Is there a feud between the B1G and ACC?

[dwalks93]

Ummm, FSU won't be marginalized, they will be playing in the SEC (or maybe even the Big12 if it gets a network). The Big10 and SEC are making way more than anyone else. One can argue FSU should be content with the huge amount of money they are generating between the ACC payout and their direct merchandising but why would they accept $20 million from the ACC when the SEC will play them $40 million. FSU's direct marketing remains the same regardless of what conference they are in.

Michigan is an anchor team in a winning conference (the Big10). Michigan will never leave the Big10 and why would they? FSU is a team, like Oklahoma. who is an anchor caliber team but is in a losing conference. The ACC can either figure out how to generate Big10/SEC type money or their desirable teams will move to higher paying conferences like the Big10/SEC.

GORs don't last forever and when they expire the ACC teams that can make more money will leave. The ACC is a winner on the playing field but a loser in the business arena. The ACC better gets its act together before their GORs expire or they won't be renewed.

 

[Matrim55]

Ummm, FSU won't be marginalized, they will be playing in the SEC...

Over Florida's dead body.

 

[dwalks93]

Yeah I've heard of "the unwritten SEC rule" no 2 teams in the same state (exceptions being Alabama and Mississippi) but if conference realignment has taught me anything it is money trumps all.

FSU is money maker and would earn its share + in any conference it joins. My guess is there are very few conferences who would not want to add FSU. SEC rules are great but the trump rule is cash is king.

The only question would be whether FSU would pay dividends for the SEC since UF is already selling the SEC network in a lot of Florida. What UF wants is less important than the pay out...

FSU would probably prefer to stay in the ACC but if the ACC is $25 million lower than the other conferences...well, see the trump rule above.

 

[pj]

SEC would probably like to finish at 16 teams with a presence in NC and Va; alternatively, ESPN has probably asked them to keep space open to take top B12 schools (OU and KU?) and keep them in the ESPN family / out of the B1G or Pac if B12 blows up.

Hard to see a scenario where ESPN and SEC relationship is intact and SEC takes FSU. FSU's loss would greatly weaken ACC while not doing much to help SEC. ESPN might not mind NC State and Va Tech going to SEC, since they have those states covered with UVa/UNC/Duke/Wake; and SEC would likely prefer those two to FSU given its network model.

 

[billybud]

The thing is...Florida, Alabama, Auburn, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, etc...have athletic departments that have been making $30 million per year more than FSU for some years...

 

[billybud]

LOL... Michigan and FSU aren't on the same side of the board in NCAA Monopoly.

(just messin' with ya)

True...FSU won two National championships since Michigan won a split decision NC with Nebraska.

No team has won more games the last 32 seasons (my son was born in September 1984)...and only one team (Auburn, very slightly) over that time had opponents with a better winning record. No team had a higher scoring margin over that time.

FSU has not had a losing season nor missed a bowl in that time. Michigan may play monopoly but FSU plays football.

http://www.cfbtrivia.com/cfbt_records.php?fry=1984&thy=2015&sortby=SM&sasrt=SM&allop=1&cres=1

(just messing with you...you can have the Top Hat)

 

[dwalks93]

I agree with your ESPN assessment of FSU. The ACC is currently a bargain for ESPN and the are paying far less for the ACC than what the SEC or Big10 Schools are getting. See link below

http://espn.go.com/college-football...917-million-total-revenue-2013-14-fiscal-year

No question ESPN wants to continue to underpay the ACC and wants the ACC to remain strong (which means keeping FSU.) However, within the ACC not all teams are created equal and FSU has disproportionate leverage and prestige.

If I am FSU I am reading the below link and asking why are we not getting this type money? So either FSU will move to a conference who will pay them market value or the ACC will need to pay FSU more than an ACC average share. The only other option is for the ACC to get it act together and starts earning SEC/Big10 money but that is a bridge too far for Swofford.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissm...e-in-college-sports/#2715e4857a0b58d53e02349e

 

[billybud]

If you look at the top 7 SEC programs in revenue....you'll see that TV money is at 40% or less of total athletic revenue.

The SEC programs could have a $20 million payout and still be rolling in the dough.

 

[billybud]

In 1991, I was lucky enough to travel to Michigan's Big House for the FSU-Michigan game. I was in awe of the 102,000 seat capacity stadium. FSU's 1991 capacity was a little over 60,000.

Michigan went undefeated in the Big Ten that year (Champs) and had a good team....so did we. Wide right at Miami killed us.

It was a good game for us....but before I traveled to Ohio State and Michigan...I had not been in stadiums seating 100,000. It was really an eye opener coming from the erector set....

