Jacobs on Ollie. We've all had more than a few bones to

[UConn Hoops1]

pick with Jeffie; but I have to say this is one of his better pieces; and I can't say that I disagree at all with the points he makes. A lot of us(including me) are anxious to see Kevin's contract extended; but having it done after he's been exposed to a variety of challenges makes sense. And, as the article mentions, Kevin wouldn't have it any other way.

The contract extension

GO HUSKIES!!! BEAT VERMONT!!!

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

He's right in that if you're going to go the provisional contract route, you can't extend it after one game, or else it invalidates the whole concept from the beginning and makes the AD look knee-jerky and inconclusive. I do agree that if his performance is where it should be, it should be extended before the year is out and before the spring recruiting season begins, not in April or May.

 

[upstater]

pick with Jeffie; but I have to say this is one of his better pieces; and I can't say that I disagree at all with the points he makes. A lot of us(including me) are anxious to see Kevin's contract extended; but having it done after he's been exposed to a variety of challenges makes sense. And, as the article mentions, Kevin wouldn't have it any other way.

The contract extension

GO HUSKIES!!! BEAT VERMONT!!!

At this point, I'm OK with it too. Now that XRM, Vonleh and the like are gone, it really doesn't matter. (NOTE: that doesn't mean his contract was to blame for that--it didn't help, but not to blame). As long as Facey signs, the net impact of the lack of contract on recruiting, from this point on, is minimal to nil. What's done is done.

 

[upstater]

Couldn't make it to the end of the article...

If each game is to be a referendum on Ollie, do you realize what an emotional, chaotic, knee-jerky ride it will be?
What happens if the Huskies drop one to, oh, Vermont or Stony Brook?

Uh....so...? Uh, so then, what point is he making here anyway? He first says, can Ollie win to secure his contract. Then he says "What if Ollie loses?" Then he says can you draw conclusions from one loss? Wha? Then why are you saying he is in the middle of an evaluation? Quite frankly, Manuel looks like a piker and an amateur who doesn't know his arse from his elbow in judging basketball coaches. He doesn't know what it takes. That's why he's a laughingstock in the national sports media. Either you're aware of how the guy approaches coaching or you're not. Wins and losses will tell you very little. No one knows how an assistant will react.

What happens when/if one of his guys does something stupid off the court? Do we suddenly condemn Ollie for not being able to control his players?

???

And, please, let's let the team get through one academic cycle. The classroom problems of the past have been documented from sea to shining sea. Let the fellas bring their report card to the coach and let him say, "Good job, and we're going to do just as well next semester."

Clearly, this buffoon has no idea what he's talking about. these kids have high APR scores for a reason. Nothing has changed.

 

[GemParty]

Speaking of Facey, any intel if he's signing this week. I know TS said he will Weds.

 

[Bill Sussman]

I'd agree and disagree with Jeff Jacobs. I completely understand where he is coming from - although he doesn't have a grasp on the APR and these current kids. That being said, any reasonable fan is not asking the contract to be locked up by yesterday. Its the winds/trends that are saying this should be locked up by end of year so that we can focus on recruiting.

 

[uconNYC]

I agree. We would look silly to give him an extension after 1 game. It should have been done before the season. Now we should just wait until the end of the season.

 

[jleves]

Here's my take from the 10 toes in thread that I was asked to delete:

As for the contract, I approach that a little more with my head than my heart. I can understand the decision for a one season contract - the guy had never coached a regular season minute at any level. If you want to lose your job as AD, you go on a whim and the good feelings of the fans and give him the long term contract. If you want to do your job correctly as AD, you don't over commit to a totally unproven commodity. Did it hurt recruiting? Maybe now it does. But nobody can say any of the kids that went other directions did so because Coach Ollie has a 1 season deal or if they went another direction because Coach Ollie had never coached a game before. Either argument can be made in a vacuum and that's what we have - no more information than speculation.

Now, while it's only one game, I can start swinging my head over to the idea of a longer term contract. But I really think you have to see a few more things first - or at least I do. Can they keep the hammer down when they are throttling a cupcake? Can they find the will to come back if they get down to a cupcake? Can they grind out a game when they don't have their A stuff? I see the game vs MSU in the similar light as when a star leading running back goes down in the first quarter and the backup comes in and rushes for 150 yards on pure emotion and adrenaline only to get stuffed the next few games because he really isn't that good. I need to see the energy, discipline and team work sustained for a few more games.

