it's time | Page 4 | The Boneyard

it's time

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Excalibur said:
I'm talking about timing. It seems that you and others want to have him leave now and try to find a legitimate coach in late April, which only increases uncertainty at the end of the recruiting year and probably gets us a less qualified in-game coach.
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You misunderstood me - I was agreeing with you. I want Calhoun to stay as long as possible - 5 more years would be great. If he does decide to retire I hope he gives everyone as much time as possible to find a top quality coach. I also think Ollie would not be a bad choice from the recruiting side.
 
I agree it is probably a little late in the year to replace him now, but not impossibly so (see VaTech). I want him to quietly let manuel know that he will step down at the end of 2013 so manuel can begin to quietly contact other coaches to guage their interest and ideally line up the replacement starting at the end of next season. At that point we can announce Calhoun's retirement, and that the new basketball training center will be known as the Calhoun Center. And starting on the first Tuesday in april Shaka Smart can begin his career as UCONN Head Basketball Coach.

I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Calhoun tried to force the choice of Ollie as his replacement by postponing his retirement announcement until July or August or even September when finding a replacement is really impossible. I really htink that picking his own replacement has become a poiint of pride with him, and we all know Calhoun doesn't give in on that kind of thing.
 
freescooter said:
I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Calhoun tried to force the choice of Ollie as his replacement by postponing his retirement announcement until July or August or even September when finding a replacement is really impossible. I really htink that picking his own replacement has become a poiint of pride with him, and we all know Calhoun doesn't give in on that kind of thing.
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Well Warde Manuel is the man who gets to make that decision, no matter how hard Calhoun tries. If he waits until September and then retires, Ollie will probably get the Interim tag for this year with no promises beyond that. It will also undoubtedly make Manuel angry with Calhoun, which could ultimately be worse for Ollie in the long run.
 
freescooter said:
I agree it is probably a little late in the year to replace him now, but not impossibly so (see VaTech). I want him to quietly let manuel know that he will step down at the end of 2013 so manuel can begin to quietly contact other coaches to guage their interest and ideally line up the replacement starting at the end of next season. At that point we can announce Calhoun's retirement, and that the new basketball training center will be known as the Calhoun Center. And starting on the first Tuesday in april Shaka Smart can begin his career as UCONN Head Basketball Coach.

I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Calhoun tried to force the choice of Ollie as his replacement by postponing his retirement announcement until July or August or even September when finding a replacement is really impossible. I really htink that picking his own replacement has become a poiint of pride with him, and we all know Calhoun doesn't give in on that kind of thing.
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Thing is, unless Blaney retires at the same time, the school would likely have Blaney as the head coach (assuming all the stuff you wrote) that year. Not saying that's what I would do, but...
 
HuskyBballFan said:
Well Warde Manuel is the man who gets to make that decision, no matter how hard Calhoun tries. If he waits until September and then retires, Ollie will probably get the Interim tag for this year with no promises beyond that. It will also undoubtedly make Manuel angry with Calhoun, which could ultimately be worse for Ollie in the long run.
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You know what would make Warde Manuel really angry? An angry President. You know what would make a President angry? Angry boosters, alumni and pols. You know what would make boosters, alumni and pols angry? Yep, neither do I.
 
freescooter said:
I agree it is probably a little late in the year to replace him now, but not impossibly so (see VaTech). I want him to quietly let manuel know that he will step down at the end of 2013 so manuel can begin to quietly contact other coaches to guage their interest and ideally line up the replacement starting at the end of next season. At that point we can announce Calhoun's retirement, and that the new basketball training center will be known as the Calhoun Center. And starting on the first Tuesday in april Shaka Smart can begin his career as UCONN Head Basketball Coach.

I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Calhoun tried to force the choice of Ollie as his replacement by postponing his retirement announcement until July or August or even September when finding a replacement is really impossible. I really htink that picking his own replacement has become a poiint of pride with him, and we all know Calhoun doesn't give in on that kind of thing.
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What is so great about Shaka Smart?
 
