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it's about time - Go Geno
- Thread starter gioff23
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Good for him!
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Nice!
"Saying he didn't blame Notre Dame for looking out for its best interest, he added, "Join us in football and then look out for your best interest."
The problem, Geno, is that joining us in football is the exact opposite of looking out for their best interest.
Their interests are:
Independent, B1G/ACC, SEC, Big XII
HUGE GAP
Big East
The problem, Geno, is that joining us in football is the exact opposite of looking out for their best interest.
Their interests are:
Independent, B1G/ACC, SEC, Big XII
HUGE GAP
Big East
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In the current landscape of things yes, but if you actually read the article he was referring to how this might never have happened if sometime earlier in this 17 year courtship they had come aboard. Now they could certainly stabilize things in the BE as he mentions if they decided today's the day, BE here we are...all in, and who knows how the most recent defectors would react . SU and Pitt would have to think about it IMO.
Goes back to the thread from a couple days ago about Penn State being refused entry in 1985 into the Big East because they sucked in basketball. If PSU had joined the BE back then Notre Dame could only have joined the BE in all sports, if they had refused bringing in football then PSU, Miami, Cuse, and Ptt would have told them no deal. Thety would have been forced to have included football and maybe the Big East Football TV Network would have been born.
I read the article, where do you think the quote came from? His quote is referring to today, not 17 years ago.
ND was clear about never joining the Big East for football. Of course they could stabilize the Big East, nobody disagrees with that. However, being pissed off that they choose to act in their own best interest, instead of others' best interest, and playing the christian card in the process, is pretty pathetic and a weak attempt at guilting them into doing our bidding, IMHO.
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This is what I was referring to;
"They've been in our league something like [17] years. How long are we going to date before we just decide this ain't working? I'm not happy about it. That's not the opinion of UConn, the Big East Conference, my president, my AD. That's just Geno Auriemma's opinion. I'm pissed about it."
"If Notre Dame had come in as a football and basketball school, all in, we wouldn't have a problem," Auriemma said. "Miami wouldn't have left. Virginia Tech wouldn't have left. Boston College wouldn't have left [all for the ACC]. We probably wouldn't have any of these issues, would we?
Their interests in the current climate may be exactly what you say, then again they may not. You or I have no idea what their interests are beyond the fact that they have spurned every conference offer to date including some from the very ones you name. The things he said ring true, and for too long have gone unsaid, probably for fear of upsetting those in the Golden Dome. Well now's the time to say it, quite frankly we have nothing to lose. They take their other sports somewhere else, . I would rather them go down swinging, even if deep down I do feel its too little too late.[/quote]
People don't walk around scared of upsetting ND. The relationship was beneficial to both parties, that's why we signed on to it. It's got nothing to do with fear of ND. They can walk any time they want, and nothing Geno says, or anyone else, is going to make that happen. They'll walk when it's in their best interest to do so.
Funny how long many on this board made fun of the "irrelevant" ND and argued against playing them in a neutral venue, or with an uneven series, and now many of those same critics have come to the realization that ND is still ND, even if they sucked on the field for a decade or more.
Funny how long many on this board made fun of the "irrelevant" ND and argued against playing them in a neutral venue, or with an uneven series, and now many of those same critics have come to the realization that ND is still ND, even if they sucked on the field for a decade or more.
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Again you claim to know what people do and do not do in regard to ND. If you have some inside knowledge please share it. But for a number of years now the BE has been in dire straits and the leaders in the conference chose to sit back and wait and be reactionary. They should have come forward as a group long ago and said "all in" or take your teams somewhere else and if they did so be it. The past arrangement worked for a time but that time had past long ago.
Explain one benefit of having ND in everything but football? Would the BE BB have suffered without them? Baseball? W BB? right none of the other sports would have been affected. Did the Conference gain money from the past relationship? Oh right they kept the real money to themselves. The arrangement was made in hopes that eventually they would move their FB into the conference as well, since that was apparent many years ago that this was never going to happen, yes they should have cut them loose long ago. For whatever reason they didn't. And here we are now,we find that maybe it was best that they hadn't cut them loose. Our conference mate for the last 17 years can not only help right the ship but potentially help bring others onboard.