In the end, I more in favor of a long term contract (and if it's extended, it's go to be extended to something like 5 years - if you're going to give him a chance to build his program, you got to let him have the time to get his players and systems in place) than I was a week ago. If I see the same kind of thing for the next month, I will be all in favor of an extension during the December finals when he has a little down time.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

I like Jacobs' suggestion, if he's done well, extend it February 1, erase all doubt, get it out of the newspapers before the end of the season.

 

[ctchamps]

Here's my take from the 10 toes in thread that I was asked to delete:

As for the contract, I approach that a little more with my head than my heart. I can understand the decision for a one season contract - the guy had never coached a regular season minute at any level. If you want to lose your job as AD, you go on a whim and the good feelings of the fans and give him the long term contract. If you want to do your job correctly as AD, you don't over commit to a totally unproven commodity. Did it hurt recruiting? Maybe now it does. But nobody can say any of the kids that went other directions did so because Coach Ollie has a 1 season deal or if they went another direction because Coach Ollie had never coached a game before. Either argument can be made in a vacuum and that's what we have - no more information than speculation.

Now, while it's only one game, I can start swinging my head over to the idea of a longer term contract. But I really think you have to see a few more things first - or at least I do. Can they keep the hammer down when they are throttling a cupcake? Can they find the will to come back if they get down to a cupcake? Can they grind out a game when they don't have their A stuff? I see the game vs MSU in the similar light as when a star leading running back goes down in the first quarter and the backup comes in and rushes for 150 yards on pure emotion and adrenaline only to get stuffed the next few games because he really isn't that good. I need to see the energy, discipline and team work sustained for a few more games.

In the end, I more in favor of a long term contract (and if it's extended, it's go to be extended to something like 5 years - if you're going to give him a chance to build his program, you got to let him have the time to get his players and systems in place) than I was a week ago. If I see the same kind of thing for the next month, I will be all in favor of an extension during the December finals when he has a little down time.

Better place for this viewpoint! And I quoted you so it appears twice in one thread.

 

[TerryA88]

The doubts regarding Kevin Ollie being granted an interim coaching deal - three to five years might have merit. The fact that he's had no experience as a head coach, would also lean me towards a 'wait and see' perspective. I'd like to present two facts that can't be denied by Husky fans , and any others who may be on the outside looking in.

1) Calhoun Selection) You don't create a basketball program over the course of over two decades that you've put your blood and sweat into- effectively creating something major from nothing; and select ' boo-boo the fool ' for your replacement. selected his disciples, and Jim Calhoun selected his replacement. His name is Kevin Ollie. He's been in the NBA, where most of his recruits have aspirations to be. From day one he's emphasized the ' team' dynamic..i.e. no one individual is above the team. Which leads me to me second point..
2) 10 toes in) I've watched UConn play for over 20 years, and the hustle and effort displayed by the this group was phenomenal. Tyler Olander needs an abundance of kudos/props as does D.Daniels..they both worked hard; as the entire team did for coach Ollie. The point is, this group is a unit. Did the offense run flawlessly..no. Were there lay ups at he rim , and fast breaks on the defensive end that couldn't be swatted or better defended..yes. KO will coach the young men and talent he has to be the most that they can be. Yes, it was only one game. JC selects you after a 13 year NBA career, and 2 years under his wing, and some are questioning his credentials? Anyone with a minimal basketball I.Q, could see parts of the offense/ defense that can be improved. KO will coach corrections and this group will listen.

Once we go 5-0 we need to collectively consider what actions we will take to give Kevin Ollie a contract of at least 5 years...7 years being more appropriate. Even those on the outside are saying KO should get a long term deal. Those doubting have and will continue to see KO 'walk on water' in terms of the effort and hustle he gets out of this group...do we need to see him cross to the other side realize that he is the chosen one ?

 

[selles]

Better place for this viewpoint! And I quoted you so it appears twice in one thread.