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freescooter said:
I hate to say it, but I wouldn't be shocked if Calhoun tried to force the choice of Ollie as his replacement by postponing his retirement announcement until July or August or even September when finding a replacement is really impossible. I really think that picking his own replacement has become a point of pride with him, and we all know Calhoun doesn't give in on that kind of thing.
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I don't disagree with this. And I also agree that when it happens, be it at the end of this season or next, advance notice to the AD is critical.
 
You could literally change the date on this post to 4/25/10 and it would make just as much sense. I feel like people are too put off by the number 70. With the back surgery behind him, Calhoun's a healthy guy. Who says he couldn't coach until he was 75 if he wanted to? He clearly loves coaching, and he clearly loves the kids, that's why he hasn't retired yet. If Calhoun was 80, we could be having this discussion. But 70 is the new 60, right? My grandfather's 74 and he's about as active as anybody I know. Health granted, that fire in Calhoun's stomach won't be going away anytime soon.

Calhoun might retire now, but I doubt it. The guy has never met an obstacle he didn't want to challenge. He's not reading the Boneyard every day, but he's sees the usual knuckleheads writing the program off, the forecasters predicting mediocrity for years to come. He's not going to coach forever, but he's going to leave the program in a stable place.

DJ, if the last few months have taught you anything, it's that very few recruits plan on attending a single University for four years nowadays. If Calhoun walks into a recruits living room, shows them the trophies, shows them the famous wall or whatever it's called, and sells them on making a run in 2012 or 2013, why would they say no? Very few recruits these days go on tours thinking "Man, I'm going to want to play for a coach who will develop me over the course of four years". Nope. Recruits these days want immediate satisfaction. Recruiting this year might be difficult due to the postseason ban, but who says Calhoun can't talk a 2014 recruit into playing for him for a year, making a run, and entering the draft? How is that different from what Drummond just did?

Believe it or not, the current roster is not far away from contending. Shabazz, Calhoun, Boatright, and Evans make up one of the best backcourts in the country. Daniels has the potential to turn himself into a classic UConn wing if he develops his body. Giffey's going to be a three year player who knows the ins and outs of the league and won't have to be looking over his shoulder all the time. Olander's going to be a junior, he should be serviceable. Next summer, I see no reason we won't be sitting here discussing a 2014 National Championship run. Calhoun's on the two year plan right now: Lean on his backcourt next season, surprise some people, sit there on selection sunday and mock everybody they beat, add a big man or two to an already strong supporting cast, and then win his fourth title on his way out. You can get on board with that plan now or get the *k out.
 
upstater said:
How is the current situation any different than last year when he landed Daniels, Drummond, etc?
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Drummond was always going to UConn, if he was going to college, as assuredly as Skylar Diggins was going to Notre Dame to play women's basketball. Daniels has a lot to prove. I have no idea what kind of player he will eventually be. He's certainly not a top-ten recruit. In fact, I don't consider him a Calhoun-type player. And I like the moxie of Boatright, but it's too early to tell if he was a top-50 recruit or a top-150 recruit upon entry into Uconn.
 
i like the optimism champs.......unfortunately, the way i see it, i dont get the 2010 comparrison one bit. first, i dont think its fair to speculate about coach's health or talk about it, but i really dont see him coaching beyond this contract. second, take an unbiased, unemotional look at where we currently stand....our frontcourt hinges on a hope and prayer we land hayes and bradley comes back....does that not sound dire to you? atleast, i can agree on how dynamic our backcourt will be. cant wait to see bazz, boat, and calhoun light it up!!!! maybe we can go back to the full court press. i have been waiting years for that!
 
upstater said:
?? And Emeka was a spring signee and so many of our star players were similar. Heck, Kemba was very much like Boatright, an afterthought. You can't dign Calhoun for any of this.
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You make a good point. Calhoun has been able to cobble together good teams, by zeroing in on a good player early, by getting a player late that was not as recognized or established as his peers, etc.--many times after swinging and missing against major programs for higher ranked recruits. But it remains to be seen how deep or enduring the stigma of the APR/tournaments ban will be, or what the effects of Calhoun's health uncertainty or the lack of clear succession will be.
 
