Jeff Jacobs: Herbst happy UConn ‘back to the place where all the magic happened.’

[Adios]

not sure Benedict was a great hire.An already bad football team was pushed further into the dumpster under his watch.

We are better off as an independent than a member of the AAC, apparently.

 

[Adios]

FSU and Clemson were hard no's, they wanted the best traditional FB brands, we weren't that. Most of the other FB leaning schools went along, including Miami, VT, and GT.

The basketball centered schools were in our corner but not adamant about us over Cuse. Pitt, or UL. They weren't about to cause a rift over us when the others offered 70 cents on the dollar in BB.

BC, Pitt and Syracuse were actively against us in the interest of self preservation. They assumed a zero sum game in terms of northeast success in recruiting and popularly. They failed to account for buzz created by the old big east rivalries not traveling well in a southern conference. Miami also backed this group.

Let's not rewrite history. Herbst took a contested shot and missed. Other than thr money, none of the old BE schools made out well from the move with the possible exception of VT.

The northern schools probably regret it now, given how much clout they have in their own conference.

 

[UCTitleTown]

The worst president at the worst possible time. Not a good combination.

 

[uconnfan68]

The northern schools probably regret it now, given how much clout they have in their own conference.

Good.

 

[XLCenterFan]

How much did tuition and fees increase under Herbst leadership? UConn is no bargain for the best and brightest from Connecticut.
Many parents are sending their kids to state Universities all over the country. Most of these students will never return to CT once they graduate.
Our state tax dollars subsidize our ‘flagship’ University-yet the price to attend has increased over 50% under Herbst presidency.
Fix the cost to attend UConn before propping up a failed athletic dept.

I wouldn't say many parents are sending their kids to out-of-state/private over UConn. Some are. They are more likely to send them to a CCSU or an ECSU. It's difficult to get into UConn nowadays...and it used to be a backup school.
And what are you calling a "bargain?" At $31K for in-state, UConn IS a bargain, especially when compared to private degrees in CT and big publics in the region. UMass out-of-state is about $35K, and the education is essentially the same. UVM is like $40K. UNH, $34K. URI, $31K. And forget about sending a kid to the Alabama's, LSU's, or Wyoming's of the world. Privates in CT are super expensive, and UConn is a better education than all of them except for Yale, Trinity, Wesleyan, and Conn College.
I have always felt that although CT costs a little more (to be educated here, and to live here), we get what we pay for. I was raised in CT, and so was my wife. We both went to school in CT, and we will never leave - it's the best state IMO.

 

[Zissou]

We both went to school in CT, and we will never leave - it's the best state IMO.

Then how do you know?

 

[BapeKidd88]

We were considered the favorite when Louisville joined. They did a much better job of pitching their program to the ACC while Suzie was asleep at the wheel. How many millions did this cost the University and the state?

If the ACC would have happened, the records in football and basketball probably would have been worse than they were in the AAC (is that possible?)
I'm not sure how going to the ACC would have changed the hiring decisions of the athletic department.

 

[XLCenterFan]

Then how do you know?

I’ve traveled extensively throughout the US and I have friends scattered around the country. Unless you’re in a very few select areas, outside of the New England/Tri-State area, the rest of the country is a dump IMO. CT takes the cake.

 

[SubbaBub]

The northern schools probably regret it now, given how much clout they have in their own conference.

This was even said at the time to try to keep them in the fold. Miami was sold on the idea that their brand would be better off in a FB centric conference that didn't have to feed non-FB playing schools. Mimai chose Cuse and BC to come along to maintain ties to their NE donor base. This became Cuse and VT when the VA legislature (UVA by proxy) demanded VT be included. When Cuse decided to stay then BC played Judas after initially being bumped in favor of VT.

Cuse and Pitt bailed after a disappointing TV deal and saw the writing on the wall. UL got in late but had the support of the ACC FB schools and the former BE schools afraid of a cash flushed UConn.

If a post mortum is necessary, UConn made two critical missteps above all others.