Yup, and it's the adult viewpoint fleud. I'm 10 toes in for KO and if I had 20 toes, I'd be 20 toes in. Don't try to pretend I'm not because I don't sign on to your silly loyalty oath thread. But I'm also 10 toes in for WM and I think he's taken the right approach. If the team continues to play well and with the togetherness it showed the other night - and I fully believe it will - then the extension will come in January, after 1st semester grades come in. I saw plenty of WM on TV watching the game the other night, and that's not a guy who was looking for the team to fail so he could get rid of KO. He's simply taking the responsible approach for the program.

 

[8893]

Piece of crap.

 

[Letsgohuskies11]

Jacobs doesnt even address the biggest issue... recruiting. Part of the reason why people want ollie extended is because we are taking a big hit in the recruiting department with the uncertainty of the future.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Piece of crap.

Well that's an intelligent reaction.

Reading this board lately has become unbearably frustrating. I CAN NOT BELIEVE how foolish some of our fans are. Why does there have to be someone to be pissed at all the time?

Some of you have said that whining about the contract every single day and demanding an immediate extension every single day doesn't hurt. Could those people be any more clueless? We KNOW FOR A FACT that members of the media read this board. If you guys continue to whine about the contract being a problem and major story you will create a self-fulfilling prophecy. When people in the media see fans of the program whining about the contract and hating on the AD, they will assume that is the big story about UConn and they will, themselves, bring it up on TV and in the papers. THAT will have as much of a negative impact on recruits as the contract itself. It creates a CONSTANT dark cloud over the program. It has a subconcious impact on everyone that reads or hears it. Do any of you have a clue about the mental part of the game...of life?

And consider the message sent to the current players and recruits. It is OK to bitch and moan about your boss. Dissention is OK when you feel it is warranted. What if the players buy into that message and start complaining about playing time or how the coach is running the team? THANK GOD Ollie isn't falling into the trap some of you pinheads are setting. He is trying to stay positive and focused. THAT is how an athlete responds. Hopefully the players follow his lead and not the lead of the wannabe fans who have some sort of misguided vendetta.

The past is in the past and no amount of compaining about it can change it. The contract is what it is. We have all chimed in with our opinions about whether it was right or wrong. MOVE THE duck ON NOW!!! And as far as the extension goes, there is no way in hell it will happen after one game so why in god's name would you scream for it to happen? Do you realize how irrational and idiotic that looks? We can debate on how many games is reasonable for a decison to be made or what things need to be seen for it to happen or both. I can tell you what I think, given the situation for the program, the university and the state. I am going to guess that they are looking at the mid-point of the season as a reasonable point in time where they could rationally offer an extension. Why? Well, amazingly, Ollie did indeed show most of the things he needed to show with that first game. But we still need to see how the team responds to a tough loss, how well they respond to playing an inferior team and how much they improve as the season moves on. The last point is the one that takes the most time and games. First we need to establish a baseline for the start of the season. After the first 7 games or so, we should have a good idea where the team is. The next 7 games or so will show the direction they are headed in relative to the start.

Accept that the extension will NOT happen before all of the early signing period recruits have made their decisions and signed their LOIs. Whatever impact the contract situation had on them is done...over...in the past. If Ollie gets the extension mid-way, there will be little to no impact on the spring signing period recruits.

So, continuing to whine about the contract and scream for an extension will have no possible positive impact. IF I am right about the negative impact, you guys will only serve to feed the fire and keep that dark cloud hanging over the program.

 

[8893]

Well that's an intelligent reaction.

Reading this board lately has become unbearably frustrating. I CAN NOT BELIEVE how foolish some of our fans are. Why does there have to be someone to be pissed at all the time?

Some of you have said that whining about the contract every single day and demanding an immediate extension every single day doesn't hurt. Could those people be any more clueless? We KNOW FOR A FACT that members of the media read this board. If you guys continue to whine about the contract being a problem and major story you will create a self-fulfilling prophecy. When people in the media see fans of the program whining about the contract and hating on the AD, they will assume that is the big story about UConn and they will, themselves, bring it up on TV and in the papers. THAT will have as much of a negative impact on recruits as the contract itself. It creates a CONSTANT dark cloud over the program. It has a subconcious impact on everyone that reads or hears it. Do any of you have a clue about the mental part of the game...of life?