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djct1999 said:
i like the optimism champs.......unfortunately, the way i see it, i dont get the 2010 comparrison one bit. first, i dont think its fair to speculate about coach's health or talk about it, but i really dont see him coaching beyond this contract. second, take an unbiased, unemotional look at where we currently stand....our frontcourt hinges on a hope and prayer we land hayes and bradley comes back....does that not sound dire to you? atleast, i can agree on how dynamic our backcourt will be. cant wait to see bazz, boat, and calhoun light it up!!!! maybe we can go back to the full court press. i have been waiting years for that!
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I won't sugar coat the fact that the frontcourt isn't exactly stellar. Losing Roscoe Smith is a big blow. But then again, we don't need a dominant center, we just need somebody who can protect the rim, throw down alley-oops, set good screens, and guard the pick and roll well enough. I think Hayes could be that guy, and I think it would be easy for Calhoun to walk into center x's living room next summer and say "Look, we've got three exceptional guards returning, two solid wings, and a four man who loves to pass and will compliment you perfectly. If you sign on, the frontcourt will be yours, you'll be the enforcer, get all the attention, and you can leave for the draft after the season".

I agree 100% on the idea of the full court press. I'm not going to lie, the front court is really thin. Without a true center, we'll probably get killed on the glass and give up a higher shooter percentage than usual. But with two quick guards, we can compensate for our weaknesses by turning teams over and creating easy opportunites.
 
AJC88 said:
A lot of college coaches would beg to differ.
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In much the same way they were begging Drummond to go to their school
 
Connrack said:
Drummond was always going to UConn, if he was going to college, as assuredly as Skylar Diggins was going to Notre Dame to play women's basketball. Daniels has a lot to prove. I have no idea what kind of player he will eventually be. He's certainly not a top-ten recruit. In fact, I don't consider him a Calhoun-type player. And I like the moxie of Boatright, but it's too early to tell if he was a top-50 recruit or a top-150 recruit upon entry into Uconn.
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So much fail in this post. First, judging recruits after they arrive and play is a fair way to assess someones overall recruiting ability over time, but it's a terrible way to analyze this situation. The only relevant factor was that we were able to land recruits that other top programs wanted.

You mentioned that Daniels wasn't a "Top 10 recruit", but how many "top 10" guys have we gotten, ever? You could count them on one hand. Scout, the more reliable service for hoops, had him as the #8 player at his position and he had an impressive offer list.
 
Connrack said:
Drummond was always going to UConn, if he was going to college, as assuredly as Skylar Diggins was going to Notre Dame to play women's basketball. Daniels has a lot to prove. I have no idea what kind of player he will eventually be. He's certainly not a top-ten recruit. In fact, I don't consider him a Calhoun-type player. And I like the moxie of Boatright, but it's too early to tell if he was a top-50 recruit or a top-150 recruit upon entry into Uconn.
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Daniels and Boatright were top recruits. End of story. Daniels was top 10 ranked and had offers from top schools.
 
upstater said:
Daniels and Boatright were top recruits. End of story. Daniels was top 10 ranked and had offers from top schools.
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so are you saying that we should expect and wait for a top rated pg to decommit from another school, for a second top 10 kid to come out of nowhere and commit without ever stepping foot on campus and the top ranked center to decide in august he wants to play in storrs? yeah, that seems like a good template for sustained recruiting success. 2011, from the run in march carried through to the 3 late signees was an improbable but simply amazing 6 months that will most likely never be replicated. it is not a credible example on how calhoun and the staff will get us out of this situation.
 
djct1999 said:
so are you saying that we should expect and wait for a top rated pg to decommit from another school, for a second top 10 kid to come out of nowhere and commit without ever stepping foot on campus and the top ranked center to decide in august he wants to play in storrs? yeah, that seems like a good template for sustained recruiting success. 2011, from the run in march carried through to the 3 late signees was an improbable but simply amazing 6 months that will most likely never be replicated. it is not a credible example on how calhoun and the staff will get us out of this situation.
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Again, you're correct in that the 2011 class came together in the most unorthodox of ways. But you don't seem to want to admit that guys like Jeremy Lamb, Roscoe Smith, Shabazz Napier, Niels Giffey, Tyler Olander, and Omar Calhoun also committed to Uconn in times when many thought the program was done.
 
