Is UConn Facing a Structural Problem?

[RSTuthill]

Yeah, we have seen this movie before. A collapse after a 6-7 year. Was it 2016 or 2017? Doesn't matter, it is seared into our collective minds.

What the heck is going on?

Some things have occurred to me that have not been discussed and some that have. In no particular order:

1. It seems almost obvious that player mobility is hurting UConn rather than helping. UConn as a lower level independent, is being used as a training ground and they are unable to replace their losses to the portal with equal quality.
2. The psychological effect of not joining a P4 conference when it was built up as almost a sure thing throughout the summer. A resulting WTF attitude by the players after the letdown.
3. Rolling around in the back of my mind has been the thought that if this goes on much longer, HCJM may decide he has had enough of a no-win situation and just ask to be released from his contract. Guessing not the end of this season, but by the end of next season it would become a real possibility if this continues.
4. Like recruiting players, recruiting coaches is really tough at UConn. I am a little more tolerant of less than optimum coaching than most. But are we suffering from this? Hard to imagine that HCJM did not get first rate coaches, but UConn's football status may have affected quality. I am not qualified to judge, the comments here by others notwithstanding.
5. If HCJM did exit, who might UConn get? Almost certainly a successul FCS coach I would guess. Who else would come? Wou;d Bob Chesney up the road be a good match? I doubt UConn could beat Holy Cross right now.
6. Is the lack of bigtime NIL the problem? Feels like the players' expectations might have been higher and they are just mailing it in. Thoughts?
7. It is a little frustrating to think that UConn would be in the B12 now if they had stayed in the AAC and won a BB nattie. Of course the BB fans would argue that the nattie would not have happened had they stayed in the AAC. Personally I think that Hurley could have done it in the AAC, but that and a second mortgage will get you on the subway these days.
8. Also rolling around the back of my head is the factoid that the last UConn HC whose team started the season 0-4 got fired the next Tuesday ... nine days after his team came within 3 points of Michigan. [Sorry, this may not be quite correct, but the point stands.] That is not happening this year, but the situation does look very unfavorable.

 

[Rdkid]

This is the most germane thread topic I’ve seen in weeks. I hope someone with real knowledge of the program chimes in on NIL, what had been sold to present and future players on P4, portal surfing/recruitment. Are we prepared to sink or swim in this brave new world?

 

[Glastonhusky]

Yeah, we have seen this movie before. A collapse after a 6-7 year. Was it 2016 or 2017? Doesn't matter, it is seared into our collective minds.

What the heck is going on?

Some things have occurred to me that have not been discussed and some that have. In no particular order:

1. It seems almost obvious that player mobility is hurting UConn rather than helping. UConn as a lower level independent, is being used as a training ground and they are unable to replace their losses to the portal with equal quality.
2. The psychological effect of not joining a P4 conference when it was built up as almost a sure thing throughout the summer. A resulting WTF attitude by the players after the letdown.
3. Rolling around in the back of my mind has been the thought that if this goes on much longer, HCJM may decide he has had enough of a no-win situation and just ask to be released from his contract. Guessing not the end of this season, but by the end of next season it would become a real possibility if this continues.
4. Like recruiting players, recruiting coaches is really tough at UConn. I am a little more tolerant of less than optimum coaching than most. But are we suffering from this? Hard to imagine that HCJM did not get first rate coaches, but UConn's football status may have affected quality. I am not qualified to judge, the comments here by others notwithstanding.
5. If HCJM did exit, who might UConn get? Almost certainly a successul FCS coach I would guess. Who else would come? Wou;d Bob Chesney up the road be a good match? I doubt UConn could beat Holy Cross right now.
6. Is the lack of bigtime NIL the problem? Feels like the players' expectations might have been higher and they are just mailing it in. Thoughts?
7. It is a little frustrating to think that UConn would be in the B12 now if they had stayed in the AAC and won a BB nattie. Of course the BB fans would argue that the nattie would not have happened had they stayed in the AAC. Personally I think that Hurley could have done it in the AAC, but that and a second mortgage will get you on the subway these days.
8. Also rolling around the back of my head is the factoid that the last UConn HC whose team started the season 0-4 got fired the next Tuesday ... nine days after his team came within 3 points of Michigan. [Sorry, this may not be quite correct, but the point stands.] That is not happening this year, but the situation does look very unfavorable.