The older traditional programs like Bama, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida...will probably always have an up on a program that is younger than I am.

Older, established alumni families, more donations, boosters, etc. However, FSU will slowly get closer over time...last month the school announced a $100 million gift. That has always been the area for the "old money" colleges.

 

[FDNY99]

If you look at the top 7 SEC programs in revenue....you'll see that TV money is at 40% or even less of total athletic revenue.

The SEC programs could have a $20 million payout and still be rolling in the dough.

The SEC only sponsors 9 men's sports and 12 women's sports. There are only 11 sports total that all 14 schools compete in. It's easy to see why those schools spend so much money on football. They don't have as many hands taking $ out of the bank account.

 

[BlueHen]

In 1991, I was lucky enough to travel to Michigan's Big House for the FSU-Michigan game. I was in awe of the 102,000 seat capacity stadium. FSU's 1991 capacity was a little over 60,000.

Michigan went undefeated in the Big Ten that year (Champs) and had a good team....so did we. Wide right at Miami killed us.

It was a good game for us....but before I traveled to Ohio State and Michigan...I had not been in stadiums seating 100,000. It was really an eye opener coming from the erector set....

The older traditional programs like Bama, Oklahoma, Texas, Michigan, Ohio State, Florida...will probably always have an up on a program that is younger than I am.

Older, established alumni families, more donations, boosters, etc. However, FSU will slowly get closer over time...last month the school announced a $100 million gift. That has always been the area for the "old money" colleges.

What does this have to do with UConn? Isn't there an FSU or ACC message board that you can post on?

 

[billybud]

Well others bring up the ACC and I discuss it from my unique perspective...and just perhaps UConn might have some kinship with a 1977 era FSU....kicking and fighting for recognition while coming off of 1-10, 3-8, and 5-6 seasons.


UConn aspires to join the big boys and so did FSU.


Besides. the demise of the ACC seems to be a reoccurring topic here and on Big 12 boards...and not on ACC boards...It is a UConn CR board thing.

 

[dwalks93]

The worst case scenario for UConn is the P5 conferences remain status quo. The primary factor that drove the last few stages of conference realignment, money, remains the driving force and income disparity could trigger a defection. An ACC or Big12 defection only can help UConn's situation...c'mon we are in the AAC, it is not a far fall from the bottom rung of the ladder.

There is a reason no team is looking to leave the Big10 or SEC. It is because they are financially winning conferences. The ACC and Big 12 made dumb financial choices and they are at risk of being raided.

Personally I dislike FSU. I blame them in large part for UConn not being in the ACC. FSU voted against us and they likely disproportionately influenced other ACC teams when they threatened to leave if the ACC did not take Louisville. That said, I can separate the personal from the professional and IMO FSU is a valuable program that could trigger a new era of realignment.

No matter how much money I make if a new job offers me another $20 million I am probably going to take it. At some point someone will offer FSU a raise. When that happens...game on for UConn

 

[tzznandrew]

True...FSU won two National championships since Michigan won a split decision NC with Nebraska.

Well, this isn't really what it's about, though. Michigan as an AD is on a different plane than FSU, UConn, and almost all other departments out there. A few football NCs doesn't change that.

 

[FDNY99]

Well, this isn't really what it's about, though. Michigan as an AD is on a different plane than FSU, UConn, and almost all other departments out there. A few football NCs doesn't change that.

Almost like a Fortune 500 Blue Chip vs a company doing a IPO

 

[CL82]

Well others bring up the ACC and I discuss it from my unique perspective...and just perhaps UConn might have some kinship with a 1977 era FSU....kicking and fighting for recognition while coming off of 1-10, 3-8, and 5-6 seasons.


UConn aspires to join the big boys and so did FSU.


Besides. the demise of the ACC seems to be a reoccurring topic here and on Big 12 boards...and not on ACC boards...It is a UConn CR board thing.

Mmm. WVU loves to talk about the demise of the ACC. I don't see that here much, if at all. What I do see is the comment that the ACC and Big 12 are the two weak sisters of the P5. They are.

Since the P4 seems inevitable, only one of them will survive. Right now it seems to me that the ACC is likely to be the survivor, but it is close enough that the UConn to the Big 12 could be enough to flip that result.

 

[billybud]

If it does go to a P4 (and the champs play in a play off)...the Irish will finally have to go somewhere.

And, since the P4 Champs will already have survived a 16 team conference championship game, I could see a weaning of the non P4 from the playoff.

 

[tzznandrew]

If it does go to a P4 (and the champs play in a play off)...the Irish will finally have to go somewhere.

And, since the P4 Champs will already have survived a 16 team conference championship game, I could see a weaning of the non P4 from the playoff.