1. They didn't start D1 FB early enough. Should have made the transition when Miami joined the BE. This is pure hindsight, but given what we know now, it if safe to assume that by 2002 we would have been a lot more attractive to Miami and the ACC than BC or Cuse. Certainly by 2012.

2. UConn was too committed to the Big East at the expense of it's own interests, this included assuming the other schools were equally committed. If in 2003, UConn was more active behind the scenes about future ACC membership, as apparently Cuse and Pitt were, they wouldn't have been blindsided in the way they were.

In the end, our level of comfort as a BB school in a regional league of mixed public and private, FB/BB centric schools was our downfall.

None of the traitors made out all that well but no one is asking questions about the future of their FB programs.

 

[pj]

The northern schools probably regret it now, given how much clout they have in their own conference.

Yes, they would have been better off moving the center of the conference northward and having another northeastern rival. Now they are off on the fringe of the conference. The alliance with the football schools to keep UConn out didn't work out for them.

UConn got caught up in the friction between the football schools (esp Florida State and Clemson) and the basketball schools (UNC and Duke) where the football schools felt they had been dominated and wanted to assert themselves, and so UConn's alliance with UNC and Duke worked against us a bit. Still, with good leadership we could have overcome this. The ACC would have been better off with the flagship university of Connecticut (with a proven fanbase in New York City) than with a regional college in the smaller and poorer state of Kentucky. ESPN would have backed this up. It was a failure of leadership to fail to persuade the ACC schools to see their self interest more clearly.

 

[Travelman6]

I At $31K for in-state, UConn IS a bargain,

That is absolutely not a bargain. College costs, across the board in the USA are the exact opposite of bargain and, in fact, are overpriced and leave the majority of students with insane amounts of debt upon graduation or dropping out, which total something like 1.5 trillion combined. UNI in the states is a rip-off. You can get the same, or better EDU in many parts of the world, especially Western Europe, for a fraction of the cost. It would be cheaper for me to fly to some of these countries, rent a flat and go to school and fly back for the holidays and/or vacation during free time than it would be to go to school in the USA and I'd have the exact same, or better education, with more weekly classroom hours than what you get at a UNI in the us.

 

[XLCenterFan]

That is absolutely not a bargain. College costs, across the board in the USA are the exact opposite of bargain and, in fact, are overpriced and leave the majority of students with insane amounts of debt upon graduation or dropping out, which total something like 1.5 trillion combined. UNI in the states is a rip-off. You can get the same, or better EDU in many parts of the world, especially Western Europe, for a fraction of the cost. It would be cheaper for me to fly to some of these countries, rent a flat and go to school and fly back for the holidays and/or vacation during free time than it would be to go to school in the USA and I'd have the exact same, or better education, with more weekly classroom hours than what you get at a UNI in the us.

Considering the average lifetime earning power with a degree from Uconn, I’d say it has great expected value. Graduating with less than $100K in debt is not that big of a burden when spread out. I paid off a $25K car loan in like 4 years. I do think that too many people are told they have to go to college. That’s a big part of the student loan problem. The biggest IMO. Also, many employers in the states will not recognize many degrees from abroad.

 

[Greedo]

Graduating with less than $100K in debt is not that big of a burden when spread out.

I have to disagree but I guess it’s all relative. I finished UConn with 50k of debt to pay off. I pay $630 per month on my student loans. On a teacher’s salary that is tough.

 

[StllH8L8ner]

I have to disagree but I guess it’s all relative. I finished UConn with 50k of debt to pay off. I pay $630 per month on my student loans. On a teacher’s salary that is tough.

After doing distance learning with a 7 year-old for 3 months, I can say without a doubt you deserve to get paid more.

 

[XLCenterFan]

I have to disagree but I guess it’s all relative. I finished UConn with 50k of debt to pay off. I pay $630 per month on my student loans. On a teacher’s salary that is tough.

