Is There Anything to Discussing the Health of Women's College Basketball? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Is There Anything to Discussing the Health of Women's College Basketball?

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Quality of play: is improving at a very solid rate. Try watching a WNBA game from the 00s vs now and there's no comparison. Everyone has a good perimeter shot now in the pros and you see much better A/TO ratios than you used to. Athletes are better and develop into very good players where that wasn't always the case in the past.

I think the number of good players is up too. You look at the SEC for example, and there's no question it's a down year, but individually there are some very good and dynamic players in McCowan, Howard, Cooper, Morris, R. Howard, Cunningham and Westbrook (among others). Lots of very skilled players around the country.

As far as spreading out talent and parity, it is still far behind men's basketball. The men's game has a wider spread of talent because the best players always leave for the draft which balances the playing field. Teams like Wisconsin for example keep players 3-4 years and players steadily improve and are experienced even if they are not as talented as the 1 and dones. They have a big advantage in experience and understanding the ebbs and flows of college basketball over the new guys, but the new guys obviously have a raw talent and athletic advantage so it typically evens out.

On the women's side, the best players consistently go to the best schools and stay there all 4 years. That's the biggest reason why we've seen teams like UCONN, Notre Dame, Stanford, Baylor, etc. stay around the top of polls because they almost always have the best players and usually they're usually somewhat experienced too. I don't see parity changing unless top players stop choosing powerhouse programs.

Coaching health is improving, big time. There are a lot of really strong coaches in women's basketball right now who have made their mark in the last decade including Muffet, Rueck, Schaefer, Staley, Mulkey, etc. I think aside from maybe Pat/Geno/Barmore/Tara, most of these "newly successful" coaches are stronger than the other previous "greats" likes Jody Conradt, Sue Gunter, Marsha Sharp, Kay Yow, Andy Landers, Jim Foster, etc. By and large the newer coaches benefit from better players, but they also run more complex offenses and their teams are just more enjoyable to watch. I also don't think there's any question that Geno, Muffet, and Tara are all much better coaches than they were 15 years ago.

The Olympic team is still so far ahead of anyone else in the world, so the health there is good other than that tournaments are pretty dull to most fans since the USA is so dominant. Traditionally strong countries like Australia, Russia and Brazil lack star power compared to previous decades.

Health of women's college basketball-attendance isn't great but coverage of games is much improved. You can see almost every game for any P5 program now via streaming or conference affiliated TV channels. I think it balances out. There also seems to be more coverage on major networks compared to in the past. Health overall is about the same IMO.

Health of the WNBA is poor IMO. Attendance is inflated due to freebies handed out, stands are consistently empty and the players overall seem displeased with pay and conditions. There seems to be a new president every couple of years, no new franchises in years and a few teams seem to be on the verge of folding (ex. the Liberty). The quality of play is by far the best it has ever been, but the league needs a drastic switch to make it another 10-15 years IMO.


Also, a lot of the complaints made above are very UCONN specific since UCONN plays in an awful conference. The competition is dreadful and it isn't exciting to watch a home team get slaughtered by the Huskies year in year out. When UCONN plays on the road against a team that has a chance of beating them, fans come out. For non-UCONN games, head over to the SEC and you'll see close game and more fans in seats. Head over to the Pac-12 and the quality of play is a lot higher. Same with the ACC.

Overall the health is strong in some areas, weak in others. More rivalries, upsets, and great moments in the Final Four like we had last year will help grow the sport.
Nice job!
Lack of competitive games and/or rivalries.
Maybe a stronger WNBA will have a dominoe effect for some of the other factors. Many people blame our lack of men’s soccer excellence on the MLS.
I’m referencing the Olympic team more regarding the influence it might have on women’s basketball around the world. We have had some huge stars- Candace, DT, Lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoopes, Sue, Dawn, Cynthia, etc. Seems like it would inspire the world. I always enjoy the women more than the men in the Olympics.
 
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I think he was referring to the men’s team fans leaving when the women’s game started

In my experience (1980s-2012) at our local college games: percentage of men at the men's games was 75%-80% with a large student section. Percentage of men at the women's games was at least 50% with a very small student section. There was a time in the 70s and 80s when the women outdrew men by 2:1.
It's not that way now as the women's program is in the tank.
I still do not understand why women don't attend.
 