That's just the sort of thinking that would ultimately minimize college football's appeal. You have to have potential upsets.

They should be generating interest by having every conference get a team in, and fill out to 16. Mirror the NCAAs. They're be a ton of interest, and you'd get some legendary upsets every now and then.

If they took top 16 (using CFP rankings for those in it), it would have looked like this:

If they just took two at large schools, based off CFP, you lose Notre Dame, Florida State, TCU, and Ohio State, and give the top four seeds a bye. There'd also probably be rules about what seeds can be to keep conferences apart and avoid rematches.

Regardless, that keeps everyone in the country involved, not just alums of those P5 schools that have won in the past.

 

[Stinger92860]

A day may come when we begin discussing reduced payouts or contraction. If the money reaches a ceiling or becomes less, will schools such as FSU support equal payments for Wake, etc.

As we all know too well, money and greed can make for interesting scenarios. We may see this soon in the B12 if the league agrees to give Texas more money per year to support a B12N.

 

[FDNY99]

A day may come when we begin discussing reduced payouts or contraction. If the money reaches a ceiling or becomes less, will schools such as FSU support equal payments for Wake, etc.

As we all know too well, money and greed can make for interesting scenarios. We may see this soon in the B12 if the league agrees to give Texas more money per year to support a B12N.

If you are talking ACC contraction without a network...with the performance of their teams on the football field and basketball court BC has to be in the immediate discussion to be one of the schools sent on their way.

 

[billybud]

FSU already doesn't support equal payouts for Wake.

"
ACC Commissioner John Swofford said that the league has had "significant discussions" about revising the league's current policy to distribute revenue generated by league members appearing in bowl games. Swofford also believes a change could come as soon as this bowl season.

As of now, league members split bowl revenue equally. That is likely a point of contention with schools like Florida State and Clemson that invest more dollars in football, represent the league in the biggest revenue-generating postseason games and are forced to split those dollars evenly.

Propelling change, Swofford said there is "a majority feeling in the room that we need to alter the postseason bowl distribution" among the league members.

Still, Swofford said the league will maintain some level of equal sharing, "but how we get to that point of an equal share will change." That suggests the league could look into ways to clear a team's expenses or supplement successful teams prior to splitting the pool of bowl dollars.

 

[FDNY99]

FSU already doesn't support equal payouts for Wake.

"
ACC Commissioner John Swofford said that the league has had "significant discussions" about revising the league's current policy to distribute revenue generated by league members appearing in bowl games. Swofford also believes a change could come as soon as this bowl season.

As of now, league members split bowl revenue equally. That is likely a point of contention with schools like Florida State and Clemson that invest more dollars in football, represent the league in the biggest revenue-generating postseason games and are forced to split those dollars evenly.

Propelling change, Swofford said there is "a majority feeling in the room that we need to alter the postseason bowl distribution" among the league members.

Still, Swofford said the league will maintain some level of equal sharing, "but how we get to that point of an equal share will change." That suggests the league could look into ways to clear a team's expenses or supplement successful teams prior to splitting the pool of bowl dollars.

There are more schools than just Wake that fall into this category in the ACC.....BC and Syracuse to name a few.

 

[dwalks93]

If it does go to a P4 (and the champs play in a play off)...the Irish will finally have to go somewhere.

And, since the P4 Champs will already have survived a 16 team conference championship game, I could see a weaning of the non P4 from the playoff.

Allowing only the P4 champions in the playoff would really hurt the playoffs appeal and thus the money it brings in. The NCAA wants to limit inclusion and select the prime match ups but it will never come clean and say that. Instead the NCAA has created a backdoor in the system without admitting the playoffs are a closed shop.

Notice there is a "playoff selection committee" instead of a computer system to pick the playoff teams This is so "important components" like Strength of Schedule and the "eye test" can be used to justify the committee picking who they want.

Currently teams in the G5 have no chance of being selected for the playoff but the NCAA will not say it. The first time a team like Houston goes undefeated they will get passed over for a 1 loss P5 champion. The quotes will be something like "Houston got a nice little team but if they had to play an SEC schedule they would be middle of the pack at best."

The NCAA wants the fans of the G5 team to watch the playoffs so it needs to make them believe there is a chance they could play in it one day. Much like conference realignment, the playoff is all about money and the first rule of greed is to deny greed is driving the process.

The only way I see the P4/5 champions getting an automatic bid is if the playoff moves to 8 teams. Then there would be some at large teams and thus "hope" for others.

 

[Stinger92860]

There are more schools than just Wake that fall into this category in the ACC.....BC and Syracuse to name a few.