The irrelevance of ND you speak of I would be willing to bet was in terms of being competitive on a national level. Minus a couple of seasons they haven't been relevant for some time. The context in which you use it is really naive quite frankly.
ND wants to call the shots for their football. Much like our old arrangement whose time has past, their run as an independent has past and will come to an end. But if they think for a second that the power conferences are going to let ND be ND they have a rude awakening coming. ND's value is in their history in football, not their other sports. Their FB team will not be waking up the echoes in those conferences, they have been very average at best for 20 years and that is being generous. I would be shocked if a power conference will stand for the type of crap the BE has, they will be forced into an all or nothing stituation. They stand a much better chance in the BE then trying to compete elsewhere, at least here they could appear like they are still relevant.
Explain one benefit of having ND in everything but football? Would the BE BB have suffered without them? Baseball? W BB? right none of the other sports would have been affected. Did the Conference gain money from the past relationship? Oh right they kept the real money to themselves. The arrangement was made in hopes that eventually they would move their FB into the conference as well, since that was apparent many years ago that this was never going to happen, yes they should have cut them loose long ago. For whatever reason they didn't. And here we are now,we find that maybe it was best that they hadn't cut them loose. Our conference mate for the last 17 years can not only help right the ship but potentially help bring others onboard.
The irrelevance of ND you speak of I would be willing to bet was in terms of being competitive on a national level. Minus a couple of seasons they haven't been relevant for some time. The context in which you use it is really naive quite frankly.
ND wants to call the shots for their football. Much like our old arrangement whose time has past, their run as an independent has past and will come to an end. But if they think for a second that the power conferences are going to let ND be ND they have a rude awakening coming. ND's value is in their history in football, not their other sports. Their FB team will not be waking up the echoes in those conferences, they have been very average at best for 20 years and that is being generous. I would be shocked if a power conference will stand for the type of crap the BE has, they will be forced into an all or nothing stituation. They stand a much better chance in the BE then trying to compete elsewhere, at least here they could appear like they are still relevant.
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Jerry - GREAT post. It would be nice to have ND in the BE but I wish everyone would stop sucking up to them. I am a season ticket holder and I would not go to a neutral site for our home games to see them. Play at the Rent or not at all.
Do you enjoy arguing with yourself? Most of this rant isn't even directed at anything I said.
I'm naive? Ok, keep thinking ND is irrelevant when the fact is there isn't a conference in the country that wouldn't welcome them with open arms tomorrow for all sports. Can UConn say the same?
As for the value they bring the conference, I've been over it time and again. No point in repeating. Your bitterness toward them won't let you see the reality of the situation anyway.
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+1000 Extremely hilarious. Good post. Oh and BTW, Notre Dame needs to have it's thrown out of the BE once and for all. They are parasites, feeding off the BE in all other sports.
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It's too late to kick ND out. Everyonen claimed that having ND as a BE tie in helped us get better bowl games, and while that is true, look what it got us in the end. ND's president claiming that Syracuse and Pitt were selfish for thinking of their needs instead of the conference. After the first raid, the MT should have drawn the line with ND, all in or out and invited 5 football teams instead of 3 football and 2 basketball.
Everything MT did was an effort to satisfy ND and not the interest of the BE, and now JM looks to do the same. Tired of those parasites, don't give them any comfort in whatever is left of the BE, sick and tired of the BE being ND's whore. The loss of Syracuse and Pitt is just too much to overcome and I'd rather see Uconn go to the ACC and WVU and Lville go to the Big 12 just so that the guys in Providence never have authority over football schools. They can have their A-10 type conference and screw themselves. This was a royal duck up from the point where the BE turned down Penn St. I'm done with JM and evryone asssociated with BE leadership.
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SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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The relationship has not been worth it for some time. Geno, is right that their status creates instability. As far as we know the BE is the only AQ willing to accommodate their FB independence. If AQ affiliation, in this case meaning large research institutions, for their olympic sports, then they would have joined one long ago.
In addition to having one less chair to fill, we would not have to deal with everyone positioning themselves to add ND and this process would be shorter.