And consider the message sent to the current players and recruits. It is OK to bitch and moan about your boss. Dissention is OK when you feel it is warranted. What if the players buy into that message and start complaining about playing time or how the coach is running the team? THANK GOD Ollie isn't falling into the trap some of you pinheads are setting. He is trying to stay positive and focused. THAT is how an athlete responds. Hopefully the players follow his lead and not the lead of the wannabe fans who have some sort of misguided vendetta.

The past is in the past and no amount of compaining about it can change it. The contract is what it is. We have all chimed in with our opinions about whether it was right or wrong. MOVE THE duck ON NOW!!! And as far as the extension goes, there is no way in hell it will happen after one game so why in god's name would you scream for it to happen? Do you realize how irrational and idiotic that looks? We can debate on how many games is reasonable for a decison to be made or what things need to be seen for it to happen or both. I can tell you what I think, given the situation for the program, the university and the state. I am going to guess that they are looking at the mid-point of the season as a reasonable point in time where they could rationally offer an extension. Why? Well, amazingly, Ollie did indeed show most of the things he needed to show with that first game. But we still need to see how the team responds to a tough loss, how well they respond to playing an inferior team and how much they improve as the season moves on. The last point is the one that takes the most time and games. First we need to establish a baseline for the start of the season. After the first 7 games or so, we should have a good idea where the team is. The next 7 games or so will show the direction they are headed in relative to the start.

Accept that the extension will NOT happen before all of the early signing period recruits have made their decisions and signed their LOIs. Whatever impact the contract situation had on them is done...over...in the past. If Ollie gets the extension mid-way, there will be little to no impact on the spring signing period recruits.

So, continuing to whine about the contract and scream for an extension will have no possible positive impact. IF I am right about the negative impact, you guys will only serve to feed the fire and keep that dark cloud hanging over the program.

Another piece of crap.

Just like Jacobs, spoken like someone who has never successfully managed or been managed. And who apparently knows nothing about running a major sports program. I saw this as a poor decision from day one, but that belief has been reinforced continually both by the comments we've seen from every professional, player and coach who has spoken on the issue, as well as from my own friends in the business. So excuse me if I don't defer to Jeff Jacobs. What are his credentials again?

I kept my initial comments brief and to the point, but you restating yours at length all the time only makes me want to go into detail, again, about how misguided and poorly thought out this was from the start. I ain't moving on anywhere as long as you keep spewing your crap.

How many ADs have you seen on TV while watching other CBB games? Did you see the MSU AD at the game? I must have missed him while focusing on the stories of Izzo in the C-130 and his team visiting with the troops. Our story? Our AD's power play. Wow, that's riveting. Can't wait to hear how many kids were inspired by that, and his goofy presence waiting for the award ceremony. How often have you seen the AD become the story? I didn't make the story, Manuel did. Again, if talk of it is poison, look no further than the man with the large head and the suit and shirt collar that are two sizes too small. He made the story. And, oh, what dividends it will pay when the world sees that we have a strong AD! Strong enough to cripple the greatest building job in CBB history by putting his insecurity and ego above what is best for the school. That'll show 'em!

There are three possibilities with Interim Coach Ollie: (1) He does great; (2) he sucks; (3) somewhere in between. Manuel's choice not to give him a contract shows that Manuel was betting on #2. What a way to lead! How inspirational! I want to go to that school!

I've said it time and again, but it comes down to how you treat people. Manuel could have more than adequately protected against the possibility of failure by offering a two-season deal with a negotiated buy-out in case things go south. He could have used this entire season to evaluate Ollie and then decided to extend him further beyond that. But the way he did it merely delayed the decision hoping that it would be made for him. If, as it now appears to almost everyone else, it is a no-brainer to extend him, we are now crippled further by the "Oh, but we'll look so foolish if we extend him after one game" mentality. Well, I agree with that--but that's exactly the problem created by this stupid arrangement. It only made sense if Manuel didn't believe in Ollie, and I don't think anyone involved is going to be forgetting that any time soon.

Sorry if I don't buy the flawed and insulting premise that Ollie wouldn't have it any other way. That is a gross misread. And exactly what I've come to expect from the likes of Jacobs and you.