Agreed, I just threw out one. Let's see if the BC alarms go off with the mention.

 

[billybud]

Well...if you think that big spending teams in conference are unhappy sharing with Wake Forest...wait until Ohio State, Texas, LSU come up 2nd in their conference and are left out for Western Kentucky and USF.

Basketball with 64+ slots in the tourney is so different than football would be with 16. Yeah, we like to watch the upsets while still knowing that the last non current P5 conference team (excepting UConn) to win a tourney was UNLV in 1990.

 

[tzznandrew]

Well...if you think that big spending teams in conference are unhappy sharing with Wake Forest...wait until Ohio State, Texas, LSU come up 2nd in their conference and are left out for Western Kentucky and USF.

The issue, of course, is short-sighted greed. All those teams lose out here or there to middling NCAAB teams, and they turn out okay. Hell, they thrive.

They aren't going to do it, but you get better viewership when you at least have the illusion that anyone can win the title.

 

[Stinger92860]

That's just the sort of thinking that would ultimately minimize college football's appeal. You have to have potential upsets.

They should be generating interest by having every conference get a team in, and fill out to 16. Mirror the NCAAs. They're be a ton of interest, and you'd get some legendary upsets every now and then.

If they took top 16 (using CFP rankings for those in it), it would have looked like this:

View attachment 11827

If they just took two at large schools, based off CFP, you lose Notre Dame, Florida State, TCU, and Ohio State, and give the top four seeds a bye. There'd also probably be rules about what seeds can be to keep conferences apart and avoid rematches.

Regardless, that keeps everyone in the country involved, not just alums of those P5 schools that have won in the past.

That's more playoff games than the NFL. I thought these guys were student athletes not paid professionals. Oh, my bad....

It's getting or gotten to the point where a free education does not cover the income they deliver. Some players should be making 7 figures. How many football players in the SEC who do not play professional football go on to careers based on their academic choices and performance? Why is it we rarely see academic suspensions anymore?

Sarcasm off.

 

[billybud]

The season gets much too long with 16 playoff games...the two finalists would play 17 games.....unless you cut everybody's regular season way back so that teams only played 10 games.

 

[dwalks93]

FSU already doesn't support equal payouts for Wake.

"
ACC Commissioner John Swofford said that the league has had "significant discussions" about revising the league's current policy to distribute revenue generated by league members appearing in bowl games. Swofford also believes a change could come as soon as this bowl season.

As of now, league members split bowl revenue equally. That is likely a point of contention with schools like Florida State and Clemson that invest more dollars in football, represent the league in the biggest revenue-generating postseason games and are forced to split those dollars evenly.

Propelling change, Swofford said there is "a majority feeling in the room that we need to alter the postseason bowl distribution" among the league members.

Still, Swofford said the league will maintain some level of equal sharing, "but how we get to that point of an equal share will change." That suggests the league could look into ways to clear a team's expenses or supplement successful teams prior to splitting the pool of bowl dollars.

Thank God for John Swofford. UConn needs realignment to continue and Swofford's leadership of the ACC is just incompetent enough to make it happen.

The leagues that are financially winning run their conferences like a joint venture (SEC, Big10, and PAC10). The conferences that are financially trailing tend to favor their anchor programs (B12 and Texas) and do not equally share revenue.

The Big East allowed a sweetheart deal for ND and it caused hate and discontent which contributed to the Big East's demise. A lot of the current friction in the B12 stems from a belief Texas is receiving disproportiate benefits. Missouri, Nebraska and TA&M all left the Big12 because they wanted to be an equal partner and not second class to Texas.

The ACC and B12 should realize they are making less money than the SEC/Big10 because they lack a network. The goal should be fixing this problem not reshaping the current pot to pay more to the influential teams.

FSU and Clemson are the ACC's big football players right now. But they are not the only ACC programs with options. Team like UNC, UVA, Va Tech, and GT are all potentially attractive to other conferences. The first time the ACC gives a portion of UVA's money to FSU the next call UVA will receive will be from the Big10. Only this time UVA will be a lot more willing to accept the offer. Hopefully when a UVA accepts the B10 offer UCONN will be going with them.

 

[billybud]

What has happened...

In the past, many bowl teams lost money going to the bowl while the stay at home teams reaped a profit. Bowl teams were forced to buy as many as 17,000 tickets at high prices that were undercut by Stubhub and the market and had uncovered expenses.

Now...the teams going to a bowl have expenses cut out for them and conference help with unsold tickets...a major improvement over conditions that perennial bowl teams had in the past. Miami profited by declaring themselves ineligible for a minor bowl...made more money than the teams going...that has been corrected.

A decent compromise.