It’s not just basketball, the NCAA fumbles softball too

[HuskyNan]

What year is this again, 1971? What will it take for female athletes to be taken seriously?

If just a few coaches, say Connecticut’s Geno Auriemma, LSU’s Kim Mulkey and Stanford’s Tara VanDerveer, were to explain to the NCAA they would not be bringing their teams to the NCAA tournament until it got its act together and treated the women as it treats the men, it would change, pronto….

The problem is culture and imagination. The culture asks itself what Hutchins said. Considering the women, it asks what must be done. With the men, it’s what can be done.

Horning: Coaches need to tell NCAA what's acceptable and threaten not showing up

The inning escapes. But the house was nearly full, so let’s call it 11,000 inside Oklahoma City’s Hall of Fame Stadium on a Thursday afternoon.

www.normantranscript.com

 

[jcoton56]

If congress would explain that title 9 applies to the NCAA and enforce the law that might be sufficient. Its always about the money.

 

[CL82]

A lot of that article seemed like it was trying too hard to create a gender disparity issue. The NCAA does not control ESPN’s TV schedule. The scheduling issue seems more like a competency issue than a gender disparity one. And it is tough to take offense at an announcement promoting next year’s championship. The facility issue is a good point, but where are there better softball facilities with all weather training and showers at the stadium? I’m not aware of many college baseball stadiums that have that either.

This is different than the women’s basketball tournament, where there were clearly issues of gender disparity and no reasons why they couldn’t be afforded the same treatment as the men’s teams. JMO.

 

[CL82]

If congress would explain that title 9 applies to the NCAA and enforce the law that might be sufficient. Its always about the money.

I believe the courts have held otherwise. The fix would be to broaden the law so that a school participating in an organization that isn’t compliant also would be found to be noncompliant. That would force the NCAA to either comply with the law or the member schools to find a new organization.

 

[HuskyNan]

If congress would explain that title 9 applies to the NCAA and enforce the law that might be sufficient. Its always about the money.

Title 9 isn’t about sports. The part referring to sports is a few paragraphs in a larger education law that says that institutions of learning that take Federal money have to fund education and activities, including sports, to girls and boys equally.

 

[HuskyNan]

A lot of that article seemed like it was trying too hard to create a gender disparity issue. The NCAA does not control ESPN’s TV schedule. The scheduling issue seems more like a competency issue than a gender disparity one. And it is tough to take offense at an announcement promoting next years championship. The facility issue is good point but where are there better softball facilities with all weather training and showers at the stadium? I’m not aware of many college baseball stadiums that have that either.

This is different than the women’s basketball tournament, where there were clearly issues of gender disparity and no reasons why they couldn’t be afforded the same treatment as tie men’s teams. JMO.

the issue isn’t a weight room or a tv schedule, it’s an attitude. As the article stated, when planning the women’s tourneys, it appears the NCAA attitude is “what do we have to give them” rather than “what can we give them”. good enough isn’t good enough.

 

[jcoton56]

My point is simply that the NCAA operates in an arbitrary manner with no regard for equity when it plans , hosts and promotes championship events in athletics. The quality of the accomodations, facilities and officiating are symptoms of their disregard for women‘s athletics. I simply believe the law falls short.

 

[CocoHusky]

If congress would explain that title 9 applies to the NCAA and enforce the law that might be sufficient. Its always about the money.
My point is simply that the NCAA operates in an arbitrary manner with no regard for equity when it plans , hosts and promotes championship events in athletics. The quality of the accomodations, facilities and officiating are symptoms of their disregard for women‘s athletics. I simply believe the law falls short.

This is a common misconception. Title 9 does not apply to NCAA. As @HuskyNan has stated it applies to the “individual” institutions which receive federal funds. It cannot be applied to a collection of schools such as a conference or the NCAA itself. The applicable statute for a much needed NCAA attitude adjustment is the one that designates the NCAA as tax exempt-essentially a charity.

 

[baggerbob]

A lot of that article seemed like it was trying too hard to create a gender disparity issue. The NCAA does not control ESPN’s TV schedule. The scheduling issue seems more like a competency issue than a gender disparity one. And it is tough to take offense at an announcement promoting next years championship. The facility issue is good point but where are there better softball facilities with all weather training and showers at the stadium? I’m not aware of many college baseball stadiums that have that either.

This is different than the women’s basketball tournament, where there were clearly issues of gender disparity and no reasons why they couldn’t be afforded the same treatment as tie men’s teams. JMO.

Unfortunately the women get no respect in any of the sports. Yesterday tuned into Golf Channel to watch the LPGA tournament in San Francisco, and had to watch the end of some rinky dink 3rd tier men's tournament. These guys miss easy putts, have little ability in their short games. They put the early part of the LPGA on golf+. That's where these bozo's should have been.

 

[Larry 7237]

Bottom line. Women are treated like 2nd class citizens when it comes to the NCAA and sports!!

 

[CL82]

the issue isn’t a weight room or a tv schedule, it’s an attitude. As the article stated, when planning the women’s tourneys, it appears the NCAA attitude is “what do we have to give them” rather than “what can we give them”. good enough isn’t good enough.

Perhaps, yet I wonder if softball is treated differently than a male non-revenue sport, such as lacrosse.