Agree with No 1. I was also wondering about the psychological effect of the B12 snub. Even as a fan I don't have the same level of excitement for the season knowing what might have been. A couple wins might help get it back. I don't think Mora is getting fired, I also don't see him quitting. He's a fighter, and I'm sure he wants to turn this thing around.

 

[RSTuthill]

Looking at UConn from the perspective of a southern P4 school, nothing captures UConn more than the fact that it has a woman on their basketball team pulling down million dollar NIL contracts while the football players are getting next to nothing. To them, that pretty much says it all. "Those people are just different."

 

[Travelman6]

Fan support:

People came out for NC State. They really wanted to see a competent UConn team perhaps get a win. Even in a close loss, I don't think that game was all negative, not even close. At least it was competitive despite some mistakes. No one can claim there was a lack of student support for the first game. But after that 41-7 drubbing that could have easily been 56-0 or 63-0, who can blame students for simply NOT being interested (anymore)? Who can blame them for just wanting to chill in the dorms and socialize and have some beers with friends or go out to a nearby bar or house party and play beer pong, etc., that's way more fun compared to this.

With that said, if they don't come out again to support the team that will also have its own impact on the team but again, who wants to see Tennessee pulverize UConn the way Duke just did, we were supposed to be past that, it's demoralizing for all involved and just doesn't feel like a good use of time for students/fans.

 

[uconnfan68]

Looking at UConn from the perspective of a southern P4 school, nothing captures UConn more than the fact that it has a woman on their basketball team pulling down million dollar NIL contracts while the football players are getting next to nothing. To them, that pretty much says it all. "Those people are just different."

The highest paid athlete in college is a female gymnast at LSU, some people say.

 

[fleaflicker]

Yeah, we have seen this movie before. A collapse after a 6-7 year. Was it 2016 or 2017? Doesn't matter, it is seared into our collective minds.

What the heck is going on?

Some things have occurred to me that have not been discussed and some that have. In no particular order:

1. It seems almost obvious that player mobility is hurting UConn rather than helping. UConn as a lower level independent, is being used as a training ground and they are unable to replace their losses to the portal with equal quality.
2. The psychological effect of not joining a P4 conference when it was built up as almost a sure thing throughout the summer. A resulting WTF attitude by the players after the letdown.
3. Rolling around in the back of my mind has been the thought that if this goes on much longer, HCJM may decide he has had enough of a no-win situation and just ask to be released from his contract. Guessing not the end of this season, but by the end of next season it would become a real possibility if this continues.
4. Like recruiting players, recruiting coaches is really tough at UConn. I am a little more tolerant of less than optimum coaching than most. But are we suffering from this? Hard to imagine that HCJM did not get first rate coaches, but UConn's football status may have affected quality. I am not qualified to judge, the comments here by others notwithstanding.
5. If HCJM did exit, who might UConn get? Almost certainly a successul FCS coach I would guess. Who else would come? Wou;d Bob Chesney up the road be a good match? I doubt UConn could beat Holy Cross right now.
6. Is the lack of bigtime NIL the problem? Feels like the players' expectations might have been higher and they are just mailing it in. Thoughts?
7. It is a little frustrating to think that UConn would be in the B12 now if they had stayed in the AAC and won a BB nattie. Of course the BB fans would argue that the nattie would not have happened had they stayed in the AAC. Personally I think that Hurley could have done it in the AAC, but that and a second mortgage will get you on the subway these days.
8. Also rolling around the back of my head is the factoid that the last UConn HC whose team started the season 0-4 got fired the next Tuesday ... nine days after his team came within 3 points of Michigan. [Sorry, this may not be quite correct, but the point stands.] That is not happening this year, but the situation does look very unfavorable.

Good points. Two outstanding (albeit older) HCPP and now HCJM haven't been able to produce a quality product at UC. Don't tell me it is their age, or that they don't have the knowledge to be successful. There are other factors at play here, and not sure the late great Vince Lombardi could have done better. $$$$$$ is needed in a big way to bring in assistants, and perhaps a new stadium on campus. I leave it to the experts on this site to fill in the blanks. HCRE did have some success, but even he left the ship in the dark of night. The "old guy" is mystified beyond belief. Not sure we could beat URI at this point. Hire Dan O as OC and QB coach would be a start...Thanks for all your great posts both Positive and negative.