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djct1999 said:
so are you saying that we should expect and wait for a top rated pg to decommit from another school, for a second top 10 kid to come out of nowhere and commit without ever stepping foot on campus and the top ranked center to decide in august he wants to play in storrs? yeah, that seems like a good template for sustained recruiting success. 2011, from the run in march carried through to the 3 late signees was an improbable but simply amazing 6 months that will most likely never be replicated. it is not a credible example on how calhoun and the staff will get us out of this situation.
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So are you saying...... [INSERT PHONY IDEAS SO I CAN COMPLETE MY STRAWMAN ARGUMENT]?
 
HuskyBballFan said:
Again, you're correct in that the 2011 class came together in the most unorthodox of ways. But you don't seem to want to admit that guys like Jeremy Lamb, Roscoe Smith, Shabazz Napier, Niels Giffey, Tyler Olander, and Omar Calhoun also committed to Uconn in times when many thought the program was done.
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i understand that uncertainty and Calhoun's status has come into play in the past, but i dont think that the two situations are that similiar. to me, this is an entirely different animal with a known tournament ban, turmoil within/transfers out, and the believe that after this contract, coach is indeed finished with no clear indication on who will coach next. besides, on your list, werent only roscoe smith and omar calhoun top 50 rated? most of the other guys, uconn was the best school offering. that in itself has worked well in the past, but i think more than ever we need cant miss, impact recruits. my only point, is i strongly believe that under our current situation without any clarity, it will be had to land that impact type recruit. just an opinion, but i do hope i am wrong.
 
I have to say that the combination of things, particualrly the NCAA APR stuff puts UCONN in a very difficult position. Combine that with Calhoun's contract coming up in 2 years, and I just think it is time to make a change. Under any circumstance there is going to be a period of uncertainty in a transition. Why not just bite the bullet and get on with it in a time when nobody really has high expectations anyway. You want to wait until after 2013, fine. That won't really change anything. next season is going to be a washout. 2014 might be tricky, too. Might just as well start off that year with a totally new slate including a new head men's basketball coach rather than suffer through the recruiting issues and everything else.
 
djct1999 said:
i understand that uncertainty and Calhoun's status has come into play in the past, but i dont think that the two situations are that similiar. to me, this is an entirely different animal with a known tournament ban, turmoil within/transfers out, and the believe that after this contract, coach is indeed finished with no clear indication on who will coach next. besides, on your list, werent only roscoe smith and omar calhoun top 50 rated? most of the other guys, uconn was the best school offering. that in itself has worked well in the past, but i think more than ever we need cant miss, impact recruits. my only point, is i strongly believe that under our current situation without any clarity, it will be had to land that impact type recruit. just an opinion, but i do hope i am wrong.
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Impact recruits/NBA players are a funny thing, they don't always have high rankings.

Top 10 recruits (2/3 NBA 67%)
  1. Andre Drummond (1 -rsci - 2012)
  2. Rudy Gay (5 - rsci)
  3. Taliek Brown (10 - rsci)
Top 25 recruits (3/5 NBA 60%, Alex still in college)
  1. Kemba Walker (15 - rsci)
  2. Alex Oriakhi* (16 - rsci)
  3. Stanley Robinson (18 -rsci)
  4. Charlie V. (18 - rsci)
  5. A.J. Price (24 - rsci)
  6. Rashad Anderson (24 -rsci)
Top 50 recruits (4/9 NBA, 44%, 4 still in college)
  1. Roscoe Smith* (28 - rsci)
  2. Curtis Kelley (30 - rsci)
  3. DeAndre Daniels* (32 - rsci)
  4. Tony Robertson (32 - rsci)
  5. Denham Brown (34 -rsci)
  6. Scott Hazelton (35 - rsci)
  7. Jerome Dyson (36 - rsci)
  8. Omar Calhoun* (37 -rsci)
  9. Marcus Williams (41 - rsci)
  10. Ben Gordon (41 -rsci)
  11. Marcus Cox (45 - rsci)
  12. Caron Butler (47 - rsci)
  13. Jamal Coombs-McDaniel* (50 - rsci)
Top 100 recruits (5/9 NBA, 56%, 2 still in college)
  1. Jeff Adrien (53 - rsci)
  2. Doug Wiggins (55 - rsci)
  3. Ryan Boatright* (64 - rsci)
  4. Hasheem Thabeet (64 -rsci)
  5. Doug Wrenn (67 - rsci)
  6. Shabazz Napier* - (75 - rsci)
  7. Jeremy Lamb - (78 - rsci)
  8. Ajou Ajou Deng (85 - rsci)
  9. Nate Miles (91 - rsci)
  10. Josh Boone (95 - rsci)
  11. Emeka Okafor (99 - rsci)
Both Stanley and Denham were drafted but never played NBA ball. The biggest "what ifs" being Wrenn and Miles, both very, very talented players.
 