 

[ctchamps]

Yup, and it's the adult viewpoint fleud. I'm 10 toes in for KO and if I had 20 toes, I'd be 20 toes in. Don't try to pretend I'm not because I don't sign on to your silly loyalty oath thread. But I'm also 10 toes in for WM and I think he's taken the right approach. If the team continues to play well and with the togetherness it showed the other night - and I fully believe it will - then the extension will come in January, after 1st semester grades come in. I saw plenty of WM on TV watching the game the other night, and that's not a guy who was looking for the team to fail so he could get rid of KO. He's simply taking the responsible approach for the program.

The ten toes thread isn't about viewpoints for or against WM and the handling of the KO contract. The only thing it's about is support for KO. It's about us, the Boneyarder fans, and how we feel about KO. It doesn't care about which side people are taking regarding the issue of the contract.

That's why I asked jleves to move his post. His post was an opinion about the handling of the contract as opposed to an endorsement of KO. I understand the various points of views regarding the issue. There are three basic viewpoints, four if you count freescooters viewpoint. Each of us are entitled to our viewpoint.

My thread is only silly if someone feels its silly which is different than being silly. I think its fun. I think it makes us go out on the limb with our excitement. There is no difference in proclaiming ones support for KO no matter what happens versus proclaiming ones support for the UConn bb team no matter what happens. I still wear my husky gear after events of last season. We all support the team regardless of our differences over the various issues we discuss about players and games.

I hope you change your mind and join us on that thread! The only danger is putting yourself on a limb to be ridiculed by others in cyberspace, kind of the way you chose to ridicule me. So what does that cost us? It costs us nothing unless we choose to let it bother us. I can't speak for the merry band that has followed me, but scr*w the conventions of society when having innocent fun and excitement is frowned upon because we need to be logical 24/7.

 

[caw]

I don't agree with Manuel's decision to give KO a seven month contract at all, I also don't think he should have gotten a 5+ year deal. I would have been happy with a 2-3 season deal and really thought 2 was a minimum that should have been offered. Whether it was the deciding factor in the recruitment of players isn't the issue, the fact it hurt recruiting at all is.

I am also against extending him right this second. I agree with Jacobs that extending KO now makes Manuel look like a bigger buffoon.

It will be interesting to see when Manuel extends KO (assuming he does) and for how long. I would think Jan/Feb makes the most sense to extend, if he does, and for 3-5 years.

 

[Huskymaniac]

Another piece of crap.

And I feel the same way about what you post on the subject so I guess we agree to disagree.

Just like Jacobs, spoken like someone who has never successfully managed or been managed. And who apparently knows nothing about running a major sports program. I saw this as a poor decision from day one, but that belief has been reinforced continually both by the comments we've seen from every professional, player and coach who has spoken on the issue, as well as from my own friends in the business. So excuse me if I don't defer to Jeff Jacobs. What are his credentials again?

What major sports program have you managed? And of the people you have spoken to, how many of them were ever in this exact same situation with regards to when and how Calhoun retired? I don't care what Jacobs says, I am telling what I know to be true of human nature. And, yes, I have managed people and coached sports. Not on this level, I admit, but I have also spoken to lots of people on the subject of the mental part of the game and I am telling you what has been proven to be human nature.

How many ADs have you seen on TV while watching other CBB games? Did you see the MSU AD at the game? I must have missed him while focusing on the stories of Izzo in the C-130 and his team visiting with the troops. Our story? Our AD's power play. Wow, that's riveting. Can't wait to hear how many kids were inspired by that, and his goofy presence waiting for the award ceremony. How often have you seen the AD become the story? I didn't make the story, Manuel did. Again, if talk of it is poison, look no further than the man with the large head and the suit and shirt collar that are two sizes too small. He made the story. And, oh, what dividends it will pay when the world sees that we have a strong AD! Strong enough to cripple the greatest building job in CBB history by putting his insecurity and ego above what is best for the school. That'll show 'em!

I suppose you can't see how hyperbolic you are being, right? Exaggerate much? I don't care what Manuel thinks about himself or what other people think about him. Did he make a bad decision? Perhaps but not everyone agrees that he did and that SHOULD tell you something. You saying it doesn't make it so. But my point isn't about what the contract should have been. My point is about what Manuel, Ollie and the fans do NOW. You and those like you are a poison right now, period. Even if you are right about what the contract should have been, it is done...in the past...and you are being counterproductive right now. And why? To satisfy your own ego? Why else would you insist on fighting a battle in the past unless you are trying to continually prove you were "right" by gaining more and more support for what you said IN THE PAST.