 

[RSTuthill]

Well, I disagree on the stadium location but that is a minor point. Like everyone else here, I am scratching my head why play has been so bad. That first series against NCST had us all thinking that indeed UConn had turned a corner. Particularly going for it and making it on fourth down. Great surge by the OL.

And then suddenly JF started playing like Beaudry. Passes fluttering like a wounded bird. No holes for the running backs.

 

[RSTuthill]

The highest paid athlete in college is a female gymnast at LSU, some people say.

For her sex appeal. (I happen to be blunt on occasion.)

Not that Paige isn't beautiful, but the aggressive way she plays, walks the walk, and her outspokeness has gotten her the attention. Not taking a single thing away from her, just sayin' .... She is a LOT more than a pretty face. The substance is there too.

 

[Chin Diesel]

The highest paid athlete in college is a female gymnast at LSU, some people say.

"some people say".

that's a really odd qualifier for a statement which doesn't need a qualifier.

 

[UConnJim]

Looking at UConn from the perspective of a southern P4 school, nothing captures UConn more than the fact that it has a woman on their basketball team pulling down million dollar NIL contracts while the football players are getting next to nothing. To them, that pretty much says it all. "Those people are just different."

I don't think so, the top 3 NIL players at LSU are a gymnast and 2 women's basketball players.

The bigger issue is that the men's head basketball coach makes almost 2x the entire football staff and the women's basketball coach makes 2x the football coach. I wouldn't cut the basketball coaching salaries, but I would increase the football salaries.

 

[superjohn]

I don't think so, the top 3 NIL players at LSU are a gymnast and 2 women's basketball players.

The bigger issue is that the men's head basketball coach makes almost 2x the entire football staff and the women's basketball coach makes 2x the football coach. I wouldn't cut the basketball coaching salaries, but I would increase the football salaries.

We're not asking to be like LSU in football but what does this have to do with us being worse than all the G5 teams who pay the same as us or pay less than us?

What does it matter how much we pay Jim Mora? This board has said time and time again that Mora is an awesome coach.

 

[UConnJim]

4. Like recruiting players, recruiting coaches is really tough at UConn. I am a little more tolerant of less than optimum coaching than most. But are we suffering from this? Hard to imagine that HCJM did not get first rate coaches, but UConn's football status may have affected quality. I am not qualified to judge, the comments here by others notwithstanding.

Up and coming coaches want to go to a place where they can be successful and prepare for a better job. At UConn, being an assistant coach has not proven to enhance careers and we pay less than all the P5 schools. We are playing 3 to 4 P5 schools per year, why are we not think our peer group for coaching salaries are P5 schools? I think Mora has been an attraction for young coaches, but when a hiring mistake is made, UConn doesn't bite the bullet and move on quickly. Case in point is Spanos. We basically went without a DC last year because we were paying Spanos. Crazy.

Mora is a good coach and can attract talented coaches. Wouldn't you want him to be able to pay an OC and a DC $600k/year to attract a winner? I would.

 

[uconndogs]

The OP is very thoughtful, but I continue to be of a mind that what is happening in college athletics, especially football, is at the beginning stages of a complete transformation. I believe we have not really even begun to see the full impact of NIL. Major programs, in the P2 in particular, are going to build out NIL programs that will bifurcate college football between the haves and the have nots in a way we have never seen before. I doubt there is anything the NCAA can do about it and there would appear to be a scenario where some groups move away from that illustrious organization.

All of this is to say that I do think UCONN has structural issues, but in the current environment I think most programs do. Whether UCONN wants to compete in the world of NIL is certainly a reasonable question. I think NIL may the the catalyst for many schools to consider leaving college athletics at the highest level (think Ivy League). I think that's a perfectly reasonable position to have and it would not surprise me if schools like UCONN, BC, Syracuse, Stamford, Wake Forest, etc. decide the unabashed world of professional athletics is not for them - not compatible with their mission. Not tomorrow, but certainly within the next 5 to 10 years.