Is all this worth it for Champs sports bowl? They are no longer worth the trouble and if the BB schools have any interest in preserving BE FB, they should end the relationship.
You learn the value of partners when times are bad. ND is standing by while the BE is being attacked, knowing they could end it. Rather than step in to help, they are standing around to pick over the carcass. They are of course, under no obligation but a partner they are not. IMO, they are no longer worth the trouble.
If I'm a BB school I would demand to know ND's intentions in the event of a split. Also, if I'm a BB with an interest in keeping the FB schools in conference then I'm telling ND it's all in or time to shake hands and move on.
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In addition to having one less chair to fill, we would not have to deal with everyone positioning themselves to add ND and this process would be shorter.
Is all this worth it for Champs sports bowl? They are no longer worth the trouble and if the BB schools have any interest in preserving BE FB, they should end the relationship.
You learn the value of partners when times are bad. ND is standing by while the BE is being attacked, knowing they could end it. Rather than step in to help, they are standing around to pick over the carcass. They are of course, under no obligation but a partner they are not. IMO, they are no longer worth the trouble.
If I'm a BB school I would demand to know ND's intentions in the event of a split. Also, if I'm a BB with an interest in keeping the FB schools in conference then I'm telling ND it's all in or time to shake hands and move on.
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LOL, no. I hate ND. I just refuse to live in a fantasy land where they should act in our best interest, and they are to blame for our shortcomings.
SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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In a 16 team league, someone has to go 3-13. They are doing there part. ND isn't pulling as hard as they could for the BE and people resent it. Perhaps the relationship has just run its course.
If ND has assured the BBs it will stick with them no matter what happens to FB then you can justify them staying. If not, why keep them around. Perhaps that's what the reported anger of the BB schools.toward ND was about. They wouldn't answer?
At some point you need to know who's on board with you.
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It really is amazing how you comprehend things. This is similar to how you translate ND FOOTBALL being irrelevant on a national level over the last two decades as being that ND is irrelevant.
No one is saying they should act in our interest. They should be forced to go all in or be on there way because the current situation is not working for the BE. And no one is blaming them. Could they have helped the conference? Absolutely! Will they? Given their desire to remain independant and in control of the revenue from football, probably not. So what do we have to lose by giving them an ultimatum? Nothing. That's not a fantasy that is the reality of the situation and it's about time someone with any kind of weight in the conference has said as much. It won't come from any president or the Commissioner because they have to put on the PC BS in hopes of swaying them to commit. A coach with Geno's stature can get away with it.
SubbaBub
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^^^^ this.
Politically ND helped the BB schools vs. FB in conference matters. Not sure that's the case now. Why do they need ND if they cause unnecessary drama and would bolt a catholic league?
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Politically ND helped the BB schools vs. FB in conference matters. Not sure that's the case now. Why do they need ND if they cause unnecessary drama and would bolt a catholic league?
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ND is irrelevant as a football program. As a marketing brand and television attraction they couldn't be more relevant. Everything Geno said is true, and hard to logically dispute. Of course, had ND joined years ago, the Big East may not have pushed Uconn to upgrade. He never said they should act in our best interest. I think his point is why do we allow them to use the Beast at this point when the gain isn't very substantial.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Yes, ND football is irrelevant, that's why no BCS conference would take their sorry program, especially the Big East. You recognize they could save the big east, but call their football program irrelevant. You're killing me, that's just too funny!!!
Please don't question my comprehension, worry about your own. You actually wrote "nobody is saying ND should act in our interest" but that is exactly the point Geno is making when he said they should join for football, and then worry about their self interest.
If you want to be mad at somebody, be mad at the 8 football school for not splitting away from ND; because kicking them out of the conference was never a realistic outcome for anyone living in the real world.
You guys can't be serious. Jeezus....
"ND is irrelevant as a football program"- Really? Then why are they the only independent with a network contract, and a special rule including them in the BCS bowl system?
"As a marketing brand and television attraction they couldn't be more relevant". Convenient how you separate the two, as if they don't have anything to do with eachother. Dumb and intellectually dishonest. But convenient. I suppose people tune into NBC to watch the Notre Dame Marketing Brand battle it out with the USC Compliance Officers?