That is tough - I'm not saying it's not. I still have about $40K of school debt to pay off, so I feel your pain. I just also believe that a degree is basically an investment in one's self. Without it, one's earning power is greatly diminished. I look at it as a stock purchase, or a small business startup cost. It's a relatively small price to pay for what it's total worth ends up being, lifetime. Would we rather rough it without a degree, or take on some debt for an overall better shot at an easier life with a likelihood of retiring? I'm glad I took on some debt.

The whole student loan process also needs revamping. Repayment should be able to be spread out much longer, and the interest should be damn near zero.

 

[XLCenterFan]

After doing distance learning with a 7 year-old for 3 months, I can say without a doubt you deserve to get paid more.

Teachers are underpaid. My mother teaches middle school math, and I see her dedication and the nonsense she has to deal with at times.

 

[Goatmeat]

I have to disagree but I guess it’s all relative. I finished UConn with 50k of debt to pay off. I pay $630 per month on my student loans. On a teacher’s salary that is tough.

With any loan of any kind, whether it be real estate or education, it is imperative to thoroughly evaluate your ROI. While teaching is considered a noble profession, it has a horrible ROI. Did you not know this prior to attending college and pursuing education as a field? If this is news to you, that would be a good conversation to have with your guidance counselor. If it was known and a conscious choice, then so be it. For lack of a better phrase - “you’ve made your bed, now lie in it.” The pensions, early retirement, amazing health insurance, 3 months off per year, etc more than make up for it.

I do think the “return” to the BE is a good thing. I grew up a huge mbb fan and loved football once they went FBS, but it’s been a rough few years. I think the football schools will eventually “devolve” into a football-only conference with several perennial powerhouses and all of this P5 nonsense will be irrelevant. Schools like wake, duke, northwestern, vandy, ga tech, BC, cuse, unc, can only live off of their connections for so long. New contract negotiations will negate all of these “bottom-feeders” in the P5.

I scroll through the TV channels and see “Alabama vs South Carolina women’s volleyball.” The clock is ticking. Can’t imagine the ratings for these silly fillers. This is not going to last.

 

[XLCenterFan]

With any loan of any kind, whether it be real estate or education, it is imperative to thoroughly evaluate your ROI. While teaching is considered a noble profession, it has a horrible ROI. Did you not know this prior to attending college and pursuing education as a field? If this is news to you, that would be a good conversation to have with your guidance counselor. If it was known and a conscious choice, then so be it. For lack of a better phrase - “you’ve made your bed, now lie in it.” The pensions, early retirement, amazing health insurance, 3 months off per year, etc more than make up for it.

This is the problem. Guidance counselors aren't even allowed to tell kids that being a real estate agent or an electrician is an option. You want to see a guidance counselor lose their job in a heartbeat? Watch how quick it happens when they tell Connor or Taylor in Avon that college doesn't have to be the only option. We live in a system that pushes college and only college, regardless of academic ability, career options, or ability to pay.

Those are some good job perks, I agree. I also agree with student loan forgiveness when someone chooses a noble profession such as teacher, social worker, mental health specialist, or the like. Having some debt and going to work in VC/finance or continuing on to law school should not be treated the same as people who chose to earn less to contribute to society. A teacher should never be paying $630/month in student loans.

 

[Greedo]

With any loan of any kind, whether it be real estate or education, it is imperative to thoroughly evaluate your ROI. While teaching is considered a noble profession, it has a horrible ROI. Did you not know this prior to attending college and pursuing education as a field? If this is news to you, that would be a good conversation to have with your guidance counselor. If it was known and a conscious choice, then so be it. For lack of a better phrase - “you’ve made your bed, now lie in it.” The pensions, early retirement, amazing health insurance, 3 months off per year, etc more than make up for it.

To be clear, I wasn't complaining, just commenting that having less than $100k in debt isn't necessarily relatively easy to pay off just because you have a college degree. As far as the pension, honestly I'd rather be paid more and not have a pension when I retire. I could easily have more money in retirement with proper investing. I've done the math. I guess generally retirement is a little earlier... I need to go 35 years to get full pension. But I have friends' parents that retired at the same age in other careers. The health insurance in teaching used to be amazing. It no longer is. I had far better health insurance and paid way less when I worked at an engineering firm before switching careers to teaching. The summers off are great, but my salary is based off of 10 months of working. I don't get paid for the summers.