 

[uconnfan68]

"some people say".

that's a really odd qualifier for a statement which doesn't need a qualifier.

It was a guess. For all I know Texas is paying Arch Manning $100,000,000.

 

[UConnJim]

We're not asking to be like LSU in football but what does this have to do with us being worse than all the G5 teams who pay the same as us or pay less than us?

What does it matter how much we pay Jim Mora? This board has said time and time again that Mora is an awesome coach.

If we had hit on the OC hire and grabbed a decent QB or 2 in the portal, we are not having this discussion as we would have a decent offense and we would have been competitive in the first 4 games. We are very close to being competent with 1 hire and a decent QB.

So, if we look for a new OC, I guess we can take a risk on a young FCS OC, but wasn't that was Charlton was? Or, we can pay up for a proven lower level FBS OC who can bring a competent QB with him?

 

[KryHavok]

3. Rolling around in the back of my mind has been the thought that if this goes on much longer, HCJM may decide he has had enough of a no-win situation and just ask to be released from his contract. Guessing not the end of this season, but by the end of next season it would become a real possibility if this continues.

This is what goes through my mind. I read “ he’s not a quitter, he likes the area”. Doesn’t mean anything. When I heard him call UConn a horseshit program last week, yes, I appreciated his candor and frustration, but I saw the makings of someone saying this isn’t for him. I really hope I’m wrong, but I think he walks this year; there are too many obstacles to overcome and not enough immediate solutions. The more I see Mora, the more I think he’s a band-aid on a severed carotid.

The WSU coach said they don’t have any 5* or 4* star players, but they’re fighting, competing, ranked, despite getting stabbed in the back and front by all but OSU. They have the fight in them; I don’t see the fight in our boys. Is it a structure problem, or a heart problem, cuz I don’t see the passion on the field?

 

[RSTuthill]

If we had hit on the OC hire and grabbed a decent QB or 2 in the portal, we are not having this discussion as we would have a decent offense and we would have been competitive in the first 4 games. We are very close to being competent with 1 hire and a decent QB.

So, if we look for a new OC, I guess we can take a risk on a young FCS OC, but wasn't that was Charlton was? Or, we can pay up for a proven lower level FBS OC who can bring a competent QB with him?

Charlton was an FCS OC and then HC, wasn't he?

 

[UConnJim]

Here's another way to look at OC pay. The top 10 G5 offenses this year have OCs that make slightly less than $300k per year. Are they coming to UConn for the OC job for a 25% to 30% raise? No. So what are your choices:

1) FCS/D2/D3 OC
2) Retread OC
3) Promote an offensive position coach to OC who has zero or limited experience as an OC

UConn has tried all 3 approaches in recent years with the exception of hiring Lashlee who took a huge pay cut to come to UConn to prove himself out of Gus Malzahn's shadow.

Option 1: Charlton
Option 2: GDL, Cummings,
Option 3: Weist, Verducci, Dunn, Giufre

Why can't we try hiring a proven FBS OC with current success?

 

[RSTuthill]

"some people say".

that's a really odd qualifier for a statement which doesn't need a qualifier.

He/she just wasn't completely sure is all.

 

[zls44]

Looking at UConn from the perspective of a southern P4 school, nothing captures UConn more than the fact that it has a woman on their basketball team pulling down million dollar NIL contracts while the football players are getting next to nothing. To them, that pretty much says it all. "Those people are just different."

You might want to look up where the top NIL athlete in college athletics plies her trade, old man. Olivia Dunne. Try a google.

I hope LSU doesn't lose football players who can't deal with it. The poor things.

 

[UConnJim]

Charlton was an FCS OC and then HC, wasn't he?

Yes, but the point was his experience as an OC was at FCS Maine for 1 year.

 

[zls44]

The psychological effect of not joining a P4 conference when it was built up as almost a sure thing throughout the summer. A resulting WTF attitude by the players after the letdown.

The only people who actually thought this are on this message board.

 

[ZooCougar]

The only people who actually thought this are on this message board.

I don’t know what he is talking about. It was never built up as a sure thing.

 

[ZooCougar]

Yes, but the point was his experience as an OC was at FCS Maine for 1 year.

And it wasn’t like he set the FCS world on fire.