"Why do we allow them to use the Beast at this point when the gain isn't very substantial". So as a marketing brand and television attraction they couldn't be more relevant, but the gain for the big east isn't very substantial. Are you kidding? You're trying to act as if they aren't important and don't bring value, while arguing that they are important and bring value.
Lastly...
"He never said they should act in our best interest."
Yes. He. Did.
"But join us in football and then look out for your best interest," Auriemma said.
Join us in football, because it's in our best interest, and then look out for your best interest.
I don't care what whether we split or not. But blaming ND for our situation, and acting as if they don't bring any value, is dumb. With all due respect to the special needs kids and their families I don't know any other way to explain how "developmentally disabled" those two ideas are.
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You are hilarious
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Actually its in the interest of the entire BE conference which they happen to be a partial member of, taking full advantage of the benefits that come with it, now its time for the recipricol.
For someone who claims not to be a domer you sure have your panties in bunch from people who only want the best for our conference. It's okay to have different views no matter how naive we think of them (that's your views and mine). And I'm not worried about your comprehension skills you clearly demonstrate the need for them to be developed as do your social graces when the only analogy that comes to mind is one that mocks the mentally handicapped.
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oh my god no one is blaming them, we want them to be a full member of our conference, do you get that???? People are tired of the half in model, it doesn't work for one half of the business partnership, come in fully or go somewhere else, see how it works out for them.
Yes, people are blaming them. I didn't say you, or everyone, but people are blaming them. You choose to not to see what's right in front of your eyes. Like the quote from Geno. "Join in football, THEN look out for your best interest." That is obviously an admission that joining is more about the Big East being saved rather than ND's situation being improved. Unless you think they are really better off joining the Big East than being an independent.
I never said you couldn't be tired of it, and I never said anyone should be happy about it. I said it's stupid to blame ND for taking a deal offered to them, it's stupid to act like they aren't relevant just because they lost some football games when you readily admit they can save the conference, it's stupid to try and pretend there's a difference between football relevancy and marketing relevancy, it's stupid to pretend their basketball program doesn't bring value to the contract (ever watch UConn/ND on CBS the past few years?), and it's stupid to expect them to act in our best interest, which is what you're doing when you say or agree with "Join in football, then look out for your best interest."
Those ideas are so mentally handicapped. Does that PC nonsense make you feel better?
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The whole arguement is about saving the conference, yet you don't get that. The arrangement doesn't work for the current situation that the BE is in. Sorry but that is a weak attempt by bringing up ND playing UConn on CBS in basketball. I would watch UConn play anybody on CBS, we are the draw there not ND, that is why when they do beat us people make a big deal about it, similar to when we beat them in football. Is that too complex for you, you clearly being a Domer might believe that people are watching for ND but just another example of the rediculousness of your position. ND's other sports have benefitted tremendously from being in the BE, sadly the football portion of the BE cannot say the same for it's arrangement with ND, where ND can take Bowl games from BE teams that qualify but yet give nothing back to the conference.
You fail to see this point or address it, I've asked several times, I'll go once more. What benefit does our current association with ND bring to the BE? We do not have the luxury to wait them out anymore, if we are to survive as a conference we need them on board. If they are unwilling to do that then they need to be cut loose across the board. With them gone we will have actually a better situation only in the respect that we will not have teams passed over once every four years for bowl game for a ND team that is not giving anything back to the conference that they take the spot from.
The failure of the conference has nothing to do with ND but in the current situation the past arrangement does not help they are more than welcome to come aboard but if they're not willing then they need to go entirely.
SubbaBub
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I didn't say they they brought no value. I don't think they bring enough value for the current arrangement. We get a soild men's BB program and the Champs Sports Bowl at the cost of the stablity of the conference. If you paid $1000 for a hamburger, you would be getting value for your $$, but not $1000 in value. ND is our $1000 hamburger because, in all league matters there are not two competing factions, there are three. In their own self interest in preserving the status quo, ND has mostly sided with BB. Today, they are against the interests of both FB and BB, if they allow the BE to disband FB and will seek other BB affiliation. I'll say it again, the relationship has run it's course and in hindsight was bad for the BE FB. It is now bad for BE BB. The BB schools should realize this and ask them to join for all sports or move along in the interests of the basketbal schools. They do not share the goals of the BE conference. I don't see how they could ever be a trusted partner. Time for them to be told, "Thanks, but we need to move on."