And again, I fully understood that teachers don't get paid great, and knew that going into it. I became a teacher because it's fun and I love my job. I just felt the need to clarify a few things because a lot of people think being a teacher has better benefits than it actually does. For reference, I work in PA, which is one of the best states for pay and benefits relative to cost of living. I'm not sure how CT compares.

 

[Adios]

Yes, they would have been better off moving the center of the conference northward and having another northeastern rival. Now they are off on the fringe of the conference. The alliance with the football schools to keep UConn out didn't work out for them.

UConn got caught up in the friction between the football schools (esp Florida State and Clemson) and the basketball schools (UNC and Duke) where the football schools felt they had been dominated and wanted to assert themselves, and so UConn's alliance with UNC and Duke worked against us a bit. Still, with good leadership we could have overcome this. The ACC would have been better off with the flagship university of Connecticut (with a proven fanbase in New York City) than with a regional college in the smaller and poorer state of Kentucky. ESPN would have backed this up. It was a failure of leadership to fail to persuade the ACC schools to see their self interest more clearly.

UL probably pushed an interconference rivalry with UK as a selling point. UConn wouldn't be able to match that, if the goal is to strengthen the conference.

 

[Goatmeat]

To be clear, I wasn't complaining, just commenting that having less than $100k in debt isn't necessarily relatively easy to pay off just because you have a college degree. As far as the pension, honestly I'd rather be paid more and not have a pension when I retire. I could easily have more money in retirement with proper investing. I've done the math. I guess generally retirement is a little earlier... I need to go 35 years to get full pension. But I have friends' parents that retired at the same age in other careers. The health insurance in teaching used to be amazing. It no longer is. I had far better health insurance and paid way less when I worked at an engineering firm before switching careers to teaching. The summers off are great, but my salary is based off of 10 months of working. I don't get paid for the summers.

And again, I fully understood that teachers don't get paid great, and knew that going into it. I became a teacher because it's fun and I love my job. I just felt the need to clarify a few things because a lot of people think being a teacher has better benefits than it actually does. For reference, I work in PA, which is one of the best states for pay and benefits relative to cost of living. I'm not sure how CT compares.

I never said you were complaining - not sure why you got defensive over that point. A college degree is worth what you put into it - if you spend $100K on an art history degree, you are getting robbed - a degree in comp sci and you are good to go. The fact that you have a pension (even though you complain about it) is still more than most could ever hope for in an ideal situation. Since you only work 10 months a year, it’s not valid to complain about only being paid for a job that you have 10 months out of the year. You don’t deserve to get paid for the summers because you are not working. Not sure where your gripe is, and regardless of the comparison between PA and CT, teachers still make a decent amount for the work they provide.

 

[Get a Job]

I never said you were complaining - not sure why you got defensive over that point. A college degree is worth what you put into it - if you spend $100K on an art history degree, you are getting robbed - a degree in comp sci and you are good to go. The fact that you have a pension (even though you complain about it) is still more than most could ever hope for in an ideal situation. Since you only work 10 months a year, it’s not valid to complain about only being paid for a job that you have 10 months out of the year. You don’t deserve to get paid for the summers because you are not working. Not sure where your gripe is, and regardless of the comparison between PA and CT, teachers still make a decent amount for the work they provide.

You state that you aren't accusing him or her of complaining, and then go on to do just that 3 times. If you are just being provocative, then well done. If this is just how you are, however, well, let's just say I feel sorry for anyone who lives with you.

 

[superjohn]

I’ve traveled extensively throughout the US and I have friends scattered around the country. Unless you’re in a very few select areas, outside of the New England/Tri-State area, the rest of the country is a dump IMO. CT takes the cake.

That's a silly statement.

 

[David 76]

Ollie forced out Ollie sooner than anticipated,

at the time, a lot of us thought we were stuck with Ollie for another year just due to the contract. I think DB deserves some credit for being aggressive.

