Izzo on rule changes and freedom of movement

[80shusky]

Amen!

 

[James]

I think the officials are getting it right, its just that the majority of college players are simply not good enough to adhere to these rule changes. most college kids don't know how to defend the post without using both their hands, and guards often impede the progress of ball handlers by hand checking. You can't follow the nba roadmap when you have less skilled/athletic players.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I don't care for annual rule changes either, but Izzo's issues are his failures to recruit and teach a guard who can control a game. He's always trying to run offense through big slow stiffs.

 

[CL82]

Yeah, I hear you James, and yet the Big East had many great years being a physical league. It may not be what Naismith envisioned but I like a physical game.

 

[CardiacAndre7]

Let the kids play, good for Izzo. tired of seeing a would call every time you touch someone in the post. Its a contact sport.

 

[Son of Robert]

Good refs will find a balance

 

[SWHuskyFan]

I'm all for physical post play. Physical play on the perimeter and chucks on every cutter is ruining the game. It's why we have the 55-50 snooze fests. The NBA fixed this years ago and college has lagged behind.

 

[King Husky]

I may be in the minority here, but nothing was ever wrong with college basketball in the first place. They change the rules because they say there needs to be more offense and more scoring, but is it really that exciting when a bucket is scored on 1 out of every 2 possessions? The appeal of college basketball to me is the fact that it is physical and baskets are at a premium. Remember that UConn vs. Cincy game last year? Game's can't be anymore exciting than that. And it is because the quality defense of both teams keeping the game close. The NBA has become FULL of blowouts, due the the high rates of scoring and 3-pointers... it's just not exciting IMO.

 

[King Husky]

I'm all for physical post play. Physical play on the perimeter and chucks on every cutter is ruining the game. It's why we have the 55-50 snooze fests. The NBA fixed this years ago and college has lagged behind.

I do agree with the hand check call needing to be enforced. This should have always been the case. But good defensive players can find ways to legally impede a player's movement, getting in their way and making it difficult for them, and this physicality is essential to the game.

 

[FriarJ]

They don't listen to him unfortunately. This was after a big win for MSU last year.
Tom Izzo sounds off on new rules after Michigan State's win over Providence

 

[James]

I do agree with the hand check call needing to be enforced. This should have always been the case. But good defensive players can find ways to legally impede a player's movement, getting in their way and making it difficult for them, and this physicality is essential to the game.

Good man defense has nothing to do with impeding progress, college kids are simply not disciplined enough to execute this way. It's a problem on ball, 0ff ball , and on post play. Lemme guess, you think they don't play defense in the NBA huh?

 

[UConnStats]

I don't care for annual rule changes either, but Izzo's issues are his failures to recruit and teach a guard who can control a game. He's always trying to run offense through big slow stiffs.

I think that's a bit unfair. He's had some great guards too, and even though he's left without a NC frequently, he consistently gets very deep into the tournament. There's some luck factor to that. He's an incredible coach, his complaining aside.

 

[mauconnfan]

Refs suck these days, they have no on court play themselves as they just read from books on how to make calls. He's right but he's also whining, typical Izzo. Nothing will change, the refs aren't that good and aren't capable of making calls in any consistent manner, they just don't understand the game enough.

 

[BUConn10]

Yeah, I hear you James, and yet the Big East had many great years being a physical league. It may not be what Naismith envisioned but I like a physical game.

I like to watch guys bang down low

 

[FriarJ]

For whatever reason I believe that refs anticipate contact/calls more in the college game than in the pro's. Last year in particular with emphasis on the defenders hands it seemed like calls were being made before contact just by initiation of arm movement by a defender. This year seems no better, not sure what your guys exhibition was like but ours was not any good and I'm reading where the secret scrimmages have just been horrible from a foul perspective.

 

[James]

They fixed style of play in the NBA, sometime between 2013-2015, NCAA is severely lagging behind. I hate to say it but both our recent title runs have been marred by aesthetically displeasing basketball. Not being able to score =/= good defense.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I think that's a bit unfair. He's had some great guards too, and even though he's left without a NC frequently, he consistently gets very deep into the tournament. There's some luck factor to that. He's an incredible coach, his complaining aside.

He's put a few average guards into the NBA. Izzo doesn't put good guards into the NBA because he doesn't draw good guard talent out of high school. He doesn't draw good guard talent because of his style of play. None of the high profile guards want to play in Izzo's system.

You ever notice that UCONN is looking at high 4 or 5 star PG every year. We are currently playing in the doldrums of the AAC and we are still getting those guys. That's not coincidence. Michigan State is pretty much the premier basketball school in the big ten and they haven't landed a really good guard recruit that carried them to a championship or done much in the NBA in forever.

 

[CL82]

I like to watch guys bang down low

Uh, I think that was oversharing.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Amen!