caw said:
Impact recruits/NBA players are a funny thing, they don't always have high rankings.

Top 10 recruits (2/3 NBA 67%)
  1. Andre Drummond (1 -rsci - 2012)
  2. Rudy Gay (5 - rsci)
  3. Taliek Brown (10 - rsci)
Top 25 recruits (3/5 NBA 60%, Alex still in college)
  1. Kemba Walker (15 - rsci)
  2. Alex Oriakhi* (16 - rsci)
  3. Stanley Robinson (18 -rsci)
  4. Charlie V. (18 - rsci)
  5. A.J. Price (24 - rsci)
  6. Rashad Anderson (24 -rsci)
Top 50 recruits (4/9 NBA, 44%, 4 still in college)

  1. Roscoe Smith* (28 - rsci)
  2. Curtis Kelley (30 - rsci)
  3. DeAndre Daniels* (32 - rsci)
  4. Tony Robertson (32 - rsci)
  5. Denham Brown (34 -rsci)
  6. Scott Hazelton (35 - rsci)
  7. Jerome Dyson (36 - rsci)
  8. Omar Calhoun* (37 -rsci)
  9. Marcus Williams (41 - rsci)
  10. Ben Gordon (41 -rsci)
  11. Marcus Cox (45 - rsci)
  12. Caron Butler (47 - rsci)
  13. Jamal Coombs-McDaniel* (50 - rsci)
Top 100 recruits (5/9 NBA, 56%, 2 still in college)
  1. Jeff Adrien (53 - rsci)
  2. Doug Wiggins (55 - rsci)
  3. Ryan Boatright* (64 - rsci)
  4. Hasheem Thabeet (64 -rsci)
  5. Doug Wrenn (67 - rsci)
  6. Shabazz Napier* - (75 - rsci)
  7. Jeremy Lamb - (78 - rsci)
  8. Ajou Ajou Deng (85 - rsci)
  9. Nate Miles (91 - rsci)
  10. Josh Boone (95 - rsci)
  11. Emeka Okafor (99 - rsci)
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interesting stuff. nice work. my point with high ranking recruits is that now more than ever there is an urgency to get it right and with calhoun's uncertain future, there is little to no margin for error. that being said, a high ranking recruit is less likely to be a mistake and more likely to have immediate impact. its doubtful, with our current situation, a jeremy lamb type player will emerge.
 
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djct1999 said:
so are you saying that we should expect and wait for a top rated pg to decommit from another school, for a second top 10 kid to come out of nowhere and commit without ever stepping foot on campus and the top ranked center to decide in august he wants to play in storrs? yeah, that seems like a good template for sustained recruiting success. 2011, from the run in march carried through to the 3 late signees was an improbable but simply amazing 6 months that will most likely never be replicated. it is not a credible example on how calhoun and the staff will get us out of this situation.
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You act like this stuff happened completely by dumb luck. We expected to get Jabari Hinds, WVU expected us to get Jabari Hinds once Boatright committed. We were going to get a PG. Just because we didn't hear about Deandre Daniels doesn't mean the staff wasn't recruiting him hard and he only came to Storrs on a whim. If anything it speaks to the pull of playing for Calhoun and a name program like UConn without having to visit.

The Drummond situation was unique. But then again had we not gotten Hinds/Boatright we might have a spot open for Dunn and we might have landed Ledo who we were close on (particularly if we didn't get Omar). Drummond might have waited a year and not reclassified to join Dunn at UConn. You have no idea what would have happened. Rodney Purvis said we were a very close second, and that after he visited he was ready to commit.