HuskyNan

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In my experience (1980s-2012) at our local college games: percentage of men at the men's games was 75%-80% with a large student section. Percentage of men at the women's games was at least 50% with a very small student section. There was a time in the 70s and 80s when the women outdrew men by 2:1.
It's not that way now as the women's program is in the tank.
I still do not understand why women don't attend.
For my generation, we weren’t encouraged to play or even have an interest in sports. We were offered membership in the Girl Scouts, 4-H clubs (I was in a homemakers club :rolleyes: where we learned to cook and sew), or similar ”appropriate” activities. Sports were manly and that didn’t change until maybe the 1990’s. Heck, the women born 10 years before me were told not to be caught sweating, er, “glowing” in public. It’s changing but an evolution that’s still underway
 
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In my experience (1980s-2012) at our local college games: percentage of men at the men's games was 75%-80% with a large student section. Percentage of men at the women's games was at least 50% with a very small student section. There was a time in the 70s and 80s when the women outdrew men by 2:1.
It's not that way now as the women's program is in the tank.
I still do not understand why women don't attend.
Good one!
Because the girls like to go to the games to watch the boys? (Sorry if that’s sexist)
Like Field of Dreams, build it and they will come... People will watch an interesting and exciting product. That’s why people watch UConn women. The product must not have an appeal. Maybe that is what needs to be addressed. Why aren’t people attracted to the product?
I’m more surprised that young girls aren’t going. I guess it’s because their parents aren’t taking them. Come on kids- speak up!!
 
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Good one!
Because the girls like to go to the games to watch the boys? (Sorry if that’s sexist)
Like Field of Dreams, build it and they will come... People will watch an interesting and exciting product. That’s why people watch UConn women. The product must not have an appeal. Maybe that is what needs to be addressed. Why aren’t people attracted to the product?
I’m more surprised that young girls aren’t going. I guess it’s because their parents aren’t taking them. Come on kids- speak up!!

MD,
In the mid 80s there was a huge kids only section on pull out bleachers at our women's games. At least 100 age 3-8 kids (mostly girls). They were all given shakers and allowed on the court during breaks and halftime. Quite a pleasant memory for them, I would think.
I never watch a men's game anymore, but catch as many women's as I can.
 

HuskyNan

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Good one!
Because the girls like to go to the games to watch the boys? (Sorry if that’s sexist)
Like Field of Dreams, build it and they will come... People will watch an interesting and exciting product. That’s why people watch UConn women. The product must not have an appeal. Maybe that is what needs to be addressed. Why aren’t people attracted to the product?
I’m more surprised that young girls aren’t going. I guess it’s because their parents aren’t taking them. Come on kids- speak up!!
In the beginningof Huskmania it was the clever marketing of the players themselves of Rebecca, Jen, and Nykesha -the local girls - Carla, JJ, and Pam thatjump started the interest. People stopped them at the mall for autographs and pictures and charismatic Rebecca became the face of the program. That’s what marketing departments need to sell, the personalities because that’s what women who don’t normally watch sports will care about.
 
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In the beginningof Huskmania it was the clever marketing of the players themselves of Rebecca, Jen, and Nykesha -the local girls - Carla, JJ, and Pam thatjump started the interest. People stopped them at the mall for autographs and pictures and charismatic Rebecca became the face of the program. That’s what marketing departments need to sell, the personalities because that’s what women who don’t normally watch sports will care about.
Nice! Reminds me that one reason I like UConn so much is because I like those girls so much. The integrity! The commitment to excellence that they make! The camaraderie and togetherness the team exemplifies.
How many times I was touched by that HBO series. Remember the short piece about Saniya Chong and her mom. Awesome!
You know, the Temple women had much to be proud of yesterday. That little girl Butts was a tough nut. Everyone on both teams played hard and clean.
I think you’re on to something!
 
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MD,
In the mid 80s there was a huge kids only section on pull out bleachers at our women's games. At least 100 age 3-8 kids (mostly girls). They were all given shakers and allowed on the court during breaks and halftime. Quite a pleasant memory for them, I would think.
I never watch a men's game anymore, but catch as many women's as I can.
I’m a teacher, so I talk to kids anyway, but I asked a few youngsters about the game yesterday. They were excited and glowing about their UConn heroes. A teacher acquaintance buddy of mine was there with his 2 daughters, as a delayed Christmas present he told me. The older girl had a navy blue #33 jersey. My buddy’s from CT. The family was basically stoked, you could tell!
It’s not about us old farts arguing all the time. It’s about the youngsters playing the game 24-7-365 and going to the gyms to see their idols!
 

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Here’s a link to the NCAA report on women’s basketball attendance. Seems to be holding steady.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketball_RB/2019/Attendance.pdf
I would argue the game is growing as evidenced by the television contracts schools and conferences are getting for themselves as well as the streaming rights so MORE PEOPLE are seeing games now. This is especially impressive considering all the entertainment options that are out there.

There are 10 programs now I consider elite with regularly appearances in the top 10 year in year out that are would not be in expected to make a Final Four run:
UConn
Notre Dame
Stanford
Baylor
So Carolina
Maryland
Miss State
Oregon State
Louisville
Oregon

Texas and Tenn are getting great talent but come up short in coaching. Minor changes and these programs could be ready to join this group with some strong NCAA runs.