 

[Zissou]

Finances are the first priorities for Trustees. BC, Cuse, and Pitt are happy with their position from that high level view.

Alumni and fans have to be disappointed. There is not nearly the magic or interest in the nACC. It’s ok to enjoy their suffering.

If you marry for money, you may have money, but you may not be happy.

 

[buddy]

That’s a load of malarkey, but nice spin. The only schools that don’t want us are the usual suspects in our backyard because we are huge threat - Syracuse and BC. VTech, Miami, Miami had no axe to grind. Hell, until the wheels fell off thanks to massive mismanagement, UConn was a rising star in the CFB. Louisville is not a football school either by any definition. I hate the revisionist nonsense.

Former Miami President Donna Shalala hated that UConn sued them. They and BC are the two schools that initially let the charge against UConn. The others then fell in line.

 

[Palatine]

Former Miami President Donna Shalala hated that UConn sued them. They and BC are the two schools that initially let the charge against UConn. The others then fell in line.

Miami and BCU had no real power in the ACC. They still don't. Miami had enough bargaining power to bring BCU into the ACC hidden in their butt. But once inside the conference. Neither carried any weight.

 

[BigTenFan]

I wouldn't say many parents are sending their kids to out-of-state/private over UConn. Some are. They are more likely to send them to a CCSU or an ECSU. It's difficult to get into UConn nowadays...and it used to be a backup school.
And what are you calling a "bargain?" At $31K for in-state, UConn IS a bargain, especially when compared to private degrees in CT and big publics in the region. UMass out-of-state is about $35K, and the education is essentially the same. UVM is like $40K. UNH, $34K. URI, $31K. And forget about sending a kid to the Alabama's, LSU's, or Wyoming's of the world. Privates in CT are super expensive, and UConn is a better education than all of them except for Yale, Trinity, Wesleyan, and Conn College.
I have always felt that although CT costs a little more (to be educated here, and to live here), we get what we pay for. I was raised in CT, and so was my wife. We both went to school in CT, and we will never leave - it's the best state IMO.

My point is Connecticut residents pay far too much for in state tuition for Uconn. Schools with better academic reputations charge far less for their in -state tuition. UNC Chapel Hill is about 10k in state for tuition. We pay high taxes and the tuition is slated to go up 25% in the next 4 years. We should demand cost controls. Graduating with a 100k debt from a State school is crazy.....

 

[navery12]

I never said you were complaining - not sure why you got defensive over that point. A college degree is worth what you put into it - if you spend $100K on an art history degree, you are getting robbed - a degree in comp sci and you are good to go. The fact that you have a pension (even though you complain about it) is still more than most could ever hope for in an ideal situation. Since you only work 10 months a year, it’s not valid to complain about only being paid for a job that you have 10 months out of the year. You don’t deserve to get paid for the summers because you are not working. Not sure where your gripe is, and regardless of the comparison between PA and CT, teachers still make a decent amount for the work they provide.

I'm not sure what teachers ever did to you but I promise they're good people and we need them, despite what you think

 

[XLCenterFan]

My point is Connecticut residents pay far too much for in state tuition for Uconn. Schools with better academic reputations charge far less for their in -state tuition. UNC Chapel Hill is about 10k in state for tuition. We pay high taxes and the tuition is slated to go up 25% in the next 4 years. We should demand cost controls. Graduating with a 100k debt from a State school is crazy.....

Last I checked, in-state tuition at UConn was like $13K. I mis-spoke/mis-typed in my above response, and I apologize for that. Got my numbers reversed. Perhaps that's where this confusion stems from. $31K is the out-of-state sticker price, and almost no one pays full for either. The school I went to had a crazy high sticker price, and basically zero people paid it. I surely didn't pay anywhere close to sticker price for my degree.

You only listed one school - UNC. I want to know how many state schools actually offer the expected value, for in-state, that a UNC or a UConn offer. I'm guessing not many. And it's all relative. A University of North Dakota degree costs less, but it's worth less (not to be confused with worthless). Would you say that $13K in-state is too expensive? I'd say that's a steal.