There are three possibilities with Interim Coach Ollie: (1) He does great; (2) he sucks; (3) somewhere in between. Manuel's choice not to give him a contract shows that Manuel was betting on #2. What a way to lead! How inspirational! I want to go to that school!

To assume you know what Manuel was "betting on" shows just how irrational you are on this subject. You have NO CLUE what he was thinking or hoping for.

I've said it time and again, but it comes down to how you treat people. Manuel could have more than adequately protected against the possibility of failure by offering a two-season deal with a negotiated buy-out in case things go south. He could have used this entire season to evaluate Ollie and then decided to extend him further beyond that. But the way he did it merely delayed the decision hoping that it would be made for him. If, as it now appears to almost everyone else, it is a no-brainer to extend him, we are now crippled further by the "Oh, but we'll look so foolish if we extend him after one game" mentality. Well, I agree with that--but that's exactly the problem created by this stupid arrangement. It only made sense if Manuel didn't believe in Ollie, and I don't think anyone involved is going to be forgetting that any time soon.

Again, more irrational and hyperbolic statements. We are "crippled"? Really?!?! Step back from the edge of the cliff. And as far as the original contract is concerned, since you continue to "fight the civil war", how do you know that Manuel wasn't prohibited from offering a contract with buy outs from Herbst or the board of directors? The state and university aren't exactly in great fiscal times. You have no idea why Manuel did what he did so you make convenient assumptions to support your vendetta. OK, fine. But, AGAIN, that ship has sailed. Accept it and decide what to do next. As fans, continuing to complain about the contract which can't be changed since it is IN THE PAST and screaming for an extension that won't come now only serves to drive dissention into the program. You continue to project to the outside world that this is a major story and that is why they continue to report it as such. NO GOOD CAN COME OF THAT. Retreat, back off, enjoy the team and then come back when it makes sense (mid-way) and start pushing for the extension. BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, do it in a positive way versus an antagonistic way. If you can't see the value in that, I hope that YOU don't manage people.

Sorry if I don't buy the flawed and insulting premise that Ollie wouldn't have it any other way. That is a gross misread. And exactly what I've come to expect from the likes of Jacobs and you.

I never said that and Jacobs doesn't speak for me. Sorry if that doesn't fit into the convenient alternate reality you have created for yourself. All I ever said was that Ollie was handling this perfectly.

 

[8893]

To recap, it appears that it is now widely accepted that:

• The interim contract probably was a bad decision by Manuel.
• The interim contract most likely hurt recruiting, and certainly didn't help.
• Nonetheless, we must stick with the interim contract at least a little while longer so that our AD doesn't look even more foolish than he already does.
• I have power over the media to create stories and coverage that would not exist otherwise.

Got it.

And, you know, I'm actually warming to the interim contract. In fact, on reflection and with the help of Squidward's management wisdom, I think seven months was too generous. Since we know that Ollie excelled under the constant pressure of ten-day contracts, I think Manuel should have made it a game-to-game contract instead. It only stands to reason that if Ollie is performing this well with a seven-month contract, he would do even better with a shorter one. Nothing like the constant threat of firing to motivate someone.

Brilliant.

 

[caw]

To recap, it appears that it is now widely accepted that:

• The interim contract probably was a bad decision by Manuel.
• The interim contract most likely hurt recruiting, and certainly didn't help.
• Nonetheless, we must stick with the interim contract at least a little while longer so that our AD doesn't look even more foolish than he already does.
• I have power over the media to create stories and coverage that would not exist otherwise.

Got it.


And, you know, I'm actually warming to the interim contract. In fact, on reflection and with the help of Squidward's management wisdom, I think seven months was too generous. Since we know that Ollie excelled under the constant pressure of ten-day contracts, I think Manuel should have made it a game-to-game contract instead. It only stands to reason that if Ollie is performing this well with a seven-month contract, he would do even better with a shorter one. Nothing like the constant threat of firing to motivate someone.

Brilliant.

All excellent points, I disagree about the third bullet. It's not solely about Manuel (though a large part of it is) but also because Manuel represents the university and it can't appear that the school makes knee-jerk reactions about something this high profile. That and I want Ollie to get a nice long term, well paying contract.