I couldn't agree with him more. Forget about the rules for a moment. The simple idea of adding new rules each year is insane.
-Freshman Year "this" was legal.
-Sophomore Year "this is not legal, but not always called.
-Junior Year not only is it called, but it is a "point of emphasis". So every refs who wants to look good to the conference bosses calls it before it even happens.
-Senior year "this" is ok again, because we went too far last year.

How the heck are players supposed to develop that way? Hand check, no hand check, hand check with two hands in the post as long as arm aren't extended, but no hand checking at all beyond the paint.

How do they even truly evaluate these rule changes? Some last for a season. Some last for several seasons, but other rules that directly impact that rule have changed. It is nonsensical.

 

[King Husky]

Good man defense has nothing to do with impeding progress, college kids are simply not disciplined enough to execute this way. It's a problem on ball, 0ff ball , and on post play. Lemme guess, you think they don't play defense in the NBA huh?

Good defensive coaches teach their players to NEVER let a cutter cross your face into the lane. That is a golden rule. You legally stand your ground (in his path) and force him to take a more indirect route, behind you. If they use their hands or don't have the right of established position, sure, the refs should call fouls 100% of the time.

I think they play very good defense in the NBA (with the exception of some lazy mistakes throughout the long regular season). The offense there is just so much better proportional to college offense vs. defense. Which is why trying to make college ball too similar to the NBA is a slippery slope.

 

[James]

@King Husky I agree trying to make it too similar to the NBA isn't feasible, there just isn't enough talent in the NCAA to do that. perhaps just making it a wwf rock fight would be better, idk. Same point as @CL82 .

As far as your observation on cutting, I think defenders should just stay attached and be ready to deny passes for backdoors or off curls, you shouldn't be able to whack a guy after he makes a good iverson/backdoor/whatever cut. I don't even think NCAA players are really good enough for "defense of cutters" to be an issue, they just need to learn to keep two hands off ball handlers IMO. What happens is a player is beat off the bounce and to recover the defender does an offensive lineman move to impede progress with two hands, it happens too often.

 

[champs99and04]

Izzo complaining about this is like Peyton Manning complaining about illegal contact after the 2003 AFC championship game. Purely self-serving. What's next? Pitino wants to let more hand-checking go on the perimeter?

It doesn't make him wrong, though I'm not so sure he's right, either. One disagreement I have with @James is that the NBA cleaned up hand-checking well before 2013, my recollection is that it was those mid-2000's Pistons/Spurs teams that forced the change.

I actually think the college game is better now than it was in 2013 when this was at its worst. It is never going to be the NBA for obvious reasons, nor will it be what it was before the surge in early entrants, but the last couple title games have been played at an extremely high level compared to the ones we were involved in. Myself, I tend to enjoy the 65-62 slug-fests more than most, but the thing about college basketball is that there are enough teams to watch the type of game you want. If you like watching Virginia-Louisville, watch that. If you like Notre Dame-UNC, watch that.

 

[James]

@champs99and04 perhaps "handchecking" specifically, but you can't argue the style of play is much different from say the 2009 lakers and the 2014 Spurs, right? Maybe college is just taking much longer, which makes sense since there are like 8 times the amount of hoopers in d1 than the NBA.

At the end of the day it's not going to be the same as the pros so we all are in agreement, I just don't know how they can increase scoring without increasing ft attempts at the moment . Edit: I've always been a proponent of adopting all the NBA rules, specifically the 3 in the key , which would dispose of many junk defenses.

 

[UConn990411]

The game had become borderline unwatchable, so the rule changes were a needed first step to fixing it.

The problem is that the NCAA is littered with incompetent officials, but even so, things appear to be trending in the right direction.

 

[champs99and04]

@champs99and04 perhaps "handchecking" specifically, but you can't argue the style of play is much different from say the 2009 lakers and the 2014 Spurs, right? Maybe college is just taking much longer, which makes sense since there are like 8 times the amount of hoopers in d1 than the NBA.

At the end of the day it's not going to be the same as the pros so we all are in agreement, I just don't know how they can increase scoring without increasing ft attempts at the moment . Edit: I've always been a proponent of adopting all the NBA rules, specifically the 3 in the key , which would dispose of many junk defenses.

'09 Lakers definitely much different than modern teams, the '14 Spurs were actually the first (unless you want to argue the seven seconds or less Suns were) to really win big with the current model of pace & space that's pretty much a staple of contemporary NBA ideology. So I'd disagree on that one - we all remember them eviscerating Miami's blitzing schemes in the '14 finals and that seemed to serve as the foundation for what Golden State ultimately built w/ Green operating as a dual threat in the middle of the floor flanked by shooters.

But to the extent that the game is different now than it was back at the Kobe/Odom/Gasol apex is more because of evolution than rule changes, IMO. I'm pretty sure the amount of three point shots that have been taken will reflect that.