 

[Charliebball]

no doubt the training facilities should be of equal quality for men and women's sports.............if women's sports had higher ratings and brought in more dollars they'd get more favorable scheduling............it's as simple as that.............as far as playing two games in a day, that's a pretty common situation starting with youngsters in club ball all the way to some early season multi school college games............my daughter used to regularly pitch twice a day as a 10U-14U softball player

 

[donalddoowop]

no doubt the training facilities should be of equal quality for men and women's sports.............if women's sports had higher ratings and brought in more dollars they'd get more favorable scheduling............it's as simple as that.............as far as playing two games in a day, that's a pretty common situation starting with youngsters in club ball all the way to some early season multi school college games............my daughter used to regularly pitch twice a day as a 10U-14U softball player

Playing two softball games in one day is nothing new. In some big non collegiate tourneys, some teams play as many as three or four games if they fall into the losers bracket.

 

[Alydar]

How is men's baseball treated? Are the baseball teams housed in luxury hotels? Are they fed like men's basketball? How about the Lacrosse championships? Why does a college basketball coach make more than a Nobel Prize winner of either gender? This is much more a money issue than a gender issue.

The two revenue sports do get treated better but I'd wager that women's basketball would compare favorably to all men's sports on this issue except football & basketball. The media should take a look and I'll bet they will find that all championships, mens and womens, got treated at a lower level by the NCAA than the men's basketball participants.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

On the overarching point that the NCAA doesn't necessarily put as much thought and effort and money into the women's side as they do to the men, I'll buy that, no problem.

Likewise, I agree that the softball tournament would be improved with rescheduling to a more strung out schedule. Both from the participants (who are largely post semester end) and the fans. The particular timing of the event can lead to days of excessive temperature, but also days of delays due to thunderstorms and tornados.

That said, I don't see any "evil" in this. The stadium is arguable the finest in the land. I'm not surprised there are no showers, as there are no locker rooms as far as I know. I agree this would be a sensible improvement. Many school's facilities are quite bare-bones; even Arizona's stadium only got private restrooms for the team and a "back room" to the dugout in the most recent renovation.

And "in the day" when teams were single pitcher dependent they pitched two complete games in one day, no problem. I'm not arguing that this was good for the athletes, but it wasn't unusual, and is one of the main reasons the men's series is more spread out - pitchers need rest, and always have or they hurt their arms. Softball is much less hard on the arms.

 

[HuskyNan]

Perhaps, yet I wonder if softball is treated differently than a male non-revenue sport, such as lacrosse.

This is a straw man argument

 

[CL82]

This is a straw man argument

Actually it’s spot on if we are talking about treating similarly situated people similarly, regardless of their gender.

 

[JRRRJ]

A lot of that article seemed like it was trying too hard to create a gender disparity issue. The NCAA does not control ESPN’s TV schedule. The scheduling issue seems more like a competency issue than a gender disparity one. And it is tough to take offense at an announcement promoting next year’s championship. The facility issue is a good point, but where are there better softball facilities with all weather training and showers at the stadium? I’m not aware of many college baseball stadiums that have that either.

This is different than the women’s basketball tournament, where there were clearly issues of gender disparity and no reasons why they couldn’t be afforded the same treatment as the men’s teams. JMO.

Research indicates the Oklahoma City softball facility is the best to be found in the U.S in the opinions of many, and the international softball cup has also been held there a number of times.

A quote from Wikipedia (itself a quote from Graham Hayes):
"The complex includes the main stadium, several practice fields, and an office building. The complex is owned by the city and operated under a long-term lease by USA Softball with the exception of the office building, which USA Softball owns and uses for its headquarters
.
.
.
In late summer and early fall of 2018 a new two-story state of the art press box was built, and a new LED jumbotron video scoreboard was also added. Seating capacity (seating bowl and outfield bleachers) was further expanded in time for the 2020 Women's College World Series, ultimately not held due to the COVID-19 pandemic. The latest expansion brought the main stadium's capacity to 13,000.[1]

In 2007, it was ranked the number eight sporting venue in the state of Oklahoma.
."

The NCAA would apparently need to build (or subsidize on some campus) a facility of their own if a better one were desired.

Not holding my breath on that one...

 

[Artifact]

The problem for woman's sports starts with the NCAA. They do a terrible job in representing all women athletes. Just look how they handled the last Woman's NCAA Final Four, especially their housing accommodations & meals, practice facilities, & qualities of the referees in the games played. Teams received the short end of the Stick !

 

[Centerstream]

Some follow-up

OU Softball: NCAA showing signs of listening to Gasso, others, who are demanding change

NORMAN — Somebody is listening to Patty Gasso.

www.normantranscript.com

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

The problem for woman's sports starts with the NCAA. They do a terrible job in representing all women athletes. Just look how they handled the last Woman's NCAA Final Four, especially their housing accommodations & meals, practice facilities, & qualities of the referees in the games played. Teams received the short end of the Stick !

If you want to gripe about referee quality in general, feel free. But the ones in the tourney were (as always) those that are considered the "best" (I believe they are in some fashion recommended by the conferences). They don't stint on the quality of the referees in the tourney, but of course many would argue it is the best of a poor group.

 

[Dokey]

Playing two softball games in one day is nothing new. In some big non collegiate tourneys, some teams play as many as three or four games if they fall into the losers bracket.

Yes, my granddaughter pitched four full games a day as did her mother. Underhand is a natural motion, throwing overhand is hard on arms which is why MLBB games drag on and on with pitching changes and pitchers who work only every four or five days and still go on the disabled list. I taught softball pitching for 30 years.