To me, WCBB is in infinitely better. Youth sport (HS) is disparate at best AAU is prolific in profile, unfortunately the WNBA is not a truly successful commercial endeavor but the talent is phenomenal.
 
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I would argue the game is growing as evidenced by the television contracts schools and conferences are getting for themselves as well as the streaming rights so MORE PEOPLE are seeing games now. This is especially impressive considering all the entertainment options that are out there.

There are 10 programs now I consider elite with regularly appearances in the top 10 year in year out that are would not be in expected to make a Final Four run:
UConn
Notre Dame
Stanford
Baylor
So Carolina
Maryland
Miss State
Oregon State
Louisville
Oregon

Texas and Tenn are getting great talent but come up short in coaching. Minor changes and these programs could be ready to join this group with some strong NCAA runs.

To me, WCBB is in infinitely better. Youth sport (HS) is disparate at best AAU is prolific in profile, unfortunately the WNBA is not a truly successful commercial endeavor but the talent is phenomenal.
That’s like 10 good teams in 7 different conferences. Makes for a boring regular season, January to March. What’s wrong with HS basketball. AAU for girls?
What’s the impact of the TV improvements on the sport? Besides us being able to watch the games? $ in the programs? Better gyms, practice facilities, travel?
 

DefenseBB

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That’s like 10 good teams in 7 different conferences. Makes for a boring regular season, January to March. What’s wrong with HS basketball. AAU for girls?
What’s the impact of the TV improvements on the sport? Besides us being able to watch the games? $ in the programs? Better gyms, practice facilities, travel?
In the 37 NCAA Tournaments 2 teams have won 19 combined titles and 3 more programs have won 2 each for 25 of 37. The 10 programs that can regularly have a great shot at Final Four is a HUGE improvement over the era 20, 15 or even 10 years ago. Within the P5 conferences there are now other strong programs but aren’t elite to really contend yearly for a Final Four or NC.
SEC see Mizzou, Georgia and Kentucky showing newer coaches doing well.
PAC12 has ASU and Cal who have solid results regularly
ACC has Florida State, NC State and Syracuse showing staying power
Big10, while devoid of consistent elite programs outside of Maryland, does show the best next tier of solid teams as Michigan State, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska with very solid coaches adding in Purdue, tOSU, Rutgers, Indiana who would contend well in any conference
Big12 is curious with good program Iowa State, WV
That’s 18 additional P5 teams. That seems like an improvement to me.

HS Basketball has been declining in participation for 12 years.

The revenue has mostly helped pay Head Coaches, better pay for assistants, more trainers for the teams, better WOMEN facilities which has helped improve the quality of play with better offensive flow IMHO.

So yes, I am doubling down on the WCBB health. The WNBA has an image issue but the USA Teams do not as their support and following has been high.
 
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I agree HS participation is down to the increased interest in volleyball.
 
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I agree HS participation is down to the increased interest in volleyball.
Is volleyball a winter sport? It's a fall sport here and a perfect lead up to "the real season"- basketball.
 
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College WBB is doing well in university-town schools where college athletics is the main sports entertainment in the area. It does poorly in the urban schools where it has more competition for attention. It's a good product - the quality of play and coaching has never been better - and for the sort of people that like this sort of thing, it's the sort of thing they like. But in a big city, it just isn't going to get any media exposure or social buzz - not if there is an NBA or NFL team to talk about. Gonzaga can do great in Spokane, Oregon State in Corvallis, UConn in Storrs, Tennessee in Knoxville, Notre Dame in South Bend . . . but Stanford seems doomed to always draw fewer fans than Montana. I don't see that ever changing - the sports market is fully saturated and competition for eyeballs is fierce.
 
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College WBB is doing well in university-town schools where college athletics is the main sports entertainment in the area. It does poorly in the urban schools where it has more competition for attention. It's a good product - the quality of play and coaching has never been better - and for the sort of people that like this sort of thing, it's the sort of thing they like. But in a big city, it just isn't going to get any media exposure or social buzz - not if there is an NBA or NFL team to talk about. Gonzaga can do great in Spokane, Oregon State in Corvallis, UConn in Storrs, Tennessee in Knoxville, Notre Dame in South Bend . . . but Stanford seems doomed to always draw fewer fans than Montana. I don't see that ever changing - the sports market is fully saturated and competition for eyeballs is fierce.
Super point. Aren’t most of the Big 5 power conference teams in those types of towns. You would think the ACC and Big 12 to name a couple would be wildly popular.
Well there’s SC and Mizzou tonight. That’s what it could look like.
In the cities, where are the HS and MS girls at the games?
 

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