You're right, when Marquette is playing ND on CBS this year, Marquette is the draw, not ND. ND is on tv almost as much as any other school in the conference, and more than traditional teams like Nova. Yet you believe they aren't a draw. That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, it's wrong, but you're entitled to believe that. If ND has nothing to do with our games being on CBS, then why aren't the USF games on CBS? Or DePaul? or Rutgers? etc, etc.
The basketball schools aren't kicking them out, I don't know why that is difficult for you to understand. The options are for the football schools to split, or continue the relationship, because nobody is getting kicked out. I've already said I'm fine if we split, but don't think our bowl arrangements will improve without ND, they won't. You claim they don't give anything back, but we wouldn't have had the Gator or Champs without them, and the basketball contract wouldn't be as high without them. These are facts, not opinions. So when you claim they don't bring anything to the table, you're wrong. You want them gone, so you ignore the value they add, but they do add value. Sure, it doesn't make us stable, but if you think the conference will be more stable without ND, then you don't understand at all what is behind conference re-alignment. The conference isn't suffering because the basketball schools have different goals, the conference is suffering because some of the football teams had better options and chose to excercise them.
I've been telling you what the association brings to the conference this entire thread, but you choose not to see what's right in front of your eyes.
I get that people want rid of them, I've said that repeatedly. But just because you want them gone, doesn't mean they don't bring anything to the association. If they didn't, the relationship would have been over with years ago. It's not hard to understand that.
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I don't think I said you did.
I was laughing at the people calling them parasites. As if they don't help the big east, and are responsible for killing it. That's ridiculous.
The basketball schools are not going to do that, the writing is on the wall, the conference is just about dead, and the basketball schools would be more than happy to continue the relationship with ND because of the value they bring to the conference.
We either 1) split, rebuild, and hope it works out, or 2) continue the relationship, rebuild, and hope it works. But ND isn't getting kicked out because it's not in the best interest of the basketball schools. They lost Pitt, lost Cuse, could lose WVU, Louisville and/or UConn. They need ND badly to help with the TV contract if a split occurs or the football side continues to lose members.
I'm a domer? LMAO. Why? Because I have common damn sense?
I've been a UConn fan my entire life. I've been to every bowl game we played in, including spending over 30 hours in the car to get to two of them. Spent another 48 hours in the car to get to Michigan and Notre Dame and back for those games. I'm still paying off the debt from my trip to the Fiesta Bowl. And I bought tickets through UConn when others I know bought in the secondary market, spent 1/3rd of what I did, and sat 40 rows closer in much better seats.
Just because I am able to use my head instead of my heart when it comes to a conversation on ND and their relationship with the Big East doesn't make me a domer. My heart says we should kick them out. My head says that isn't happening. You should start thinking and stop feeling, and then maybe you'll understand my point.
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I took a second today after going to sit back and think about the following: What would be the make-up of the Big East if all the football schools that are left got swallowed up by another conference. It leaves a good quality basketball/olympic sports league that if schools like Butler and Xavier were added can hold their own against the Big Boys in tournament play. I can see ND being VERY happy being a member of a conference like this. I can see this happening before they join a conference for all sports.
As long as they have the opportunity to play for a national championship or in a BCS bowl as an independent that is exactly what they would do.
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Right now they have a BCS tie-in that I don't see them losing due to their NBC contract.
