying he had a lot of influence - possibly before the final selections were made...?

Here is one credible man's opinion.

"I am sure he (Geno) did not hold back in expressing his thoughts during the selection of the team. However, to assume that five committee members would just allow Auriemma to walk all over them just to get his way is quite a reach."
Jim Fuller
The New Haven Register Blogs: Elm City to Eagleville: Explaining Candace Parker's omission from Olympic team no easy chore

I agree with Jim.

 

[CajunHusky]

If Geno had wanted Nneka then she would be on the team. He has admitted that he had a lot of say this time.

Nneka has got to be the odds on favorite for MVP in the WNBA this year ...... she is the most glaring ommision from this team. But the selections were made before the season started .....

 

[CajunHusky]

Here is one credible man's opinion.

"I am sure he (Geno) did not hold back in expressing his thoughts during the selection of the team. However, to assume that five committee members would just allow Auriemma to walk all over them just to get his way is quite a reach."
Jim Fuller
The New Haven Register Blogs: Elm City to Eagleville: Explaining Candace Parker's omission from Olympic team no easy chore

I agree with Jim.

And I can certainly understand anyone taking that position....

but let's agree on one thing: opinion does not equal fact.

 

[DaddyChoc]

If Geno had wanted Nneka then she would be on the team. He has admitted that he had a lot of say this time.

that was a cool swipe... #flipthescript #sameresults

 

[cardfan]

If Geno had wanted Nneka then she would be on the team. He has admitted that he had a lot of say this time.

That's not what he told my source. The committee has final say. Just like in '96, Tara didn't want Lobo, but she got her.