We didn't just get recruits by dumb luck. We are going to get recruits. If you look at the history of the program some our most successful recruits were late blooming guys like Okafor, Lamb, Boone or 'unique' situations that we stumbled into. Kemba wouldn't be here if we landed Jennings, Thabeet wasn't your typical recruit. We missed on Knight/Selby but guess what, we still got Shabazz late.
 
Good list...
I believe Donyell Marshall and Chris Smith were top 100 recruits... Also, pretty sure Rip Hamilton should be on that list somewhere.

And, don't forget our best example of development in hilton armstrong. Pretty much under the radar recruiting wise. Probably a few others that weren't highly touted but got to the big show: Knight and Voskul come to mind. Don't remember a lot of hype with them but I could be wrong.
And, I would argue that Henefeld and Sheffer never made the NBA but had a HUGE impact while they were here.
 
Marty Jackson said:
Good list...
I believe Donyell Marshall and Chris Smith were top 100 recruits... Also, pretty sure Rip Hamilton should be on that list somewhere.

And, don't forget our best example of development in hilton armstrong. Pretty much under the radar recruiting wise. Probably a few others that weren't highly touted but got to the big show: Knight and Voskul come to mind. Don't remember a lot of hype with them but I could be wrong.
And, I would argue that Henefeld and Sheffer never made the NBA but had a HUGE impact while they were here.
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Don't forget the future coach: Kevin Ollie...
 
obviously calhoun has been able to recruit and develop "late" bloomers. the program wouldnt be what it is if wasnt able to do both effectively. that is not the point at all. i am not here to dispute uconn's past. it has been an amazing 20+ years and in that time, i think a top 3 program nationally. i am focusing on the present and the future. examples of late bloomers are fun to dwell on and is a testament of our hall of fame coach, but that does little to help the immediate transition going forward. so lets focus on the present for 1 second. we cant even get obekpa(who is better than hayes). instead, he likes cincy and st. johns more. and what if hayes goes to georgetown. what will you say then? i guess i should expect wolf to be the next late bloomer.
 
djct1999 said:
we cant even get obekpa(who is better than hayes). instead, he likes cincy and st. johns more. and what if hayes goes to georgetown. what will you say then? i guess i should expect wolf to be the next late bloomer.
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We are banned from the postseason next year. It is nearly impossible to recruit under that scenario. We are extremely lucky that Omar Calhoun didn't fight to get out of his LOI.

Don't think that matters to Obepka? Here you go:

As for his recruitment the usual suspects remain, including Cincinnati (who had Mick Cronin watching Obekpa’s every move all weekend), DePaul, Providence and Connecticut according to his coach. Nothing has changed in regards to plans to visit Oregon in the near future, and a final decision won’t come until sometime in May.

UConn‘s mass exodus is something they’ll keep tabs on as well. While there is the positive of immediate playing time in Storrs, there’s also the clear concern with regards to the Huskies’ postseason ban in 2013
 
Excalibur said:
So much fail in this post. First, judging recruits after they arrive and play is a fair way to assess someones overall recruiting ability over time, but it's a terrible way to analyze this situation. The only relevant factor was that we were able to land recruits that other top programs wanted.

You mentioned that Daniels wasn't a "Top 10 recruit", but how many "top 10" guys have we gotten, ever? You could count them on one hand. Scout, the more reliable service for hoops, had him as the #8 player at his position and he had an impressive offer list.
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I'm not saying Calhoun hasn't recruited well or won't recruit well. I'm in basic agreement with upstater in that Calhoun has historically been able to draw good talent, however it was done. I'm uncertain about the future. I don't however think that UConn has the recruiting prowess that some on this board like to believe.
The 2011 class was a good class. My comments were specific to the members of the 2011 recruiting class with no inferences or deductions about future recruiting success.
As for Daniels, I don't think the coaching staff saw him as a "top-ten" talent. I think they saw a blue chip talent that could compete for minutes at position they needed production. Bring him into the fold! And I think other teams saw him as a good, but not great talent. I see little merit in the Scout "top-ten" label.
 
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