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Seriously? You're giving them credit for the CBS deal for basketball? They play one game on CBS - we happen to be on twice neither of which is against ND. The BE deal with CBS was established before ND joined up in 1995. You know that your arguement is very weak on this, if you seriously ND . BTW here's the breakdown for TV for basketball;
ND - 31 games
6 - BE Network
16 - ESPN channels (five games in an established early season tourney)
1 - CBS
1 - Mid Atlantic Network
7 - no TV coverage
UConn - 30 Games
3 - HDNet/VS (new early season tourney)
2 - CBS
12 - ESPN channels
13 - SNY
0 - no TV coverage
But this is about football. I said if they don't want to join in football then we should get rid of them entirely and I stand by that, I don't want to get rid of them for the sake of it. I said it several times I want them on board, so has everyone else, but ND doesn't want to, so they can take their "all other sports" and go play somewhere else. We can find an all sports member that can bring as much as they do in "all other sports" but actually contribute to the football side. Granted they won't have the name cache that ND has but that name is not doing anything for us on the football side. I can think of UCF as a really great candidate in that regard. They have a huge enrollment, 56,000 they are in the no. 19 tv market they bring competitive "all other sports" and loads of pontential from a football standpoint, and last I checked the Champs Bowl is located pretty close to them.
Did you happen to notice that you are the only one defending an old agreement that doesn't work for the conference anymore? This isn't about basketball or any other sport, its about football. Did I happen to mention this is about football?
BTW the Gator was a 50% deal meaning they could take the bowl 2 of every 4 years, see how that works? The current deal is 25% meaning they could take the bowl 1 of every 4 years.
Now class do you see what happened when the new deal for the Champs Bowl was put in place? That's right the amount that school ND could take away from Conference BE was reduced by half! Now if said school has only a 25% stake in the bowl game do you think its a credible statement to say that the conference in question would never have had that bowl game without said school? Just what I was thinking class!
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All you do is rant and rave, and then put words in my mouth to argue with.
I'm not defending the agreement, I'm laughing at the people delusional enough to blame ND instead of looking in the mirror. None of your bitching and moaning about ND, or me, disproves the following.
1) Notre Dame adds value to the basketball contract, much more than programs like DePaul, USF, Rutgers, Providence, Seton Hall, and some others. The fact they are on TV 30 times, and more than a school like Villanova is evidence of that. That our games vs them were on CBS the past few years is more evidence, not less. If you think UConn was the only reason, and ND had nothing to do with it, explain why EACH of our games vs. USF, Depaul, Seton Hall, Rutgers, etc, etc, haven't been on CBS or espn/espn2 the past few years. Or explain why ND vs. Marquette is on CBS this year. I'm not saying UConn has nothing to do with it, I'm saying it's delusional to pretend ND has no impact either.
2) Notre Dame isn't to blame for our current situation, the lack of tradition, prestige, and large fanbases; combined with better options for some of the members are the reasons we're here now. ND said they wouldn't join, didn't join, and we brought them on anyway. Blaming them for our willingness to bend to their conditions is delusional.
3) Notre Dame isn't going to join for football because it's not in their best interest. If you want to pretend this isn't true because their president hasn't held a press conference announcing it, fine, pretend away, but know that you're wrong. If joining the Big East was in their best interest, they would have joined years ago. Asking them to join now that Pitt/Quse are leaving and they should be good christians (looking at you Geno), is akin to asking UConn to join the MAC to help legitimize UMass' upgrade because we should be good neighbors. Asking them to "join, then look out for [their] best interest" is begging and pathetic, and I expect better from Geno.
4) Notre Dame provides stability for the basketball schools and they are not kicking them out. If the football schools split, they lose the best of the rest of the basketball programs except for Georgetown, Nova, and Notre Dame. If kicking Notre Dame out helped stabilize the conference, the basketball schools would agree to it. ND is the head of the expansion committee, do you really think that is an accident and the basketball schools don't want to stay associated with ND because they don't add any value?
If you're not going to disprove those points (and you can't) then anything else you post is a waste of your time.[/quote][/quote]
I don't believe the contract has anything to do with it. The BCS is made up of a bunch of representatives from the schools, all with competing interests, but similar goals. They aren't likely to be the ones who push ND into a corner out of fear that their conference would lose out and be harmed.
Their tie-in is based on performance, just like the conferences. They have to meet certain requirements or be granted some sort of waiver, which they'll get if they need.
nelsonmuntz
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- Aug 27, 2011
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- 47,118
- Reaction Score
- 40,743
a) ND brings nothing to the table and should have been kicked out a long time ago.
b) They are not the reason the Big East is in the situation it is in. The 8 football schools did that to themselves.
b) They are not the reason the Big East is in the situation it is in. The 8 football schools did that to themselves.
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